USADA - Armstrong

[webvan]

Lance has kissed his legal remedies goodbye. I don't even see a legal 'hail mary' out there.

So the "notice" was just an idle threat then? Pathetic till the end!

Clearly since a Federal Judge said USADA had jurisdiction and now they've just made use of it, there's really nowhere else for him to turn, Human Rights Court maybe? Hehe...

 

[Robert21]

Just finished up listening to the Dan Patrick (sports radio talk) show. He interviewed Travis Tygart at the top of the hour then took several phone calls from his audience.

If this is represents the prevailing opinion, Lance will be bigger and more important than ever. Kind of hard to believe the machinations people will go through to continue to gleefully defend and accept a total fraud.

Really unbelievable.

Not really!

A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.

We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of ingenious defences with which people protect their convictions, managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating attacks.

But man’s resourcefulness goes beyond simply protecting a belief. Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his convictions then ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervour about convincing and converting other people to his view.

From When Prophesy Fails by Festinger, Rieken and Schacter (1956, p3).

 

[MarkvW]

+1

Amazingly USADA was not impressed by his "notice", what is he going to do nix, sue them?

who needs a clause? He's committed perjury during the deposition. That and he violated the foundation of every contract.

I think it will probably be handled swiftly and as quietly as possible because this is business and lawyers can eat up whatever claw-back they can get pretty quickly.

The settlement surely had the word "final" in it, probably multiple times. To take Lance down, SCA would have to establish fraud in the inducement of the settlement contract. And the language of the settlement agreement is vital to assessing risk.

We'll see, but it looks like the doper keeps the money on this one . . .

 

[TubularBills]

Originally Posted by Banana Army View Post
For British guys:

A dramatic day in cycling and tonight on 5 live Sport from 19:00 BST we will discuss the Lance Armstrong issue with Sunday Times journalist David Walsh, who has written a book on the American, Doug Ulman the CEO of the Lance Armstrong Foundation, and BBC Sport's cycling expert Matt Slater.

Should be interesting that.
Think you should be able to listen to that even if you are outside of UK.

You can try here

Works for me in US

Their talking about it now, leading into the show.

 

[BroDeal]

What's the reasoning for the 1st Aug '98 cut off ?

The USADA might have a witness that gave information about Armstrong's preparation for the '98 Vuelta.

 

[Pazuzu]

whither Jim Rome

Does anyone know if sports talk show host Jim Rome has had anything to say about this most recent development. I haven't listened to Rome in years, but in the past, due to his unbridled mancrush on Armstrong, he always gave Lance a pass, while he came down hard on other PED using athletes. Be interesting to hear what he has to say about his hero now.

 

[ManInFull]

On ESPN more informed populations have a wide margin:

CA: 57% Yes
MA: 62% Yes
NY: 61% Yes

It's becoming a Red State vs. Blue State question. The left-leaning states are more informed.

 

[ManInFull]

Does anyone know if sports talk show host Jim Rome has had anything to say about this most recent development. I haven't listened to Rome in years, but in the past, due to his unbridled mancrush on Armstrong, he always gave Armstrong a pass, while he came down hard on other PED using athletes. Be interesting to hear what he has to say about his hero now.

I haven't listened to the recording yet, but I doubt he gave him a pass. He's come around to our way of thinking over the past few years.

 

[DirtyWorks]

.. To take Lance down, SCA would have to establish fraud in the inducement of the settlement contract .

The USADA action should support the idea that the contract was fundamentally executed under fraudulent terms. I'm way out of my league here though, and this is probably entering the realm of "what is down to you is up in contract law."

I'm going to leave it there as I'm waaaay out of my area of expertise.

 

[Maxiton]

Daniel Benson is being interviewed on BBC World Service right now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/

 

[OldManThyme]

http://blogcritics.org/sports/article/lance-armstrong-a-lost-action-hero/

When was the last-time Lance could have possibly been considered an under-dog? early 1998? He was all about being top dog at all costs.

Is there a rider you can name who's been on an LA team that you can claim with 100% conviction that they have been clean throughout their career - before, during and after an association with LA? What riders do you feel are beyond suspicion, despite more and more proof to widespread doping?

 

[MacRoadie]

As has been said, before. That depends on the terms of the settlement but most likely not.

Not suggesting anyone is right or wrong, but it sure looks like SCA wasn't ruling out the possibility of taking action.

Certainly, a lot depends on the outcome, which is/was beyond their control, but one would assume they had reviewed what WAS within their control: i.e., reviewing the settlement to see if there was even any latitude to take action.

“We didn’t have any reason to believe this was coming, although we had heard some rumours,” he told VeloNation today. “There’s not much we can do right now, but we will watch this with interest. We will review this situation and if it looks actionable, we’ll certainly take action.”

SCA Promotions will monitor USADA case against Armstrong/US Postal Service

In other words, if SCA thought they were completely locked in by the settlement language (which they should be intimately familiar with), why bother even monitoring, never mind publicly stating that there was any possiblity of taking action?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Have written to media@usada.org to express my appreciation.
Also have written to media.europe@nike.com to inform them of my boycott.

Hope many will do the same.... Thanks

 

[aphronesis]

It's becoming a Red State vs. Blue State question. The left-leaning states are more informed.

And, what's the breakdown in terms of numbers of those states; and, how many of the left-leaning well informed will care?

 

[serottasyclist]

The USADA action should support the idea that the contract was fundamentally executed under fraudulent terms. I'm way out of my league here though, and this is probably entering the realm of "what is down to you is up in contract law."

I'm going to leave it there as I'm waaaay out of my area of expertise.

USADA sanctioning him does not establish fraud. Would have to prove that he committed perjury which would be very difficult short of something like straight up video footage of him grabbing a clearly labeled vial of EPO and injecting it into himself rearing its head. Not even USADAs 12+ witnesses would likely be enough -- I mean, there were witnesses at the SCA hearing that said he admitted to doping, too, right?

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Love the t shirt!

http://www.channel24.co.za/Movies/News/Lance-Armstrong-movie-in-doubt-20120824

I really hope this goes ahead in a year or two and they do it justice as long as LA doesn't earn anything from it!!

A guy I ride with a lot has one of Tyler's 'Believe' bibs, it says believe on the leg and it's frankly cool looking, I really hope a jersey for Lance comes out soon 'innocent' 'cancer' 'miracles' 'mom' something cool to give to my riding buddy would compliment the ensemble.

 

[DirtyWorks]

USADA sanctioning him does not establish fraud.

Why not? Is it a rules of evidence/fraud thing? I'm out of my league here, so be patient.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

It's becoming a Red State vs. Blue State question. The left-leaning states are more informed.

I can think of one Redstate judge appointed by a redstate Pres. who was informed well enough of the law to hammer his texas coffin shut.

 

[BroDeal]

From Hero to Zero

Lance Armstrong is the Great American Sports Cheat. Our greatest ever....

http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/st...t-against-usada-goes-from-hero-to-zero-082412

This one is harsh and to the point.

 

[Benotti69]

USADA sanctioning him does not establish fraud. Would have to prove that he committed perjury which would be very difficult short of something like straight up video footage of him grabbing a clearly labeled vial of EPO and injecting it into himself rearing its head. Not even USADAs 12+ witnesses would likely be enough -- I mean, there were witnesses at the SCA hearing that said he admitted to doping, too, right?

It is about whether he won 5 TdFs or not. Not whether he doped. If the regulatory bodies of the sport do not recognise Armstrong as the legitimate winner of the TdFs then SCA may have a case.

 

[MacRoadie]

And, what's the breakdown in terms of numbers of those states; and, how many of the left-leaning well informed will care?

Is Armstrong still banned for life from participating in any Olympic Movement Sport?

Just checking...

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Have written to media@usada.org to express my appreciation.
Also have written to media.europe@nike.com to inform them of my boycott.

Hope many will do the same.... Thanks

I've been boycotting Nike for 20+ years, not because of this or their child labor problems but just because every time I try one of their products it's cr@p. They can't get any less money or respect from me than they already do.

 

[Roland Rat]

We generally have round-the-clock coverage, with staff in Australia, Europe and both east and west coast US.

Susan

Must make the Christmas party difficult to organise.

 

[aphronesis]

And, what's the breakdown in terms of numbers of those states; and, how many of the left-leaning well informed will care?

Is Armstrong still banned for life from participating in any Olympic Movement Sport?

Just checking...

At the moment, yes. And, your point? I thought the jubilation tended toward exposure of fraud and reparation toward the "victims."

What do you think this momentous occasion signifies in the world at large? What are its salient aspects?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

USADA sanctioning him does not establish fraud. Would have to prove that he committed perjury which would be very difficult short of something like straight up video footage of him grabbing a clearly labeled vial of EPO and injecting it into himself rearing its head. Not even USADAs 12+ witnesses would likely be enough -- I mean, there were witnesses at the SCA hearing that said he admitted to doping, too, right?

Thats exactly what it does.

From the USADA press release:

(5) Assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up and other complicity involving one or more anti-doping rule violations and/or attempted anti-doping rule violations.

The original SCA case was settled because LA was still the winner of all those Tours - today he is stripped of that.