USADA - Armstrong

[Armanius]

There have been no denials by anyone about having spoken to USADA. Only denials were about knowledge of suspensions. So it is more likely than not that the leak is accurate as far as communications with the USADA.

It's too bad that the leak was done in the middle of the TDF. Clearly, whoever leaked the story did not have cycling's best interest in his/her mind.

 

[ManInFull]

Latest news, Hincapie and other's are denying the story and they aren't facing any suspensions.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...strong-witnesses-at-the-tour-de-france_227631

Maybe you should re-read the story. The only person who has denied anything is Vaughters. GH is basically doing a "no comment", which seems really strange if all or at least most of this story isn't true.

 

[benzwire]

How many of you guys think Levi will retire after this season? I know he hasn't said it yet, but I think after all this comes out, his crash earlier this year, and the fact he's almost a senior citizen, I don't see nothing gained by riding one more year. I bet he's done after this year.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The paper's source (Bruyneel) does not have complete information so he is guessing or completely making up the suspension details. Unfortunately for him, he was too stupid to take the statute of limitations into account.

Agree with this.
This article is not a leaked source - it is someone who has clobbered together a few known facts.

agree, no big surprise at all, just another confirmation of the names this board has figured long ago.

the surprise to me is 6 month deal which is probably somewhere in the rules but not directly in the wada code which referes to 1/2 of a 2 year suspension...

whatever, i am absolutely confident that the usada has obtained wada's legal opinion and concurrence to the deal. i am also confident that the uci were against the deal but faced with the odds, relinquished.

here's to sweeping cycling of the biggest fraud that exploited it !!!!

Agree that was the big suprise at first - however JVs comments and Brodeals theory that those riders are outside SOL could make sense.

Just FYI - the 6 months suspension does exist way down in 301 of UCI rules:

301. The extent to which the otherwise applicable period of Ineligibility may be suspended shall be based on the seriousness of the anti-doping rule violation committed by the License-Holder and the significance of the substantial assistance provided by him to the effort to eliminate doping in sport. No more than three-quarters of the otherwise applicable period of Ineligibility may be suspended. If the otherwise applicable period of Ineligibility is a lifetime, the non-suspended period under this article
must be no less than 8 years.

 

[Merckx index]

More from CN on Vaughters:

"This team, from the beginning, we said we would be very transparent about everything that happens on this team. At no point in time did I say I was going to disclose anything about my colourful past. I've made my point clear a multitude of times that with regards to the past and what happened ten years ago or more ago, my position has always been, and this is the position of the team in general, that if any anti-doping authority or cycling authority, WADA, USADA, UCI, federal investigators, has any questions regarding events that took place before Slipstream, anyone that's employed by Slipstream, especially myself, the obligation is to be 100 percent honest and transparent with those authorities. I take that at face value and we're going to live and die by that statement.”

However there's still no proof over which of his former teammates from the current peloton have testified for or against him. Zabriskie, Vande Velde and Leipheimer, Sky's Michael Barry – who seems to have escaped almost all press attention – have remained tight lipped.

To understand why one must look to the past. The last two decades are littered with the wounded who have attempted to clash with Armstrong – some have survived, some haven't: the Andreus, David Walsh, Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis, the latter who has been utterly ostracised by almost all parties in the sport. Vande Velde, Zabriskie and especially Vaughters are different though, they still have plenty to lose, their careers untarnished by suspensions.

Yet a public statement from Vaughters, or anyone else at Slipstream, admitting to have even talked with USADA, just as with the FDA last year, would be futile at this juncture.

A stupid remark, a glib jackass off the cuff comment could all be lethal and leave anyone neutered as a result. So while Vaughters and perhaps his riders empathise with the likes of Landis they must remain silent.

And with regard to this, from a story about the USADA case a couple of weeks ago:

...that athletes on the blood-doping program would withdraw their blood eight to 10 weeks before the Tour de France, wait for their body to replenish the red blood cells, reinfuse the stored blood, and repeat the process. “You reinsert the older blood, then withdraw the same amount, but this time you withdraw a little more,” the person said. The goal was to get a mixed population of red blood cells in the stored blood bag so that anti-doping officers wouldn’t notice a suspicious spike in the number of old cells. “Any introduction of blood shows a different population of red blood cells,” the person said. “They’ve been sitting in a bag for a month. It doesn’t make sense — a jump in aging red blood cells? If you reinfuse several times you get a count of this many old ones, this many new ones. It’s very balanced... It has a lot of precision and variables.”

I saw this before and was going to bring it up, but it makes no sense to me. It was apparently written by someone who doesn’t understand the science well. In the first place, there is no test in place for aged red cells—and certainly wasn’t in 2006, Landis’ last year—though there is research aimed at developing one. In the second place, the only way to keep the proportion of aged cells in your system low is not to store blood for more than a week or two. Once you withdraw blood and store it, the cells in storage start to age, relative to those in your body (which are part of the natural turnover process). IOW, you have to transfuse frequently, much more frequently than is needed just to ensure the blood is fresh (a month to six weeks). Transfusing this often would be very inconvenient, increasing the likelihood of getting caught, and I doubt riders do it.

 

[MD FACG FACP]

USADA responds: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...sses-can-lead-to-errors-or-intimidation.aspx/

Wonder if P&P will mention this today???...

Yep they just defended their boy. Why would they care, oh that's right it's called "bought and paid for". These two do a great job keeping the general public on Lance's side. Paul mentioned that this always comes out during tour time to maximize the effect, and adds "but for who?". Ummmm, no one said you had to mention it P&P....sooo it seems to me your role is to advance Lance's position and defend him.

 

[180mmCrank]

No one is denying anything or confirming. It's what one would expect at this stage.

UCI doing deals for testimony is definitely a little dodgy. Paul S is right to raise an eyebrow about this. AND Phil might be being a little to optimistic if he thinks anything will be "cleared up once and for all!"

This will run and run...


Oops they are on about it again... A statement is being read! Well at least they are trying!

T

 

[Cloxxki]

Surely most of the focus is on former teammates of Lance. There have been former soigneurs, personal assistants, etc. that have given accounts of what they've seen.

I often wonder if any of Lance's former love interests could have testified to what they observed. I would love for Kristin or Sheryl Crow to come forward, perhaps too much to hope for.

He'd likely secure their silence via some form of intimidation.

Don't forget, there are thusfar innocent children involved. Even crow may actually have been serious about being a part of their lives at some stage, and may feel compelled to not hurt them needlessly. Not a big chance they'll get to adopt the Gunderson name and get less dirt for their descent.
Beyond the SOL, Daniëlle Overgaag might have interesting pre-cancer info to share. She was a rider herself after all, and could care less about both Lance and his offspring. Just, her rep is also on the line. She married a Dutch favorite TV son, needs to keep low profile in this respect I am afraid.

 

[Berzin]

Who wants to bet Hincapie leaves the Tour before the three weeks are up?

 

[MarkvW]

Don't forget, there are thusfar innocent children involved. Even crow may actually have been serious about being a part of their lives at some stage, and may feel compelled to not hurt them needlessly. Not a big chance they'll get to adopt the Gunderson name and get less dirt for their descent.
Beyond the SOL, Daniëlle Overgaag might have interesting pre-cancer info to share. She was a rider herself after all, and could care less about both Lance and his offspring. Just, her rep is also on the line. She married a Dutch favorite TV son, needs to keep low profile in this respect I am afraid.

There is no reason for people who are not involved in cycling to get involved in this process. They can stay out of it and there is not a a thing anybody can do about it. I can't think of any sane reason why a person would want to get involved in this mess if they didn't have to.

 

[vcampbell]

Who want to bet Hincapie leaves the Tour before the three weeks are up?

And who lose have to change his avatar to this:

It can be vary with an "I love Lance" text.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Who wants to bet Hincapie leaves the Tour before the three weeks are up?

I don't think he is that kind of guy - he promised Cadel his help
and he'll stay on as long as he can help.

 

[Deagol]

..... More names may follow? .....

I wonder this too, since they originally said there were 10 former teamates and these guys account for 5. Who are the next five ?

 

[OctaBech]

I wonder this too, since they originally said there were 10 former teamates and these guys account for 5. Who are the next five ?

Two of them must be Tyler and Floyd.

 

[Armanius]

I wonder this too, since they originally said there were 10 former teamates and these guys account for 5. Who are the next five ?

We already knew about Landis and Hamilton. So the question is who are the other three?

Wouldn't it be quite interesting IF Contador is one of them?

 

[UlleGigo]

That d-bag Tan on SBS criticising USADA over the apparent 6 month suspensions for riders that are 'admitted dopers'.

This is scary. Surely this isn't the way this will play out. Not again.

 

[Hematide]

For your enjoyment, two tweets by Lance made a few minutes ago, exactly as today's stage was finished.

"So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear..."

"...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling.."

 

[Armanius]

Levi, "I'm not going to say anything. I'm not saying anything or denying anything."

Sure sounds like an admission that he did speak with USADA.

 

[Race Radio]

For your enjoyment, two tweets by Lance made a few minutes ago, exactly as today's stage was finished.

"So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear..."

"...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling.."

He had his chance. Could have got the same deal. Instead he chose the harassment route

 

[jae2460]

Maybe you should re-read the story. The only person who has denied anything is Vaughters. GH is basically doing a "no comment", which seems really strange if all or at least most of this story isn't true.

Vaughters only denied the suspensions. Vaughters, Hincapie, Leipheimer, Zabriskie, Vandevelde, none of them denied talking to federal investigators nor denied that they ever doped, saw Lance dope, etc.

If they never doped and never saw Lance dope or have any evidence about any of the allegations about him then I would think they could and would shout angry denials from the rooftops just as Lance has always done and is doing now. The fact that they are not doing so seems to indicate there is truth to the allegations. There would be no need to be secretive about a 100% denial of all allegations.

I think the problem is that if Lance comes clean himself now, he already perjured himself in that prior trial about his Tour bonus so he'd face criminal charges.

Whereas the others all were facing a situation in which they were faced with a choice of lying to federal investigators last year to protect Armstrong and themselves or coming clean with likely immunity from federal criminal charges. Plus, coming clean is the right thing to do.

My guess is that they all were honest with the feds and that the feds passed along that testimony to USADA.

But Armstrong has put himself in a tight corner he can't get out of.

But Vaughters, Zabriskie, Hincapie and the others all could and should be honest about what happened.

I believe Armstrong doped, transfused blood, etc. and that most of the peloton was doing the same during that time. Look at the names on the Tour podium during 1999-2005 and the years just prior and after that...

I believe most of the peloton doped before and after Lance.

I don't believe Armstrong invented doping or that his comeback from cancer to the top level of cycling is because he doped.

It is clearly wrong that Armstrong doped and that he has misled everyone--his lies are probably worse than his actions.

Eddy Merckxx doped and denied it but he's still the greatest rider ever to most people and probably always will be.

 

[UlleGigo]

For your enjoyment, two tweets by Lance made a few minutes ago, exactly as today's stage was finished.

"So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear..."

"...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling.."

Kimmage is right the guy is a cancer.

 

[Parrot23]

Chief LieStrong "scientologists" going after ex-members who dare to speak against the cult of "We might as well win". This is now pretty transparent.

 

[Stingray34]

That d-bag Tan on SBS criticising USADA over the apparent 6 month suspensions for riders that are 'admitted dopers'.

This is scary. Surely this isn't the way this will play out. Not again.

Tan is stuck on full ***; makes more mistakes than Phil and Thommo put together and is way, way up himself - talks about imagining himself sprinting alongside McEwan and that he and Thommo are the A-Team...yep, the a-hole team.

 

[Stingray34]

For your enjoyment, two tweets by Lance made a few minutes ago, exactly as today's stage was finished.

"So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear..."

"...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling.."

This crap is orchestrated by Lance - he's trying to destabilise the alleged witnesses and sabotage the Tour. Notice he doesn't complain about leaks when he's making them.

 

[mikkemus23]

For your enjoyment, two tweets by Lance made a few minutes ago, exactly as today's stage was finished.

"So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear..."

"...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling.."

lol, just as I imagined. So now he´s saying they all lied to be in TdF? C`mon, not even guys at slowbtch are that slow?