USADA - Armstrong

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Mar 18, 2009
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college said:
This usada life time ban for the doctors just proves the point that Lance is trying to make. It is a kangaroo court.
But College (really?), every cyclist with an international USA Cycling license agrees to abide by USADA rules, regulations and procedures - including their "kangaroo court". See thelicense application yourself - search for USADA. If he thinks it's an inherently unfair or unconstitutional process, then he shouldn't have agreed to it. No one forced him to be a professional cyclist. He might argue he had to agree to it in order to earn a livelihood, but then he should have been on the record about his reservations with the system. But, to the contrary, he only praised it. Until he was targeted by the USADA, AFAIK, Lance repeatedly praised what they did, and how they did it.

And the lifetime ban in this case makes sense, as the announcement explains, because of the severity of the charges.

In accordance with the WADA Code and UCI ADR, aggravating circumstances including involvement in multiple anti-doping rule violations as well as trafficking, administration and/or attempted administration of a prohibited substance or method, justify a period of ineligibility greater than the standard sanction, and as such, all parties involved have received a lifetime period of ineligibility for their anti-doping rule violations.

http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-usps7102012
 
Aug 3, 2010
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Clemson Cycling said:
Actually I believe cycling is far more of a joke than any of the others listed above considering they cannot even get legitimate champions for the sport's biggest crown. I think you answered your own question about golf. It is not really a size or endurance sport anyway.

Maybe you should do a little research about a certain Canandian doctor that was arrested for providing illegal blood transfusion in the United States. This particualar doc had a pretty high profile client by the name of Tiger Woods. (Addmitted by Tiger himself!)

Now back to the topic and away from the obfuscation.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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Given Lance's cronie's response on here, I'm changing my mind as to what the purpose of this lawsuit was. Here are the options that I see.

A) Legally destroy USADA - This is highly unlikely given that all of the precedent lines up against him and provided that all of the experts quoted in Bonnie Ford's article suggest that it's a total longshot. Lance knows this and so this was not his objective.

B) Drag out the process - The 80 pages of bulls*** fanboyism and results from junior swim meets in 1982, may have served this process if they had got a different judge, but this is just prolonging the inevitable. Was this effort really worth it just to attempt to delay, I doubt it.

C) Cast doubt as to USADAs legitimacy among Fanboys - This is clearly the goal and the clinic's fan of ball-gags is further trying to perpetuate that myth. This was a press release simply to rally the idea that once LA gets banned for life and stripped of tours that "It was a kangaroo court" and "USADA doesn't have legal standing to do that." Basically this was an attempt to create a rallying point so the scumbag can still swindle money out of victims of cancer for his own personal gain.
 
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Anonymous

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college said:
Usada is such a bad org that they would do these type of sanctions and suspensions during the tour. The unlawful amount of time they give the accused to reply paints the accused into a corner. “What ever your 100% looks like, give it.”

Oh my.

Lifetime sanctions handed out to really bad actors and you are worried about how this reflects on the tour?

Pathetic.
 
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Anonymous

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college said:
This usada life time ban for the doctors just proves the point that Lance is trying to make. It is a kangaroo court.

I'm dying to hear more. Please explain how this proves LA's point.
 
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Anonymous

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Clemson Cycling said:
You can understand why all 5 major sports leagues and the NCAA refuse to deal with these guys

Yep. Because they don't want to deal with all the positives Pro Football, Baseball and Basketball will produce.

After all, butts in seats and eyes on the tele is what these sports are all about... and they need to put a product on the field of play, at any cost.

Ain't it great?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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webvan said:
I can't see any reference in the letter to del Moral, Ferrari or Marti not responding?
That's an assumption. Either they didn't respond, or they responded saying they accept the charges. The former is much more likely than the latter, but it really doesn't matter which it was.

What we know is that they did not respond with a request for an extension or a denial of the charges and a request for a hearing.
 
Jun 18, 2012
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college said:
This usada life time ban for the doctors just proves the point that Lance is trying to make. It is a kangaroo court.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it isn't. Just because you don't understand the rules of a sanctioning body doesn't mean it is a "kangaroo court". Marion Jones said the same thing, ask her how that went.

Lance can go to arbitration, he gets to agree to the arbitrator, he can present his own evidence. Lance agreed to these rules, his own manager wrote them! Now he wants to move the goalpost because he thought he controlled everyone...lol....he's DONE.
 
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Anonymous

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QuickStepper said:
Back on the topic of the Armstrong lawsuit:

It occurred to me in reading through the Complaint (the one dismissed yesterday by Judge Sparks) and the Motion for TRO, along with the Declaration of Mr. Herman submitted in support of that TRO application, there are some really huge, gaping holes in the plaintiff's presentation, but one that is just too large to overlook. Forget about questions of technical rules of pleading, never mind the inflammatory rhetoric, or all of the other potential deficiencies and distractions contained in the documents. There is one very important piece of evidence that is missing in all of the plaintiff's submissions and that is this: There is no declaration from Lance Armstrong. Zip. Nada. Nil. None.

A complaint in federal court is not signed by the plaintiff under penalty of perjury (as it can be in some state courts, and thus serve the same function on a TRO application as a declaration or affidavit). In federal court, one must submit sworn declarations, signed under penalty of perjury, otherwise, the application is without any evidentiary basis.

The only declaration submitted is that of Mr. Herman. He's really not a percipient witness to anything. He's Armstrong's lawyer, nothing more and nothing less. He's not the one who should be declaring to the facts in support of the TRO, or the potential harm that Armstrong will suffer if the TRO isn't granted. Nope, that ought to be (and in any ordinary civil case would be) the plaintiff himself. In any other case, you'd see a declaration from the plaintiff setting forth the facts of the dispute, the facts entitling the plaintiff to the extraordinary equitable remedy that is a TRO, and the immediate and irreparable harm that the plaintiff will suffer if the TRO isn't granted.

But that's not here, and that's what's missing, at least in my view, from these papers.

I don't know who all of these guys are that have their names on these pleadings, but didn't anyone consider the most basic premise of all? The premise being that in order to grant the relief sought on a temporary, pendente lite, emergency basis, the judge needs evidence upon which to base a finding that a plaintitf is entitled to the extraordinary relief of a temporary restraining order. Without evidence, all the judge has in front of him is a bunch of pieces of paper without any real foundation. .

Most of the exhibits attached to Herman's declaration are not self-effectuating documents. They really aren't a proper subject for a request for judicial notice, and without a proper foundation (i.e., a witness with personal knowledge attesting to what the documents are and how they were prepared, etc.,) they are inadmissible hearsay. Most of the documents attached consist of the same sorts of "history" of Lance's disputes with the USADA, **** Pound, etc.. By and large, these documents really don't have any proper foundation laid for their use in this case. No doubt USADA's lawyers will object to them being considered by the Court if, as and when there is a hearing.

Really, I just can't believe that on an issue this important, Lance's attorneys wouldn't have said, "Hey, Lance, we know you don't want to say anything under oath unless you have to, but this is that time. You know that rainy day you've been saving up for? Well, it's pouring."

If Judge Sparks is who we all think he is, based on all of the reports that I've read of him, he doesn't suffer foolish lawyers lightly. He also won't subscribe to the "Here it 'tis" rule of evidence --- which is a trick that sloppy lawyers use quite often, pulling a document out of their briefcases, laying it in front of a witness and just telling the court what the document says. Often, opposing lawyers are distracted and forget that there's no foundation laid for the document, and often, trial judges forget as well. Some judges say that "everything is admissible unless the other side makes a timely objection" and thus the "Here it 'tis" rule of evidence sometimes finds traction.

But I don't think that's going to be the case here. I think Judge Sparks is a guy who asks really simple, fundamental questions. "Do I have jurisdiction to hear this case?" "What evidence has been submitted that supports the plaintitff's claims and the request for extraordinary temporary injunctive relief?"

Assuming Lance's lawyers get over the hurdle that Judge Sparks set up for them yesterday, the next thing they ought to re-consider is the decision to go without any declaration from the one person who is supposed to be at the center of all of this, i.e., Lance Armstrong.

If they just re-file the Complaint without also re-filing the TRO Motion and supporting documents, I think they're probably just wasting Armstrong's money, and everyone's time.

That is some smokin' analysis right there. Well done.
 
Mar 22, 2010
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Clemson Cycling said:
You can understand why all 5 major sports leagues and the NCAA refuse to deal with these guys

Probably for the same reason the New York Yankees bar Reggie Jackson from interacting with the team. They'd rather win dirty than lose clean. They don't care how, only how many. It's about money. Integrity just complicates matters.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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PedalPusher said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it isn't. Just because you don't understand the rules of a sanctioning body doesn't mean it is a "kangaroo court". Marion Jones said the same thing, ask her how that went.

Lance can go to arbitration, he gets to agree to the arbitrator, he can present his own evidence. Lance agreed to these rules, his own manager wrote them! Now he wants to move the goalpost because he thought he controlled everyone...lol....he's DONE.

"I am not going to engage in the United States Anti-Doping Agency’s secret kangaroo court. "

USADA bans Marion Jones for 2 years

Track star Marion Jones sentenced to 6 months
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Ninety5rpm said:
But College (really?), every cyclist with an international USA Cycling license agrees to abide by USADA rules, regulations and procedures - including their "kangaroo court". See thelicense application yourself - search for USADA. If he thinks it's an inherently unfair or unconstitutional process, then he shouldn't have agreed to it. No one forced him to be a professional cyclist. He might argue he had to agree to it in order to earn a livelihood, but then he should have been on the record about his reservations with the system. But, to the contrary, he only praised it. Until he was targeted by the USADA, AFAIK, Lance repeatedly praised what they did, and how they did it.

And the lifetime ban in this case makes sense, as the announcement explains, because of the severity of the charges.



http://www.usada.org/media/sanction-usps7102012

Not to mention LA's boy Stapleton was front and center in the formation of the USADA and it's rules.

To complain that it's a "kangaroo court" is offensive to kangaroos everywhere. Surely we can all agree on that.
 
Aug 10, 2010
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I think today is huge. Now USADA has found 3 people have participated in a massive and organized doping conspiracy at USPS during the full extent of the USPS-Discovery-Shack era.

The media lawyers who shackle the reporters are now going to be a lot more comfortable with negative pieces about Armstrong and USPS.

The Oprah moment gets closer.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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Quick Stepper,

First of all, thanks for your analysis as it further proves that they aren't interested in getting a TRO, they are only interested in the press release they got by applying for it.

However I disagree on his lawyers encouraging Lance to perjure himself. I'm sure His Arrogance has no reservations about perjuring himself, but his lawyers have strictly advised against it. I believe they could be disbarred if they are found to have encouraged a client to commit perjury. I would imagine they advised against filing this motion because they probably knew it would have no legal impact, but were told that it was "their jobs" to do it, and they complied on the grounds that it didn't include any perjurious statements.
 
Jul 18, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
Yep. Because they don't want to deal with all the positives Pro Football, Baseball and Basketball will produce.

After all, butts in seats and eyes on the tele is what these sports are all about... and they need to put a product on the field of play, at any cost.

Ain't it great?

+1 they don't give a crap about players health, sport or fair play. It's all business, it's all about the money. They don't want some independent anti-doping agency potentially screwing with the bottom line and interfering in any way with their ability to run their business any way they want.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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DomesticDomestique said:
Given Lance's cronie's response on here, I'm changing my mind as to what the purpose of this lawsuit was. Here are the options that I see.

A) Legally destroy USADA - This is highly unlikely given that all of the precedent lines up against him and provided that all of the experts quoted in Bonnie Ford's article suggest that it's a total longshot. Lance knows this and so this was not his objective.

B) Drag out the process - The 80 pages of bulls*** fanboyism and results from junior swim meets in 1982, may have served this process if they had got a different judge, but this is just prolonging the inevitable. Was this effort really worth it just to attempt to delay, I doubt it.

C) Cast doubt as to USADAs legitimacy among Fanboys - This is clearly the goal and the clinic's fan of ball-gags is further trying to perpetuate that myth. This was a press release simply to rally the idea that once LA gets banned for life and stripped of tours that "It was a kangaroo court" and "USADA doesn't have legal standing to do that." Basically this was an attempt to create a rallying point so the scumbag can still swindle money out of victims of cancer for his own personal gain.
Yep, C. And that job is done. So, again, no reason to refile.

By the end of the week the victims will not remember the promise to refile (if they ever knew about), and will be gladly signing checks to their hero.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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DomesticDomestique said:
Quick Stepper,

First of all, thanks for your analysis as it further proves that they aren't interested in getting a TRO, they are only interested in the press release they got by applying for it.

However I disagree on his lawyers encouraging Lance to perjure himself. I'm sure His Arrogance has no reservations about perjuring himself, but his lawyers have strictly advised against it. I believe they could be disbarred if they are found to have encouraged a client to commit perjury. I would imagine they advised against filing this motion because they probably knew it would have no legal impact, but were told that it was "their jobs" to do it, and they complied on the grounds that it didn't include any perjurious statements.

Yep, yep and yep, all strengthening my prediction that he will not refile the lawsuit against the USADA in Federal court. They've got nothin'.
 
Apr 17, 2009
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QuickStepper said:
Back on the topic of the Armstrong lawsuit:

It occurred to me in reading through the Complaint (the one dismissed yesterday by Judge Sparks) and the Motion for TRO, along with the Declaration of Mr. Herman submitted in support of that TRO application, there are some really huge, gaping holes in the plaintiff's presentation, but one that is just too large to overlook. Forget about questions of technical rules of pleading, never mind the inflammatory rhetoric, or all of the other potential deficiencies and distractions contained in the documents. There is one very important piece of evidence that is missing in all of the plaintiff's submissions and that is this: There is no declaration from Lance Armstrong. Zip. Nada. Nil. None.

A complaint in federal court is not signed by the plaintiff under penalty of perjury (as it can be in some state courts, and thus serve the same function on a TRO application as a declaration or affidavit). In federal court, one must submit sworn declarations, signed under penalty of perjury, otherwise, the application is without any evidentiary basis.

The only declaration submitted is that of Mr. Herman. He's really not a percipient witness to anything. He's Armstrong's lawyer, nothing more and nothing less. He's not the one who should be declaring to the facts in support of the TRO, or the potential harm that Armstrong will suffer if the TRO isn't granted. Nope, that ought to be (and in any ordinary civil case would be) the plaintiff himself. In any other case, you'd see a declaration from the plaintiff setting forth the facts of the dispute, the facts entitling the plaintiff to the extraordinary equitable remedy that is a TRO, and the immediate and irreparable harm that the plaintiff will suffer if the TRO isn't granted.

But that's not here, and that's what's missing, at least in my view, from these papers.

I don't know who all of these guys are that have their names on these pleadings, but didn't anyone consider the most basic premise of all? The premise being that in order to grant the relief sought on a temporary, pendente lite, emergency basis, the judge needs evidence upon which to base a finding that a plaintitf is entitled to the extraordinary relief of a temporary restraining order. Without evidence, all the judge has in front of him is a bunch of pieces of paper without any real foundation. .

Most of the exhibits attached to Herman's declaration are not self-effectuating documents. They really aren't a proper subject for a request for judicial notice, and without a proper foundation (i.e., a witness with personal knowledge attesting to what the documents are and how they were prepared, etc.,) they are inadmissible hearsay. Most of the documents attached consist of the same sorts of "history" of Lance's disputes with the USADA, **** Pound, etc.. By and large, these documents really don't have any proper foundation laid for their use in this case. No doubt USADA's lawyers will object to them being considered by the Court if, as and when there is a hearing.

Really, I just can't believe that on an issue this important, Lance's attorneys wouldn't have said, "Hey, Lance, we know you don't want to say anything under oath unless you have to, but this is that time. You know that rainy day you've been saving up for? Well, it's pouring."

If Judge Sparks is who we all think he is, based on all of the reports that I've read of him, he doesn't suffer foolish lawyers lightly. He also won't subscribe to the "Here it 'tis" rule of evidence --- which is a trick that sloppy lawyers use quite often, pulling a document out of their briefcases, laying it in front of a witness and just telling the court what the document says. Often, opposing lawyers are distracted and forget that there's no foundation laid for the document, and often, trial judges forget as well. Some judges say that "everything is admissible unless the other side makes a timely objection" and thus the "Here it 'tis" rule of evidence sometimes finds traction.

But I don't think that's going to be the case here. I think Judge Sparks is a guy who asks really simple, fundamental questions. "Do I have jurisdiction to hear this case?" "What evidence has been submitted that supports the plaintitff's claims and the request for extraordinary temporary injunctive relief?"

Assuming Lance's lawyers get over the hurdle that Judge Sparks set up for them yesterday, the next thing they ought to re-consider is the decision to go without any declaration from the one person who is supposed to be at the center of all of this, i.e., Lance Armstrong.

If they just re-file the Complaint without also re-filing the TRO Motion and supporting documents, I think they're probably just wasting Armstrong's money, and everyone's time.

Excellent post!

The fact that the declaration was from Herman struck me as odd. I would hope the main reason why they wouldn't have Lance execute a declaration is that they know the complaint and application are a pure BS publicity stunt. Several of the claims have been easily debunked here. Why would you set your client up for a perjury claim?

EDIT: Looks like DomesticDomestique beat me to it. :)
 
Aug 30, 2010
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MarkvW said:
I think today is huge. Now USADA has found 3 people have participated in a massive and organized doping conspiracy at USPS during the full extent of the USPS-Discovery-Shack era.

The media lawyers who shackle the reporters are now going to be a lot more comfortable with negative pieces about Armstrong and USPS.

The Oprah moment gets closer.

Not so sure Lance would go on Oprah. She doesn't look at all like his mother.
 
Jan 29, 2010
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Mr.DNA said:
After reading Judge Sparks' dismissal, I can only conclude that Armstrong's filing was a waste of my tax dollars.

The court's valuable time could have been spent on less frivolous matters.

Brilliant! :D
 
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