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Maybe we could stream it to the Web? https://twitter.com/NealKarlinsky
Judge in Armstrong hearing says NO decision today. Attorneys must file further arguments in a week. And so the doping wheel slowly turns...
Judge in Armstrong hearing says NO decision today. Attorneys must file further arguments in a week. And so the doping wheel slowly turns...
- Aug 13, 2009
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Jack Ruby said:
Jeez, the judge wants more paper? This may require yet another extension by the USADA.
Hailliburton:
So will not require another extension, unless LA appeals a decision that goes against him. And will USADA give him an extension then?
I never understood why they couldn't provide some details of when, where, how often, without providing names. FHS, a typical charging letter presents a very specific positive test, so much quantity of such-and-such substance on a particular date. This letter should be held to a somewhat similar standard. Obviously they can't present a positive test wrt witness testimony, but they need to provide some specific dates and other specific information about what happened.
P.S. - Does Pat "last 10 to 15 years" McQuaid know that WADA has not even existed for 15 years?
So will not require another extension, unless LA appeals a decision that goes against him. And will USADA give him an extension then?
I never understood why they couldn't provide some details of when, where, how often, without providing names. FHS, a typical charging letter presents a very specific positive test, so much quantity of such-and-such substance on a particular date. This letter should be held to a somewhat similar standard. Obviously they can't present a positive test wrt witness testimony, but they need to provide some specific dates and other specific information about what happened.
P.S. - Does Pat "last 10 to 15 years" McQuaid know that WADA has not even existed for 15 years?
- Mar 18, 2009
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MarkvW said:
It might be time to whack Armstrong big time. A detailed charging doc with lots of juicy details would get lots of media coverage. It would make it very uncomfortable for McQuaid to continue with his interference. McQuaid and the UCI could become a public embarrassment to the IOC.
- Aug 13, 2009
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- Feb 24, 2011
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I hope the group will tolerate a random comment from a newb - but I'm reminded of a quote from the move Se7en in which Detectives Mills and Somerset discuss John Doe and Somerset says,
"If we catch John Doe and he turns out to be the devil, I mean if he's Satan himself, that might live up to our expectations, but he's not the devil. He's just a man."
This latest delay feeds my concern that this will have an anti-climactic ending. Even if the judge decides USADA retains jurisdiction and Wonderboy elects to go through arbitration and loses, it will not be enough to satisfy me for all the sh*t he has done to some very good people and the sport I love. His supporters will turn him into a martyr, Livestrong will remain a front and propaganda machine for him, he will remain wealthy on Nike sponsorship alone if nothing else as they clearly have no scruples in who they endorse, and he will be loved by that certain fraction of the population who will either deny the USADA's findings or justify his actions. He can't be punished sufficiently at this point, and the Judge's inability to see through his attorney's smokescreen at this point is such a disheartening portent...
That said - I still want (need) that MF to go down in a public court to preserve my hope that there is some (any) sanity left in the sport and those that care about it.
"If we catch John Doe and he turns out to be the devil, I mean if he's Satan himself, that might live up to our expectations, but he's not the devil. He's just a man."
This latest delay feeds my concern that this will have an anti-climactic ending. Even if the judge decides USADA retains jurisdiction and Wonderboy elects to go through arbitration and loses, it will not be enough to satisfy me for all the sh*t he has done to some very good people and the sport I love. His supporters will turn him into a martyr, Livestrong will remain a front and propaganda machine for him, he will remain wealthy on Nike sponsorship alone if nothing else as they clearly have no scruples in who they endorse, and he will be loved by that certain fraction of the population who will either deny the USADA's findings or justify his actions. He can't be punished sufficiently at this point, and the Judge's inability to see through his attorney's smokescreen at this point is such a disheartening portent...
That said - I still want (need) that MF to go down in a public court to preserve my hope that there is some (any) sanity left in the sport and those that care about it.
- Aug 13, 2009
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Judge gave both sides a week to file any additional paperwork. Said it would not take him long to issue his ruling
- Aug 13, 2009
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COMO CYCO said:
This delay is normal and expected. As I wrote early today few expected the judge to issue his position today. Giving them a week to file anything additional is normal and a written decision by Sparks is normally what he does
- May 26, 2010
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COMO CYCO said:
I think you are wrong. If Armstrong loses, he is the biggest sporting fraud ever. The media will run with this story for a long time. He will have umpteen lawsuits against him by sponsors, SCA, newspapers etc. This will be front page news. LieStrong will have to change to a new organisation or kill the parent that gave birth to it. The Fed Case will likely be reopened.
This will be big when he loses.
- Feb 24, 2011
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Race Radio said:
Thanks RR, and to everyone else contributing to The Clinic. I've long followed this group - and when I first found it - felt so relieved to know I wasn't alone or crazy for the disgust I felt for Wonderboy - as I am surrounded by people in my profession who adore him. I won't clutter up the discussion anymore - but felt the need to thank you guys for all the time and energy you invest to this discussion. It's so important that this side of the argument maintains its voice.
CC
- Jul 3, 2009
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I know very little about American law but to me this has played into Armstrongs hands, any additional info USADA supply to the court will be open to scrutiny by Armstrongs lawyers and help them to have time to discredit them publicly! To me this delay sounds like Sparks has not made up his mind despite what many of us here think is a no brainer, has Sparks been nobbled? It wouldn't surprise me.
So here are the possibilities next week as I understand them. Hope some lawyers weigh in:
A) Judge rules against LA, case dismissed
1) LA appeals – will USADA grant him another extension?
2) LA goes to arbitration – still on for November?
3) LA accepts sanctions and starts campaign to convince followers of USADA’s illegitimacy – will UCI help him here?
4) anything else he could do?
B) Judge rules against USADA - I’m a little unclear what happens or can happen in this situation, but another poster says they can’t appeal
1) If Judge rules UCI has jurisdiction, does this mean USADA must either drop the case or turn it over to UCI, wait for their decision before appealing it?
2) Can the Judge rule that USADA has jurisdiction, but is a state actor and must provide due process and other benefits in the same way a normal legal procedure would?
3) what other possible outcomes could there be associated with a ruling against USADA?
Are there other possible outcomes than a clear ruling for one party and against the other?
A) Judge rules against LA, case dismissed
1) LA appeals – will USADA grant him another extension?
2) LA goes to arbitration – still on for November?
3) LA accepts sanctions and starts campaign to convince followers of USADA’s illegitimacy – will UCI help him here?
4) anything else he could do?
B) Judge rules against USADA - I’m a little unclear what happens or can happen in this situation, but another poster says they can’t appeal
1) If Judge rules UCI has jurisdiction, does this mean USADA must either drop the case or turn it over to UCI, wait for their decision before appealing it?
2) Can the Judge rule that USADA has jurisdiction, but is a state actor and must provide due process and other benefits in the same way a normal legal procedure would?
3) what other possible outcomes could there be associated with a ruling against USADA?
Are there other possible outcomes than a clear ruling for one party and against the other?
- Aug 9, 2010
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I don't really see bad news here.
It would have been surprising if he had announced a decision this quickly...then Armstrong' s legal bunch could have charged that it was a rush job and could spin that to their whining favor.
It sounds like it is definitely on the right track...flesh it out..more info and then in for the kill.
It would have been surprising if he had announced a decision this quickly...then Armstrong' s legal bunch could have charged that it was a rush job and could spin that to their whining favor.
It sounds like it is definitely on the right track...flesh it out..more info and then in for the kill.
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