USADA - Bruyneel, Celaya, Garcial del Moral, Ferrari, Marti

[Benotti69]

Of course he will turn up. He requested arbitration and they have clearly negotiated a venue, and have jointly decided on the third arbitrator

Then one has to wonder at his thinking, is he going to try and throw Armstrong under the bus? Doubtful. Is he going to make a deal? Why not? Plenty like Tinkhoff to give Bruyneel a job in the future.

 

[Morbius]

Then one has to wonder at his thinking

He could argue the Statue of Limitations. According to the US judge, the arbitration hearing is the right place to argue that, with probable appeals in both US and to CAS.

 

[thehog]

Then one has to wonder at his thinking, is he going to try and throw Armstrong under the bus? Doubtful. Is he going to make a deal? Why not? Plenty like Tinkhoff to give Bruyneel a job in the future.

He's going to throw the entire world under the bus bar Armstrong.

London is a good place to be.

 

[MarkvW]

It will be expensive to fly all the co-conspirators to London, plus the cost of expert testimony. And, we must remember that it was a conspiracy involving team officials, employees, doctors, and elite cyclists of the USPS and Discovery Channel Cycling Teams. That's a lot of expense.

Be interesting if USADA tries to stick the cost on Bruyneel, et al., if USADA wins.

 

[wirral]

Witnesses in the case to fly to London??

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usada-requests-hamilton-and-others-as-witnesses-in-bruyneel-case

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Witnesses in the case to fly to London??

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usada-requests-hamilton-and-others-as-witnesses-in-bruyneel-case

I guess they could take one of these.

but guys such as Hamilton would need to dope big time again to make it in time.

As for JB, well hes going down, only question is how many will go with him.

 

[martinvickers]

I guess they could take one of these.

but guys such as Hamilton would need to dope big time again to make it in time.

As for JB, well hes going down, only question is how many will go with him.

One can only hope lots. Only problem is that usually the best way to get info is to cut a deal...and I would REALLY resent that sh!t getting any deal. I actually despise him worse than Armstrong, if that's believable.

I hope when T&C (if) comes round there's a fair anount fo stick to go with the carrot - so that if people don't co-operate or tell the truth, they get hammered based on evidence provide by those that do...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It will be expensive to fly all the co-conspirators to London, plus the cost of expert testimony. And, we must remember that it was a conspiracy involving team officials, employees, doctors, and elite cyclists of the USPS and Discovery Channel Cycling Teams. That's a lot of expense.

Be interesting if USADA tries to stick the cost on Bruyneel, et al., if USADA wins.

Co-conspirators, eh Mark?

You seem to ignore that there were numerous charges against the likes of Bruyneel, Celaya etc that exceed others doping offences, namely they were charged with possession, trafficking, administration, assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting and covering over a decade of doping.

@Martinvickers - remember that all the riders who received a reduced sanction did so agreeing that they must testify truthfully in any future ant-doping case, like the one taken against Bruyneel et al.

 

[MarkvW]

Co-conspirators, eh Mark?

You seem to ignore that there were numerous charges against the likes of Bruyneel, Celaya etc that exceed others doping offences, namely they were charged with possession, trafficking, administration, assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting and covering over a decade of doping.

@Martinvickers - remember that all the riders who received a reduced sanction did so agreeing that they must testify truthfully in any future ant-doping case, like the one taken against Bruyneel et al.

Dr. Maserati, in your quest to expose falsity and further truth you seem to have forgotten page eleven of the 'reasoned decision.' My sentence was a near direct quote of that provision. I presented it in the civil context, not the criminal context.

Come on, admit you are wrong on this one!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Dr. Maserati, in your quest to expose falsity and further truth you seem to have forgotten page eleven of the 'reasoned decision.' My sentence was a near direct quote of that provision. I presented it in the civil context, not the criminal context.

Come on, admit you are wrong on this one!

A near direct quote?? That you entered in a civil context - I have no idea what that means and as this is a forum not a Court, I couldn't care less about it.

Page 11:

On June 12, 2012, USADA notified Mr. Armstrong, Johan Bruyneel, Dr. Pedro Celaya, Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral, Dr. Michele Ferrari and Mr. Jose “Pepe” Marti (collectively, the “Respondents”) via letter that USADA was “opening a formal action against each of you based on evidence that . . . you engaged in anti-doping rule violations . . . from 1998 to [the] present. ”23 USADA notifed the Respondents that the “action is being brought as a single consolidated action because for a significant part of the period from January 1, 1998, through the present, each of the Respondents has been part of a doping conspiracy involving team officials, employees, doctors, and elite cyclists of the USPS and Discovery Channel Cycling Teams who committed numerous violations of the Applicable Rules (the “USPS Conspiracy” or the “Conspiracy)

So, the co-conspirators are the respondents.

 

[MarkvW]

A near direct quote?? That you entered in a civil context - I have no idea what that means and as this is a forum not a Court, I couldn't care less about it.

Page 11:


So, the co-conspirators are the respondents.

You can't sugar-coat the fact that Lance's teammates conspired with Lance to violate the doping rules. That's pretty much an established fact now.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You can't sugar-coat the fact that Lance's teammates conspired with Lance to violate the doping rules. That's pretty much an established fact now.

They did - but you cannot sugar coat it that they benefited in the same way or are being charged with the same ADRs as the respondents, known as the USPS Conspiracy.

 

[MarkvW]

They did - but you cannot sugar coat it that they benefited in the same way or are being charged with the same ADRs as the respondents, known as the USPS Conspiracy.

Maybe we can agree on this: Everybody on the USPS Team/Conspiracy was a filthy cheater.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Maybe we can agree on this: Everybody on the USPS Team/Conspiracy was a filthy cheater.

No, because as much as I am against doping, I don't look at people who participated in doping as either filthy or a cheater.

 

[Netserk]

No, because as much as I am against doping, I don't look at people who participated in doping as either filthy or a cheater.

You're not a cheater if you cheat?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You're not a cheater if you cheat?

When there was such large scale doping as there was, I don't look at those who armed up as cheaters, it was the default.

 

[martinvickers]

Co-conspirators, eh Mark?

You seem to ignore that there were numerous charges against the likes of Bruyneel, Celaya etc that exceed others doping offences, namely they were charged with possession, trafficking, administration, assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting and covering over a decade of doping.

@Martinvickers - remember that all the riders who received a reduced sanction did so agreeing that they must testify truthfully in any future ant-doping case, like the one taken against Bruyneel et al.

I do remember, Doc. I hope when T&C comes round, similar carrots and sticks are involved, Because carrots alone won't get it done.

 

[martinvickers]

When there was such large scale doping as there was, I don't look at those who armed up as cheaters, it was the default.

I appreciate it was the default, but I can't accept it isn't cheating just 'cos everybody else is doing it. Several Thousand wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Samson777]

No, because as much as I am against doping, I don't look at people who participated in doping as either filthy or a cheater.

Funny post

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I appreciate it was the default, but I can't accept it isn't cheating just 'cos everybody else is doing it. Several Thousand wrongs don't make a right.

And you are perfectly entitled to disagree.

 

[Netserk]

When there was such large scale doping as there was, I don't look at those who armed up as cheaters, it was the default.

May I ask if you view current dopers as cheats?

 

[Samson777]

When there was such large scale doping as there was, I don't look at those who armed up as cheaters, it was the default.

So when Astana arms up now, to keep up with Sky, it is not cheating I suppose? Good news for Vino indeed.

The enemy use chemichal weapons, we have to arm up and get chemicals weapons. If that is not justice..

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So when Astana arms up now, to keep up with Sky, it is not cheating I suppose? Good news for Vino indeed.

The enemy use chemichal weapons, we have to arm up and get chemicals weapons. If that is not justice..

Did I say any of that?
No.

If you want my opinion, just ask - I am right here, no need to make up stuff.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

May I ask if you view current dopers as cheats?

Yes - but this is on an assumption that there is less widespread doping as we saw throughout the 90's and well in to the 2000's, so that it may be based on a false premise.

 

[Samson777]

Did I say any of that?
No.

If you want my opinion, just ask - I am right here, no need to make up stuff.

And back to you my good man. Why do you think I had a question mark in the sentence?

But just for the fun, please forgive my ignorance, but could you perhaps explain, if guys doping today is cheaters or not? Or is it to simplify the matter? In that case, please explain.