USADA - Bruyneel, Celaya, Garcial del Moral, Ferrari, Marti

[Dr. Maserati]

And back to you my good man. Why do you think I had a question mark in the sentence?

But just for the fun, please forgive my ignorance, but could you perhaps explain, if guys doping today is cheaters or not? Or is it to simplify the matter? In that case, please explain.

Yours was a rhetorical question - which you went on to answer anyway when you stated it was good news for Vino.

If you want to be facetious then do not expect a reply.

 

[Samson777]

Yours was a rhetorical question - which you went on to answer anyway when you stated it was good news for Vino.

If you want to be facetious then do not expect a reply.

Haha. Okay, good evening to you too.

 

[MarkvW]

Widespread cheating isn't cheating.
Less than widespread cheating is cheating.
The definition of cheating in the rules doesn't define cheating.
Something else defines cheating--it must be each individual's definition.
Everybody makes their own rules.
There are no rules!

Pro Cycling!!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There are rules and there are consequences for breaking those rules. However, there is no specific rule about cheating. As a rule, it does not exist.

To be clear I do not look at cyclists taking PEDs in a scenario where the authorities that were meant to enforce those rules did exceedingly little to stop it (as well as sometimes aid it) as cheating.

 

[MarkvW]

Hi Mark,
. . .
However, there is no specific rule about cheating. As a rule, it does not exist.
. . .

I could not have said it better myself!

 

[heart_attack_man]

Yes - but this is on an assumption that there is less widespread doping as we saw throughout the 90's and well in to the 2000's, so that it may be based on a false premise.

Genuine question, but what changed and when? Is it the BP that was the significant change, or the EPO test, or a combination of the two? Or something else?

NOT being facetious, but when exactly did your opinion of "doping = not cheating" to "doping = cheating" change?

 

[del1962]

I think Tyler Hamilton has been called as a witness in this case

 

[ChewbaccaD]

He's was trollin' you guys before trollin' was cool. This is one of the biggest trolls in the history of trollkraft.

Gonna' enjoy seeing him go down. As for all USPS riders being as deserving of derision as Lance and Troll Master Johan, that's just stupid. Only those who are really sore over having been dumb enough to have bought the lie sold by those two says stupid things like that. It's cover for their inability to adequately deal with their mental inadequacies.

Lance and Troll Master Johan didn't just dope, they exerted pressure about doping, and were at the center of forcing everyone to keep their mouths shut. They had the power and money to devastate people's lives, and they did it. I guess if I'd been stupid enough to buy their lies, I might be writing things about how they are all the same too...fortunately, I was always a bit skeptical, and knew early on what their real games were. Hero worship has a price. Glad I don't get caught up in things like that.

 

[thehog]

He's was trollin' you guys before trollin' was cool. This is one of the biggest trolls in the history of trollkraft.

Gonna' enjoy seeing him go down. As for all USPS riders being as deserving of derision as Lance and Troll Master Johan, that's just stupid. Only those who are really sore over having been dumb enough to have bought the lie sold by those two says stupid things like that. It's cover for their inability to adequately deal with their mental inadequacies.

Lance and Troll Master Johan didn't just dope, they exerted pressure about doping, and were at the center of forcing everyone to keep their mouths shut. They had the power and money to devastate people's lives, and they did it. I guess if I'd been stupid enough to buy their lies, I might be writing things about how they are all the same too...fortunately, I was always a bit skeptical, and knew early on what their real games were. Hero worship has a price. Glad I don't get caught up in things like that.

I'm lovin' the casual lean with elbow on bikeseat supposedly candid photo on the sleeve.

I once flicked through a few pages of this book in a store years ago.

And you're right. So much trolling.

Fine art trolling. The master tactician.

 

[mewmewmew13]

waiting....
hopefully some of the other 'names' in management and staff will come to the fore.
Too many still getting away with too much


I hope the fur flies!
RROWW!!

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

waiting....
hopefully some of the other 'names' in management and staff will come to the fore.
Too many still getting away with too much


I hope the fur flies!
RROWW!!

I am guessing there will be a lot of video testimony.

 

[martinvickers]

I'm lovin' the casual lean with elbow on bikeseat supposedly candid photo on the sleeve.

I once flicked through a few pages of this book in a store years ago.

And you're right. So much trolling.

Fine art trolling. The master tactician.

I love the way he just has to remind people that he's more than 'just' armstrong ("8 tdF's") - it's like he can't help it, he's even trolling Lance!

Oh if we could only turn them on each other, the joy we could have...

 

[pastronef]

Johan hints about Ochowitz on twitter

https://twitter.com/nealrogers/status/394833100603002882

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Johan hints about Ochowitz on twitter

https://twitter.com/nealrogers/status/394833100603002882

well, it won't be a surprise if he is taken down as well. Lets get the ball rolling. Í think JB needs to use a shotgun approach......

 

[thehog]

well, it won't be a surprise if he is taken down as well. Lets get the ball rolling. Í think JB needs to use a shotgun approach......

Bruyneel is gong suicde bomber approach.

Burn the place down.

 

[martinvickers]

Bruyneel is gong suicde bomber approach.

Burn the place down.

Excellent. bring the marshmallows....

 

[MarkvW]

Bruyneel is gong suicde bomber approach.

Burn the place down.

That approach might have some value as an extortion tactic to get money out of Lance, but Johan and the Boys could snitch off everybody they wanted in other ways that are much cheaper.

Looks like Lance won't pay the Boys to keep silent (no surprise there--echoes of Floyd), so the Boys are on their own.

My guess is that Johan and the Boys won't put on any evidence, but will challenge USADA's jurisdiction over them, and maybe the statute of limitations extension.

Unless USADA serves up tasty new evidence, my prediction is that it will be kind of boring.

 

[del1962]

Johan hints about Ochowitz on twitter

https://twitter.com/nealrogers/status/394833100603002882

Are we sure its not JV he is having a got at?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

So, again - I do not look at cyclists taking PEDs in a scenario where the authorities that were meant to enforce those rules did exceedingly little to stop it (as well as sometimes aid it) as cheating.

Great way of clearing your hero - wonderboy - of any guilt.

 

[sniper]

Are we sure its not JV he is having a got at?

surprised to see race radio connecting the wrong dots there.
This is clearly about ochowicz

 

[del1962]

surprised to see race radio connecting the wrong dots there.
This is clearly about ochowicz

I think there is a bitter rivalry between the Hog and JV though, but if the Hog has evidence against Och and testifies against him, all well and good, don't hold your breath there.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

surprised to see race radio connecting the wrong dots there.
This is clearly about ochowicz

In a previous twitter exchange Bruyneel posted a photo of the USPS bus used in the movie about LA, it is the Garmin-Sharp bus and in reply to someone Bruyneel says:
"Photoshop???
Team Garmin Sharp lent their bus for the movie. Basically, every single road is leading to 1 single person..."

So, its JV, not Och that JB is on about.

 

[thehog]

surprised to see race radio connecting the wrong dots there.
This is clearly about ochowicz

I'm looking forward to hearing Johan's version of events.

If he has some things to say about Och and JV. Well thats why there's arbitration.

Don't know why others are getting upset. Johan needs his time in the stand to say what he has to say.

Is it public, this hearing?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I am assuming this is just a pathetic attempt to troll.
Either that are you are completely clueless. (which to be fair, is also a possibility)

Again pretty pathetic Doc V.

Just read your own quote:

So, again - I do not look at cyclists taking PEDs in a scenario where the authorities that were meant to enforce those rules did exceedingly little to stop it (as well as sometimes aid it) as cheating.

So, doping is not cheating?

Sorry that I read that as a justification of all dopers, like wonderboy. Your words doctor semantics. I even linked the quote for you so you cant whine about that.

By the way, do you have a link for

authorities that were meant to enforce those rules did exceedingly little to stop it (as well as sometimes aid it)

the bold part?

The clueless part of me is very interested in that. Link me up doc.

 

[sniper]

In a previous twitter exchange Bruyneel posted a photo of the USPS bus used in the movie about LA, it is the Garmin-Sharp bus and in reply to someone Bruyneel says:
"Photoshop???
Team Garmin Sharp lent their bus for the movie. Basically, every single road is leading to 1 single person..."

So, its JV, not Och that JB is on about.

Interesting

I'm looking forward to hearing Johan's version of events.

If he has some things to say about Och and JV. Well thats why there's arbitration.

Don't know why others are getting upset. Johan needs his time in the stand to say what he has to say.

Is it public, this hearing?

if we,re lucky this gonna be good.

I,d be surprised if johan has any real beans to spill on jv or garmin though.
And if it ends up being johans word against jvs, very few members of the current cycling family will think twice about whose side to choose.
race radios twitter response seems telling in that respect.