USADA - Bruyneel, Celaya, Garcial del Moral, Ferrari, Marti

[Race Radio]

sounds about right.

The Arbitrators agreed with you, the deals were fair

The punishments meted out by USADA to these athletes appear to be consistent with the applicable WADC rules permitting favorable treatment for those who assist in establishing doping offenses against others. In addition,
presumably the Respondents could have obtained similar “deals” from USADA had they sought to accept a punishment early and assist in prosecuting doping offenses against others, but they chose to not do so accepting instead the risk and reward of, on the one hand, the tremendous opportunity they could obtain by fighting the charges against them and the tremendous detriment they could obtain should they be unsuccessful.

 

[pmcg76]

evil dopers: 8 years to life
good dopers: 6 months in the off season

sounds about right. cycling continues to be a joke.

What would you prefer, none of those guys testify and the likes of Armstrong, Bruyneel et al continue on their merry way and nothing happens, or what actually happened, becasue rest assured those guys would not have testified to USADA if it meant a potential end to their career's.

 

[Race Radio]

I've never even heard of the AAA before today. If you had asked me yesterday, I would have told you it was car insurance or a New Deal era program or something.

Why do they have jurisdiction in the case of Bruyneel and not USADA? Why didn't USADA simply impose their ban and then that was it?

Why on earth should Bruyneels ban be shorter than Armstrong's??? His is shorter because he fought it with more enthusiasm? Really?

So if Bruyneel takes it to CAS and gets it reduces further, then he gets two bites at the apple? Does this system make sense to anyone else?

The Protour teams and UCI should do an end run around this and announce that they will collude and refuse to hire any banned riders or directors for a period equal to the length of their suspension after their suspension is completed. Therefore, 20 years without Bruyneel, and he will simply disappear (he has already, it seems).

I suggest reading the arbitrators decision as it answers all of your questions
http://www.scribd.com/doc/219607778/Bruyneel-Marti-Celaya

 

[babastooey]

How about this.

Good dopers, 2 years. Evil dopers, life.

If evil dopers after they get life turn over a new leaf and provide useful evidence that can lead to suspensions for other evil dopers, they get their life sentence reduced to something like 5 years.

If dopers who get 2 or 5 years fail to reveal all of their indiscretions and/or are caught a second time, they become/re-become evil dopers and get life. However, they are now unable to get the time knocked down to 5 years with good behavior.

Team directors or doctors who aided cheating but provide info get 5 years. Directors and doctors who get busted get life. If they get life and then provide useful info, they get 10 years. If they fail to disclose everything and/or get busted again, its life.

 

[babastooey]

I suggest reading the arbitrators decision as it answers all of your questions
http://www.scribd.com/doc/219607778/Bruyneel-Marti-Celaya

I will, and thank you for providing the useful link.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

What would you prefer, none of those guys testify and the likes of Armstrong, Bruyneel et al continue on their merry way and nothing happens, or what actually happened, becasue rest assured those guys would not have testified to USADA if it meant a potential end to their career's.

He lives in Make Believe Land where people give incriminating information about themselves and others out of the sense of duty and ethics they have in their hearts...

No wait, he just likes grinding axes.

 

[Race Radio]

How about this.

Good dopers, 2 years. Evil dopers, life.

If evil dopers after they get life turn over a new leaf and provide useful evidence that can lead to suspensions for other evil dopers, they get their life sentence reduced to something like 5 years.

If dopers who get 2 or 5 years fail to reveal all of their indiscretions and/or are caught a second time, they become/re-become evil dopers and get life. However, they are now unable to get the time knocked down to 5 years with good behavior.

Team directors or doctors who aided cheating but provide info get 5 years. Directors and doctors who get busted get life. If they get life and then provide useful info, they get 10 years. If they fail to disclose everything and/or get busted again, its life.

The WADA code essentially does this already

 

[RobbieCanuck]

I've never even heard of the AAA before today. If you had asked me yesterday, I would have told you it was car insurance or a New Deal era program or something.

Why do they have jurisdiction in the case of Bruyneel and not USADA? Why didn't USADA simply impose their ban and then that was it?

The AAA have jurisdiction because there is an agreement between the AAA and USADA that the AAA will be the arbitration body for all USADA ADR violations cases, which includes cycling cases

The AAA even drew up special arbitration rules for doping cases called the AAA’s Supplementary Procedures for the Arbitration of Olympic Sport Doping Disputes

These rules were found to satisfy due process principles in a case brought by Lance Armstrong in the US District Court in June 2012. In the US the AAA are the "court" for doping case.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

babastooey;1445407

I've never even heard of the AAA before today. If you had asked me yesterday, I would have told you it was car insurance or a New Deal era program or something.

Why do they have jurisdiction in the case of Bruyneel and not USADA? Why didn't USADA simply impose their ban and then that was it?

The AAA have jurisdiction because there is an agreement between the AAA and USADA that the AAA will be the arbitration body for all USADA ADR violations cases, which includes cycling cases

The AAA even drew up special arbitration rules for doping cases called the AAA’s Supplementary Procedures for the Arbitration of Olympic Sport Doping Disputes

These rules were found to satisfy due process principles in a case brought by Lance Armstrong in the US District Court in June 2012.

In the US the AAA are the "court" for doping cases. Go to their website.

 

[the sceptic]

What would you prefer, none of those guys testify and the likes of Armstrong, Bruyneel et al continue on their merry way and nothing happens, or what actually happened, becasue rest assured those guys would not have testified to USADA if it meant a potential end to their career's.

going down with the ship was obviously the wrong move. But does that make them any worse than those who testified?

I just think its a joke that JV & friends got away with it so easily. They were all dopers, some just chose the wrong strategy, and some were bigger tools than others.

 

[Race Radio]

going down with the ship was obviously the wrong move. But does that make them any worse than those who testified?

I just think its a joke that JV & friends got away with it so easily. They were all dopers, some just chose the wrong strategy, and some were bigger *******s than others.

Pretending Frankie, JV and Dave Z are the same as Johan, Ferrari, and Lance is absurd.

 

[blackcat]

 

[blackcat]

Johan manages to put the albino in white trash.

Ibiza. tick.

moving to ibitha from northern country or uk and manchester. tick.

hair. tick.

strippers. ticks

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Johan manages to put the albino in white trash.

Ibiza. tick.

moving to ibitha from northern country or uk and manchester. tick.

hair. tick.

strippers. ticks

That's strong.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

going down with the ship was obviously the wrong move. But does that make them any worse than those who testified?

I just think its a joke that JV & friends got away with it so easily. They were all dopers, some just chose the wrong strategy, and some were bigger tools than others.

Yea, nobody is surprised that's what motivated your post...


Grind, grind, grind...

You're the only one doing the "worst/best" metric. Nobody defends the drug use of those who got 6 months. Strawman, look it up.

 

[pmcg76]

going down with the ship was obviously the wrong move. But does that make them any worse than those who testified?

I just think its a joke that JV & friends got away with it so easily. They were all dopers, some just chose the wrong strategy, and some were bigger *******s than others.

You didn't really answer my question though. But then that is no surprise as ChewbaccaD highlighted your agenda here.

 

[proffate]

I, for one, support different sentences for drug abusers and drug traffickers.

 

[MarkvW]

going down with the ship was obviously the wrong move. But does that make them any worse than those who testified?

I just think its a joke that JV & friends got away with it so easily. They were all dopers, some just chose the wrong strategy, and some were bigger *******s than others.

Sometimes you've got to give scumbags deals to get bigger scumbags.

 

[Benotti69]

Pretending Frankie, JV and Dave Z are the same as Johan, Ferrari, and Lance is absurd.

No but Hincapie, Levi and others are. But Frankie suffered in other ways and has paid more than a 2 year ban, but Vaughters he did no time!

 

[pmcg76]

No but Hincapie, Levi and others are. But Frankie suffered in other ways and has paid more than a 2 year ban, but Vaughters he did no time!

Well he did quit early because of doping so that could be viewed as doing time. I know you don't see it that way but quitting at age 29 whilst on a fat contract is a sacrifice no matter what way you dice it.

There are plenty of riders out there who were never caught or never even exposed as dopers who made a nice living out of cycling and are probably still doing so but we never hear of them because they are not English speakers. Fernando Escartin would be one rider who comes to mind.

 

[the sceptic]

Well he did quit early because of doping so that could be viewed as doing time. I know you don't see it that way but quitting at age 29 whilst on a fat contract is a sacrifice no matter what way you dice it.

There are plenty of riders out there who were never caught or never even exposed as dopers who made a nice living out of cycling and are probably still doing so but we never hear of them because they are not English speakers. Fernando Escartin would be one rider who comes to mind.

JV is making a nice living these days isnt he? Do you think he would be where he is today if he hadnt juiced?

 

[Benotti69]

Well he did quit early because of doping so that could be viewed as doing time. I know you don't see it that way but quitting at age 29 whilst on a fat contract is a sacrifice no matter what way you dice it.

There are plenty of riders out there who were never caught or never even exposed as dopers who made a nice living out of cycling and are probably still doing so but we never hear of them because they are not English speakers. Fernando Escartin would be one rider who comes to mind.

Plenty of caught dopers still living it large. Apart from Frankie and Landis, all others in USPS have kept their ill gotten gains!

Yes plenty never caught.

Vaughters made the decision to retire. Kudos for that, but he was hardly going to starve. Plenty in the sport have to dope to make a living, wrongly but that was what their families prepared them for.

When I lived in Italy I witnessed kids (as young as 8 and 9 year olds) skipping school to train motor pacing behind their dads scooters . These will have little to fall back on should they not take the doping route.

 

[WinterRider]

No but Hincapie, Levi and others are. But Frankie suffered in other ways and has paid more than a 2 year ban, but Vaughters he did no time!

If I recall, Vaughters voluntarily walked away from the circus and did self imposed time.

I'm ok with that.

 

[Netserk]

JV is making a nice living these days isnt he? Do you think he would be where he is today if he hadnt juiced?

No.

So what? From an anti-doping perspective I would much prefer JV as a manager than most others. He is far from perfect, but I do think cycling (again from an anti-doping perspective) would be far better off if all managers were like him.

 

[pmcg76]

JV is making a nice living these days isnt he? Do you think he would be where he is today if he hadnt juiced?

Maybe, maybe not. He took an approach that was different than most in setting up his own junior team and got lucky in that he met Doug Ellis. Maybe if that meeting had never happened, JV might be an irrelevance.