USADA will investigate

[Stingray34]

Good post Stingray.

Just congratulating myself for a post I'm going to make downthread.

Phillip K. Dick would get it.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Lance was clearly doped, and seems like a bit of a tool, but seriously, this Hog post has just appeared out of the ether. If asking for a source is trolling, science must be conducted under bridges.

While I would never call a respected poster like the Hog a troll, the real meaning of my post was that I was actually agreeing with Cal Joe and saying it was obvious to me too that the Hog was simply doing a little fishing with his statement about USADA and Lance. That Cal Joe quickly took the bait in both cases (even though it was only proffered in one case) shows how easy it can be. That nobody else got what I meant could show that it wasn't as funny as I thought it was.
OK sorry for the interruption, let's get back to the serious debate about which Tuesday USADA will make public their charges against Lance.

 

[BroDeal]

To be fair to JV, and i continue to have issues with him, his affidavit is actually consistent with what Floyd said on this issue. There actually wasn't truth in it. It just seems like two guys shooting the sh** with a story that had been recycled and altered.

As I say there was a time I would have completely agreed with you on this issue, but when I heard there was actually no truth in the story, I changed my opinion.

Vaughters used hearsay about FLandis to avoid giving information that came from his personal experience on Postal. He could have recounted how Armstrong joined a team without a doping program then brought aboard the Belgians, who set up a doping program with ex-ONCE doctors. He could have told about the injections that were given to him, his knowledge of other team members who were injected, Armstrong encouraging him to dope, etc.

On a broader sense if Lance finds out what certain people have said, then there will be repercussions for those people. He controls the lot.

Armstrong influence is largely gone. That is why he has moved on to a new batch of suckers (triathlon). Everyone in cycling knows he is a fraud, and they just want him to quietly go away. Instead of Armstrong, people fear riders like Hamilton, who could dish the dirt on Postal, CSC, Phonak, and Tinkoff, which would be very embarassing to RSNT, Saxo, BMC, and Katusha as well as the UCI.

 

[Elagabalus]

... If a show of hands says we want links before anythink is dicussed then close down the thread and we can get back to the Lance being Lance thread.

But please don't be so selfish to expect everything in this world revolves around press statements to the Internet.

It doesn't work that way.

Nobody said that anything discussed here has to have links but there is a difference between saying "Looks like USADA are about to pull the trigger on the Lance for doping" and "my sources tell me that the USADA are about to pull the trigger on the Lance for doping" nicht wahr?

 

[Digger]

Vaughters used hearsay about FLandis to avoid giving information that came from his personal experience on Postal. He could have recounted how Armstrong joined a team without a doping program then brought aboard the Belgians, who set up a doping program with ex-ONCE doctors. He could have told about the injections that were given to him, his knowledge of other team members who were injected, Armstrong encouraging him to dope, etc.



Armstrong influence is largely gone. That is why he has moved on to a new batch of suckers (triathlon). Everyone in cycling knows he is a fraud, and they just want him to quietly go away. Instead of Armstrong, people fear riders like Hamilton, who could dish the dirt on Postal, CSC, Phonak, and Tinkoff, which would be very embarassing to RSNT, Saxo, BMC, and Katusha as well as the UCI.

I'm with you about Vaughters. I think and have said to him directly that he should have gone public with this long ago. Just that in that particular story about the blood bag being flushed down the toilet, Floyd said himself in that Kimmage interview, that there wasn't any truth in it.

As regards Armstrong influence largely gone, we'll have to agree to disagree. There are still people out there afraid of retribution from him.

 

[patricknd]

While I would never call a respected poster like the Hog a troll, the real meaning of my post was that I was actually agreeing with Cal Joe and saying it was obvious to me too that the Hog was simply doing a little fishing with his statement about USADA and Lance. That Cal Joe quickly took the bait in both cases (even though it was only proffered in one case) shows how easy it can be. That nobody else got what I meant could show that it wasn't as funny as I thought it was.
OK sorry for the interruption, let's get back to the serious debate about which Tuesday USADA will make public their charges against Lance.

Your tongue was a little too firmly in cheek on that one. In the future please remember to dumb it down for people like the hog and me. Thanks

 

[thehog]

My understanding is they do it so they don't get subpoenaed to speak in front of a GJ. Voluntary offering of testimony.

Interesting. Tell us more?

 

[thehog]

While I would never call a respected poster like the Hog a troll, the real meaning of my post was that I was actually agreeing with Cal Joe and saying it was obvious to me too that the Hog was simply doing a little fishing with his statement about USADA and Lance. That Cal Joe quickly took the bait in both cases (even though it was only proffered in one case) shows how easy it can be. That nobody else got what I meant could show that it wasn't as funny as I thought it was.
OK sorry for the interruption, let's get back to the serious debate about which Tuesday USADA will make public their charges against Lance.

The silliness of it all is the one guy who follows me about on this forum only to call me a troll.

He (she) makes no contribution to any threads or to the non-clinic threads just calls me a troll.

Alas I get labelled a troll for fostering and engaging in conversation in several threads both here in the clinic and in the pro cycling section.

Seriously? I'm a troll?

I've been involved in cycling since my teens and get to hear a fair bit around traps.

If its not appreciated then we can all luster over the brilliant contributions to this forum from the troll callers.

I maybe a lot of things but a troll ain't it.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Interesting. Tell us more?

I think the word you were looking for was obvious, rather than interesting.

 

[Cal_Joe]

The silliness of it all is the one guy who follows me about on this forum only to call me a troll.

He (she) makes no contribution to any threads or to the non-clinic threads just calls me a troll.

Alas I get labelled a troll for fostering and engaging in conversation in several threads both here in the clinic and in the pro cycling section.

Seriously? I'm a troll?

I've been involved in cycling since my teens and get to hear a fair bit around traps.

If its not appreciated then we can all luster over the brilliant contributions to this forum from the troll callers.

I maybe a lot of things but a troll ain't it.

Oh, hoggy - when are you ever going to stop MAKING THINGS UP. Please let us know in which post of mine I have called you a troll.

Myself, other posters, and even the mods slam you, not for being a troll, but for MAKING THINGS UP.

I get labelled a troll for fostering and engaging in conversation in several threads both here in the clinic and in the pro cycling section.

Now why on earth would everyone pick on you? Maybe it is your habit of MAKING THINGS UP.

Hint - your posts may be better received (but no guarantees) if you can refrain from MAKING THINGS UP.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I don't envy his position. But if the evidence is there he should do the right thing. It will be tough but and I'm sure we'll start to see all sorts of questioning of the USADA process.

So what will they call it?

Bitter ex-teammates? Book deal? Jealous wife of former teammate. What will they label this one? I assume they will say other athletes were offered sweetheart deals to expose Lance and make things up.
If we start to see some of the real evidence not seen before it might raise some questions to why the Federal probe was dropped.

We'll see but its important the anti-doping authorities will be doing their job regardless of the athlete. Armstrong himself he welcomes the case and having himself vindicated.

My feeling is that the public are exhausted of all of this. This time around they will just want him to admit and move on. The more and more he pretends he didn't the more its looks as though he's hiding the big lie.

I for one wish he'd come clean so the sport could move on.[/QUOTE]

Only if they co-operate with USADA. If they do not they could face a sanction. Some have a lot to lose and will get hit by shrapnel. Armstrong and his team of paid liars have made it clear if he goes down he will take as many as possible with him. He does not seem to realize the sport has moved on. It will be fine. The Tri Geeks might be in a spot of bother though.

I still expect some form of managed admission.

According to a post from the late “Swordsman” LA’s lawyers have already claimed that sweetheart deals were offered back in August of 2011.

Ok the two of you need to decide which is it. “The sport of cycling needs to move on” or “The sport of cycling HAS moved on” Please get this straight for me because without resolution I am going to be troubled by this until it is resolved.

 

[thehog]

I don't envy his position. But if the evidence is there he should do the right thing. It will be tough but and I'm sure we'll start to see all sorts of questioning of the USADA process.

So what will they call it?

Bitter ex-teammates? Book deal? Jealous wife of former teammate. What will they label this one? I assume they will say other athletes were offered sweetheart deals to expose Lance and make things up.
If we start to see some of the real evidence not seen before it might raise some questions to why the Federal probe was dropped.

We'll see but its important the anti-doping authorities will be doing their job regardless of the athlete. Armstrong himself he welcomes the case and having himself vindicated.

My feeling is that the public are exhausted of all of this. This time around they will just want him to admit and move on. The more and more he pretends he didn't the more its looks as though he's hiding the big lie.

I for one wish he'd come clean so the sport could move on.[/QUOTE]



According to a post from the late “Swordsman” LA’s lawyers have already claimed that sweetheart deals were offered back in August of 2011.

Ok the two of you need to decide which is it. “The sport of cycling needs to move on” or “The sport of cycling HAS moved on” Please get this straight for me because without resolution I am going to be troubled by this until it is resolved.

It would be good if Armstrong could in some way clarify the situation. For years he’s been adamant of his clean cycling. More recently we’ve not heard much as a denial or confirmation of doping - nothing at all really. He has been involved in some very serious government investigations. I’d like to see him clear up some of the confusion over the alleged drug usage. If anything so the fans can move on. Saying nothing is not helping. I’d hate to think some of his most ardent supporters have been lied to.

That’s what I mean by moving on. Once Armstrong can make a statement in regards to his involvement with drug aided cycling victories we can move on.

 

[Anti-doping]

So much trolling...(Race Radio / Hog)
Eddy doped, Bernhard doped, Jacques doped, Miguel doped, Fausto doped....get over it and move on. Eddy, Bernhard, Miguel choosed to deny this, still heroes, still role models, still leaving the good life because they won (and doped). That's life. That's procycling. That's real life. Only the worst dopers like Lemond is hidden. Everyone knows that. No one in the sport will give him a position.

Lance fame (by fans) is only behind Eddy. That's the fact. That's life. Deal with it. Of course they both could if the want. Deal with it.

Lance like Eddy choose to not taking a role as DS or team manager.
Tyler can't get a job in procycling. Floyd can't get a job in procycling. Because they tried to blame other for what they choosed to do. Persona non grata. Deal with it. Everyone in the peloton hate the ones that blame others. You do not do that without consequenses. Alberto, Ivan, Laurent also doped, but they didn't blame others. Because of that they are still welcomed in the peloton. Deal with it. This is procycling, if you can't deal with it, find another sport.

 

[thehog]

So much trolling...(Race Radio / Hog)
Eddy doped, Bernhard doped, Jacques doped, Miguel doped, Fausto doped....get over it and move on. Eddy, Bernhard, Miguel choosed to deny this, still heroes, still role models, still leaving the good life because they won (and doped). That's life. That's procycling. That's real life. Only the worst dopers like Lemond is hidden. Everyone knows that. No one in the sport will give him a position.

Lance fame (by fans) is only behind Eddy. That's the fact. That's life. Deal with it. Of course they both could if the want. Deal with it.

Lance like Eddy choose to not taking a role as DS or team manager.
Tyler can't get a job in procycling. Floyd can't get a job in procycling. Because they tried to blame other for what they choosed to do. Persona non grata. Deal with it. Everyone in the peloton hate the ones that blame others. You do not do that without consequenses. Alberto, Ivan, Laurent also doped, but they didn't blame others. Because of that they are still welcomed in the peloton. Deal with it. This is procycling, if you can't deal with it, find another sport.

And what of Christophe Bassons - should he have doped as well? Because it was ok and everyone should just deal with it. Even though its against the rules.

Thanks for update Anti-doping. Everthing is much clearer now.

Perhaps you could change your login name to just doping and not anti-doping.

 

[Race Radio]

So much trolling...(Race Radio / Hog)
Eddy doped, Bernhard doped, Jacques doped, Miguel doped, Fausto doped....get over it and move on. Eddy, Bernhard, Miguel choosed to deny this, still heroes, still role models, still leaving the good life because they won (and doped). That's life. That's procycling. That's real life. Only the worst dopers like Lemond is hidden. Everyone knows that. No one in the sport will give him a position.

Lance fame (by fans) is only behind Eddy. That's the fact. That's life. Deal with it. Of course they both could if the want. Deal with it.

Lance like Eddy choose to not taking a role as DS or team manager.
Tyler can't get a job in procycling. Floyd can't get a job in procycling. Because they tried to blame other for what they choosed to do. Persona non grata. Deal with it. Everyone in the peloton hate the ones that blame others. You do not do that without consequenses. Alberto, Ivan, Laurent also doped, but they didn't blame others. Because of that they are still welcomed in the peloton. Deal with it. This is procycling, if you can't deal with it, find another sport.

Is paying off the UCI "part of the sport"? Harassing anyone who tells the truth or questions the myth? Exploiting the fear and suffering of sick people for financial gain is "part of the sport"?

Really?

As I written many times doping is not the sole measure of a person.

You are welcome to pretend that it is just about doping, but we all know it isn't.

 

[Hugh Januss]

So much trolling...(Race Radio / Hog)
Eddy doped, Bernhard doped, Jacques doped, Miguel doped, Fausto doped....get over it and move on. Eddy, Bernhard, Miguel choosed to deny this, still heroes, still role models, still leaving the good life because they won (and doped). That's life. That's procycling. That's real life. Only the worst dopers like Lemond is hidden. Everyone knows that. No one in the sport will give him a position.

Lance fame (by fans) is only behind Eddy. That's the fact. That's life. Deal with it. Of course they both could if the want. Deal with it.

Lance like Eddy choose to not taking a role as DS or team manager.
Tyler can't get a job in procycling. Floyd can't get a job in procycling. Because they tried to blame other for what they choosed to do. Persona non grata. Deal with it. Everyone in the peloton hate the ones that blame others. You do not do that without consequenses. Alberto, Ivan, Laurent also doped, but they didn't blame others. Because of that they are still welcomed in the peloton. Deal with it. This is procycling, if you can't deal with it, find another sport.

Idiot. Was gonna say more, but really that covers it.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That’s what I mean by moving on. Once Armstrong can make a statement in regards to his involvement with drug aided cycling victories we can move on.

“To all the cynics, I'm sorry for you, ... I'm sorry you can't believe in miracles. This is a great sporting event and hard work wins it.”

“If you consider my situation: a guy who comes back from arguably, you know, a death sentence, why would I then enter into a sport and dope myself up and risk my life again? That's crazy. I would never do that. No. No way.”

“I'm sorry for you, ... I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.”

" 20+ year career. 500 drug controls worldwide, in and out of competition. Never a failed test. I rest my case."

Eddy, Bernhard, Miguel choosed to deny this, still heroes, still role models, still leaving the good life because they won (and doped). That's life. That's procycling. That's real life. Only the worst dopers like Lemond is hidden. Everyone knows that. No one in the sport will give him a position.

So, cheating is the way? And with regards to Eddy, what kinda father would let his son being drugged?

As for Lemond, I never heard he even was thinking of an involvement in pro - cycling, but you must have a great source to that.

Lance fame (by fans) is only behind Eddy. That's the fact. That's life. Deal with it. Of course they both could if the want. Deal with it.

Lol.

Lance like Eddy choose to not taking a role as DS or team manager.
Tyler can't get a job in procycling. Floyd can't get a job in procycling. Because they tried to blame other for what they choosed to do. Persona non grata. Deal with it. Everyone in the peloton hate the ones that blame others. You do not do that without consequenses. Alberto, Ivan, Laurent also doped, but they didn't blame others. Because of that they are still welcomed in the peloton. Deal with it. This is procycling, if you can't deal with it, find another sport.

And your point is?

I really don't care if Armstrong would be dragged through the mud for his cheating seven times but for guys like this calling himself anti-doping I would love it.

 

[Dave_1]

if USADA has no + test from LA and he denies allegations , and there is no smoking gun-e.g. a syringe or dealer with proof, and the paper trail is explainable or not sufficient for a grand jury to go to a trial, then another doper has got away with it. In my opinion Lance has got away with doping. Nothing much can be done now. It's move on time for the clinic I guess.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

if USADA has no + test from LA and he denies allegations , and there is no smoking gun-e.g. a syringe or dealer with proof, and the paper trail is explainable or not sufficient for a grand jury to go to a trial, then another doper has got away with it. In my opinion Lance has got away with doping. Nothing much can be done now. It's move on time for the clinic I guess.

Depends on whether or not multiple eye witness testimony under oath is seen as "evidence" (as it is in criminal law) or "hearsay / SSDD" as it tends to be seen when his Sociopathic Majesty is involved.

 

[Dave_1]

Depends on whether or not multiple eye witness testimony under oath is seen as "evidence" (as it is in criminal law) or "hearsay / SSDD" as it tends to be seen when his Sociopathic Majesty is involved.

the multiple eye witness testimony that LA didn't dope or the multiple eye witness testimony which says he did? Eye witness account will be evenly split..some will have said he did dope and some that they never saw it..USADA needs a + control or a used syringe or an admition from LA. USADA don't have the material from the grand jury yet anyway, if they're ever allowed it legally. LA doped and got away with it. Deal with it!

 

[SpeedWay]

The silliness of it all is the one guy who follows me about on this forum only to call me a troll.

He (she) makes no contribution to any threads or to the non-clinic threads just calls me a troll.

Alas I get labelled a troll for fostering and engaging in conversation in several threads both here in the clinic and in the pro cycling section.

Seriously? I'm a troll?

I've been involved in cycling since my teens and get to hear a fair bit around traps.

If its not appreciated then we can all luster over the brilliant contributions to this forum from the troll callers.

I maybe a lot of things but a troll ain't it.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

the multiple eye witness testimony that LA didn't dope or the multiple eye witness testimony which says he did? Eye witness account will be evenly split..some will have said he did dope and some that they never saw it..USADA needs a + control or a used syringe or an admition from LA. USADA don't have the material from the grand jury yet anyway, if they're ever allowed it legally. LA doped and got away with it. Deal with it!

Apart from the unstable woman under pressure from Lance via Oakley who has sworn under oath to the GJ or to the feds that Lance never doped.

And just because person A says they never saw him dope, it doesn't mean that person B could not possibly have seen him dope on a different occasion.

I imagine USADA have a fairly good idea of who was in the know (The A Team) and who was out of the loop, and will have testimony (as well as locations and dates) to support this.

There is still some hope on this.

 

[Polish]

Depends on whether or not multiple eye witness testimony under oath is seen as "evidence" (as it is in criminal law) or "hearsay / SSDD" as it tends to be seen when his Sociopathic Majesty is involved.

Has any National Anti-Doping Federation ever sanctioned a rider because someone saw them doping? Cant recall that ever happening. And if it did happen - how did CAS rule on the appeal of the sanction?

Sure, lots of riders have been seen doping duh. How would a anti-doping body choose which riders to sanction and which riders to let off? Do it randomly? Put all the dopers who have ever been seen doping by eye witnesses in a big drum, give the drum a spin - and pick a doper randomly. Be kind of fun

 

[MacRoadie]

Has any National Anti-Doping Federation ever sanctioned a rider because someone saw them doping? Cant recall that ever happening. And if it did happen - how did CAS rule on the appeal of the sanction?

I'm guessing Kayle Leogrande would tell you they don't even need to see you doping...

Google "non-analytical positive" my friend. It takes a lot less than an eye-witness to the doping these days.

 

[Polish]

It would be good if Armstrong could in some way clarify the situation. For years he’s been adamant of his clean cycling. More recently we’ve not heard much as a denial or confirmation of doping - nothing at all really. He has been involved in some very serious government investigations. I’d like to see him clear up some of the confusion over the alleged drug usage. If anything so the fans can move on. Saying nothing is not helping. I’d hate to think some of his most ardent supporters have been lied to.

That’s what I mean by moving on. Once Armstrong can make a statement in regards to his involvement with drug aided cycling victories we can move on.

The Hog, how many times does Lance need to clarify the situation? He has consistently clarified it at least a thousand times. Maybe more than a thousand. Most Consistenty Clarified Athlete of All Times. And the Fed investigation confirmed it. Do you need CAS to confirm it too? Can you move on after a CAS ruling? No moving till then? Sit tight.