Usain Bolt/Carl Lewis

[Cloxxki]

I just came home from a 3x4x200m (2'/4'rest) workout at the track. Not quite a sprint training, but short intervals for a 800m group.

You batcha I would have gotten a much better workout in with EPO.
I was out of breath pretty much all the way through, I lactated up quicker than I wanted to, and felt held back by the hard breathing.

 

[Freddythefrog]

Bolt the Saviour of sprinting

This is just a stunning piece. Phil Ligget would be proud of it. Suspend disbelief children while I tell you a story. They pulped the posters with Bolt and Gay on and now only Bolt is left, he just has to be the white knight. One of the writers in the comments below has picked up on Chambers telling the journo what is really going on.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...d-Athletics-Championships-2013-in-Moscow.html

 

[the sceptic]

lolol that article is pure gold

The sport may be predicated on man-to-man and woman-to-woman competition, but what the IAAF will want is a one-man show – a victory for Bolt by as large a margin as possible, followed swiftly by a boisterous lap of honour with plenty of ‘thunderbolt’ celebrations thrown in.

But there is a snag. His name is Gatlin, the Olympic bronze medallist and twice-banned drug cheat, and he has the potential to intrude on the heart-warming script.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

This is just a stunning piece. Phil Ligget would be proud of it. Suspend disbelief children while I tell you a story. They pulped the posters with Bolt and Gay on and now only Bolt is left, he just has to be the white knight. One of the writers in the comments below has picked up on Chambers telling the journo what is really going on.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...d-Athletics-Championships-2013-in-Moscow.html

Nauseatingly aggrandising.

One man has the power to save athletics ....... Angel "Memo" Heredia getting busted in a food and drug administration scandal and ratting out his clients or a different member of the team.

Bolt is in no way good for the sport.

He can't be compared to Muhammad Ali. Ali is a guy who surrendered his title when he was at the peak of his earning potential because his sense of honour compelled him to take a political stand against the war in Vietman. Bolt's sense of honour compelled him to cheat his way to peak earning potential.

 

[Ferminal]

Actually I think the IAAF are playing their cards fairly well here. It now looks like cheat and you will be caught, therefore anyone not caught is clean. Usain Bolt is a great clean athlete showing that you don't have to be an evil doper to run a world beating time.

 

[blackcat]

10.2 and quicker, cant be done.

we are not watching athletics, but the fastest bodybuilders on earth. they would be pretty $hit in mr olympia, but they would beat them on the running track

 

[Galic Ho]

10.2 and quicker, cant be done.

we are not watching athletics, but the fastest bodybuilders on earth. they would be pretty $hit in mr olympia, but they would beat them on the running track

So you think the natural limit for men is 10.2 seconds?

I was willing to go to 9.9 for the worlds best. I don't think many can naturally clean crack 10 seconds and that is the entire history of the sport.

The bar has been shifted so much in terms of WR that the sport is almost ruined. The whole purpose is to run faster. Doping is the only option.

FINA when they banned the super buoyancy swim suits, should have reset EVERY WR. They didn't and now swimming is worse off for it. Which is exactly the same predicament athletics has had since the Germans, Russians and Chinese had their way with track and field through to the mid 90s. All we have now is a continuation of that muck with a few select countries thinking they are the beez knees, the ducks nuts. The people with the genetic gifts. Load of crap IMO. They simply dope more and test far less than other countries. Jamaica being prime candidate no.1.

 

[horsinabout]

Did u know that Donovan Bailey and Usain Bolt are the only two record breaking sprinters, post Ben Johnson, not to be tainted with positive tests. Yes and Bailey is so proud of his achievement that he goes into schools and tells the kids how you can achieve this greatness on healthy eating and vitamin pills. True story, heard Bailey say all of this last week.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

So you think the natural limit for men is 10.2 seconds?

I was willing to go to 9.9 for the worlds best. I don't think many can naturally clean crack 10 seconds and that is the entire history of the sport.

The bar has been shifted so much in terms of WR that the sport is almost ruined. The whole purpose is to run faster. Doping is the only option.

FINA when they banned the super buoyancy swim suits, should have reset EVERY WR. They didn't and now swimming is worse off for it. Which is exactly the same predicament athletics has had since the Germans, Russians and Chinese had their way with track and field through to the mid 90s. All we have now is a continuation of that muck with a few select countries thinking they are the beez knees, the ducks nuts. The people with the genetic gifts. Load of crap IMO. They simply dope more and test far less than other countries. Jamaica being prime candidate no.1.

Victor Conte says he observed steroids made all his male sprinters go 0.2 seconds faster.

If you factor in the other drugs I'd say they make you go 0.1 to 0.2 seconds faster so I'd put a clean world record at 9.8-9.9 seconds.

 

[darwin553]

Nah I reckon Bolt's clean - he most likely gets his speed from his gigantic frame and the ability to stride further than anyone that has ever run that I have seen. Dopers come from sprinters who derive their times from purely power - Johnson, Lewis, Greene.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Nah I reckon Bolt's clean - he most likely gets his speed from his gigantic frame and the ability to stride further than anyone that has ever run that I have seen. Dopers come from sprinters who derive their times from purely power - Johnson, Lewis, Greene.

Steroids might be the difference between Bolt being a lanky, flimsy sprinter (like a lot of tall guys) and having enough power to make use of his long legs /strides.

As Ashenden said "The winner in a doped race is not the person who trained the hardest but the person who trained the hardest and who's physiology adapted best to the drugs".

 

[horsinabout]

Nah I reckon Bolt's clean - he most likely gets his speed from his gigantic frame and the ability to stride further than anyone that has ever run that I have seen. Dopers come from sprinters who derive their times from purely power - Johnson, Lewis, Greene.

Bolts speed comes from power, not his size or stride , but pure power!! Because he is larger he needs even more power than the smaller guys because he has to shift his big frame and get his stride moving. Even more in Bolts case as he is slightly slower leaving the blocks because of his higher centre of gravity. Therefore needs more power to accelerate.

 

[darwin553]

Bolts speed comes from power, not his size or stride , but pure power!! Because he is larger he needs even more power than the smaller guys because he has to shift his big frame and get his stride moving. Even more in Bolts case as he is slightly slower leaving the blocks because of his higher centre of gravity. Therefore needs more power to accelerate.

This doesn't make much sense at all. Is power equated with energy exhausted? I believe it is and purely someone with Bolt's frame does not have to run as hard (and therefore use as much 'power') as someone that is shorter than him.

 

[darwin553]

Bolts speed comes from power, not his size or stride , but pure power!! Because he is larger he needs even more power than the smaller guys because he has to shift his big frame and get his stride moving. Even more in Bolts case as he is slightly slower leaving the blocks because of his higher centre of gravity. Therefore needs more power to accelerate.

This doesn't make much sense at all. Is power equated with energy exhausted? I believe it is and purely someone with Bolt's frame does not have to run as hard (and therefore use as much 'power') as someone that is shorter than him.

Therefore needs more power to accelerate

Hang on. Hasn't the starts he has shown been consistent with that of the size he has?

 

[Galic Ho]

Victor Conte says he observed steroids made all his male sprinters go 0.2 seconds faster.

If you factor in the other drugs I'd say they make you go 0.1 to 0.2 seconds faster so I'd put a clean world record at 9.8-9.9 seconds.

This discussion has been brought up in other athletics threads. Carl Lewis was the benchmark. His early 80s times. Nothing under 9.9 seconds. All consistent and showing a natural progression.

Assuming he is the natural limit, I question any time under 9.9. Anything under 10 is questionable IMO. Only one or two naturally clean should be able to break it. Now if you can't crack 9.8, you're not good enough. To think 13 years ago the WR was 9.79 and anything under 9.9 was lightning quick. Not anymore!

 

[blackcat]

Did u know that Donovan Bailey and Usain Bolt are the only two record breaking sprinters, post Ben Johnson, not to be tainted with positive tests. Yes and Bailey is so proud of his achievement that he goes into schools and tells the kids how you can achieve this greatness on healthy eating and vitamin pills. True story, heard Bailey say all of this last week.

thats what Hulk Hogan told all the kids.

he never told them he was having the sex with his daughter's BFF. overage. but only just.

 

[blackcat]

This doesn't make much sense at all. Is power equated with energy exhausted? I believe it is and purely someone with Bolt's frame does not have to run as hard (and therefore use as much 'power') as someone that is shorter than him.

physics m8. he has to accelerate a heavier unit.

that is why after Beijing, i dont think he could get faster on the 100. because it was his sweetspot. he put on about 1 kg a year of muscle since beijing. now that muscle might be type 1 muscle fibres, but that does not have a perfect 1-1 correlation with 100m run. just cos you squat more, or vertical weighted squat more, or vertical jump more, does not axiomatically mean it all goes towards a faster specimen on the track.

bolt has put on about 5kg just looking at his physique, since beijing. his has to accelerate those 5kg up to terminal velocity. i say, his youthful beijing physique, was a sweetspot, that he over-judged, and doubled up, when it only had an inverse effect.

 

[blackcat]

Victor Conte says he observed steroids made all his male sprinters go 0.2 seconds faster.

If you factor in the other drugs I'd say they make you go 0.1 to 0.2 seconds faster so I'd put a clean world record at 9.8-9.9 seconds.

no chance for bolt. he was a 400 runner in jr. i think there is a reason why carl lewis only tall sprinter. too much explosive fibre needed to accelerate to terminal velocity. cant do that out of the blocks if tall.

 

[darwin553]

Nothing here in the 2012 Olympic 100m final illustrates to me that Bolt is doping - where is the same acceleration as the other sprinters? The catching up at about the 50m and the breaking away is again consistent with his physique, is it not ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O7K-8G2nwU&feature=player_detailpage&t=282

 

[blackcat]

Nothing here in the 2012 Olympic 100m final illustrates to me that Bolt is doping - where is the same acceleration as the other sprinters? The catching up at about the 50m and the breaking away is again consistent with his physique, is it not ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O7K-8G2nwU&feature=player_detailpage&t=282

you do not understand darwin.

there has never been tall sprinters in the 100, cos they have to get out of the gate. and tall athletes cant.

 

[darwin553]

you do not understand darwin.

there has never been tall sprinters in the 100, cos they have to get out of the gate. and tall athletes cant.

Failing that, how can you say that his involvement in the 200m has no bearing in his stamina in the back end of the 100m compared to his rivals?

 

[horsinabout]

Nothing here in the 2012 Olympic 100m final illustrates to me that Bolt is doping - where is the same acceleration as the other sprinters? The catching up at about the 50m and the breaking away is again consistent with his physique, is it not ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O7K-8G2nwU&feature=player_detailpage&t=282

Bolt's extra power, speed endurance kicks in at 50m, as due to his size he starts slightly slower from the blocks. He needs more power due to his size, has more power due to his size, because he is bigger = more muscle - but there is a limit with bulk (See also BC's post on this for explanation). Last 20m his leg range helps, but not without power input first to get cadence going.

I am afraid you have already undermined your own argument re Bolt doping, as you said the small guy's need more power, so they dope. Well you are wrong, the large Bolt needs more power to go sub 10secs (but once he has more power then and only then does his leg range help).

Failing that, how can you say that his involvement in the 200m has no bearing in his stamina in the back end of the 100m compared to his rivals?

Because you need more power and less speed endurance in the 100m as compared to the 200m

 

[the sceptic]

Bolt clean? lol that is almost more delusional than thinking Dawg is clean. Imagine if Bolt starts doping then, he will run like 9.3 in the 100m

 

[darwin553]

Because you need more power and less speed endurance in the 100m as compared to the 200m

As a pure 100m only sprinter this is true but you can't tell me that his racing in the 200m doesn't prepare him better for the back end of the 100m.

Just like if you look at swimming and consistently see a swimmer who is also competing for top honours in the 200m whatever discipline being strong in the back end of the 100m compared to other swimmers who are only primed for the 100m. Are those 200m swimmers doping too?

 

[blackcat]

Failing that, how can you say that his involvement in the 200m has no bearing in his stamina in the back end of the 100m compared to his rivals?

they all are decelerating in the 100 from 60 metres onwards. it is just UB' long stride length that gives the perception he is holding speed/going faster