Usain Bolt/Carl Lewis

[del1962]

a quick google search suggested around 13% of energy in wind resistance.

so over 100m 10% more resistance would be 0.1-0.2s difference. stride length, cadence, wind resistance, etc would all have some role at start, but I have no idea about how much effect each has as I'm not a sports scientist.

Suppose a longer stride and lower cadence makes it harder to accelerate though (but that's just a guess).

I don't think Bolt is the fastest out the blocks, I would think air resistance might effect a smaller athlete more though

 

[darwin553]

I think his stride length is something that gives Bolt an advantage.

This is a definite fact.

 

[darwin553]

I don't think Bolt is the fastest out the blocks, I would think air resistance might effect a smaller athlete more though

Also another fair observation.

 

[blackcat]

I don't think Bolt is the fastest out the blocks, I would think air resistance might effect a smaller athlete more though

ceteris paribus

if athlete is clean, capare Bolt^clean Bolt^Beijing doped.

has no relevance comparing Bolt to a field of other dopers, and doped himself. This is irrelevant, well, it IS relevant insofar as a tall athlete, has demonstated ability to neutralise the advantage of smaller athletes out of the blocks.

 

[blackcat]

he got the thyroid from dr brown in houston

the growth hormone don't work properly without thyroid

hgh and testo synergy works super for the explosive events. which in 99% of track, sans womens 10 thousand, and the marathons.

 

[blackcat]

The only argument I can see about power is yours and you argue that the power he uses is abnormal considering his size and the amount of force that is needed to move his body but how do you explain his tardy starts? If he had an abnormal power to weight ratio, wouldn't he get off the line much better? Your argument makes no sense

taller athletes are slower out of blocks, because they have longer levers. think about an athlete with short arms benchpressing 100kgs. it is easier than an athlete with inspector gadget arms and benchpressing 100kgs. its more work done in a physics equation/formula.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Drag is not determined simply by size (frontal area). There are four other properties that also must be considered: form factor/Cd, length, mass, and sectional density. For all runners/riders of 'normal' proportions, we safely can discount Cd and length, but that still leaves differences in mass and sectional density. All other things being equal, Newton's second law (conservation of momentum) favours those who are more massive or who have the higher sectional density. So a taller runner who also is proportionally thicker than a shorter competitor also likely will have better aerodynamic efficiency.

taller athletes are slower out of blocks, because they have longer levers....

That would explain why 6'5" (1.95m) Bolt always is the slowest man out of the blocks.




Except that Bolt is NEVER the slowest man out of the blocks.

 

[blackcat]

That would explain why 6'5" (1.95m) Bolt always is the slowest man out of the blocks.




Except that Bolt is NEVER the slowest man out of the blocks.

the point we have been trying to make.

this is why tall athletes never had a shot at 100.

also why, the wr in the 100, if you double the time, is always (has always been) more than the 200 time. cos of acceleration out of the blocks, is much greater cost than a 200bend + only one start

 

[D-Queued]

taller athletes are slower out of blocks, because they have longer levers. think about an athlete with short arms benchpressing 100kgs. it is easier than an athlete with inspector gadget arms and benchpressing 100kgs. its more work done in a physics equation/formula.

Facts.

Fact is, we are dealing with 'experts'.

Don't confuse facts with expert opinion.

As such, here are the rules:

RULE 702. TESTIMONY BY EXPERT WITNESSES

A witness who is qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education may testify in the form of an opinion or otherwise if:

(a) the expert’s scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will help the trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue;

-> The members here are qualified experts as they have managed to create their own account and are authorized to post. They have had the opportunity to read other posts, even those they disagree with. As such, they are sufficiently skilled in the science and technical issues.

(b) the testimony is based on sufficient facts or data;

-> Bolt has finished in front of the other guys. Ergo, he is the fastest.
-> The other guys tested positive. Ergo, Bolt is clean.
-> Bolt is taller than the other guys. Ergo, tall guys are faster.

(c) the testimony is the product of reliable principles and methods; and

-> I saw it with my own eyes.

(d) the expert has reliably applied the principles and methods to the facts of the case.

-> I watched the instant replay.
-> Bolt is Jamaican. There is no dope in Jamaica.

Dave.

 

[blackcat]

^ was supporting Styrbjorn Sterki just to clarify.

 

[D-Queued]

^ was supporting Styrbjorn Sterki just to clarify.

Yup.

And I was quoting your response to this:

... Your argument makes no sense

Your argument makes perfect sense. But, then we have bias influencing the facts.

Dave.

 

[blackcat]

Yup.

And I was quoting your response to this:



Your argument makes perfect sense. But, then we have bias influencing the facts.

Dave.

ta Dave
I should have given more credit to StyrBjorn 4 understanding my response to him.

tnx for support

tho, Bolt should really do the world a favour and demonstrate what dope can do by taking on the 400,200,100 treble.

i think he would do it if there were not quallies/qualies, then semi's then the final. i think in the 100 there are quallies quarters and the semi before the final. i am not sure about the 200. makes it impossible to take down the 400 also, even if spread over a 6 day meet.

the swimmers can do it. phelps, lochte, thorpe, all had a similar program. but they do not have the impact on track, all isometric, non-impact aerobic effot (some anaerobic, or sprint effort). c wiggins athens, when he could do a IP, TeamP, Madison, and points. dont think he rode points there.

But Ed Clancy of GB rides a heavy program with Omnium, and Teams.

 

[del1962]

ta Dave
I should have given more credit to StyrBjorn 4 understanding my response to him.

tnx for support

tho, Bolt should really do the world a favour and demonstrate what dope can do by taking on the 400,200,100 treble.

i think he would do it if there were not quallies/qualies, then semi's then the final. i think in the 100 there are quallies quarters and the semi before the final. i am not sure about the 200. makes it impossible to take down the 400 also, even if spread over a 6 day meet.

the swimmers can do it. phelps, lochte, thorpe, all had a similar program. but they do not have the impact on track, all isometric, non-impact aerobic effot (some anaerobic, or sprint effort). c wiggins athens, when he could do a IP, TeamP, Madison, and points. dont think he rode points there.

But Ed Clancy of GB rides a heavy program with Omnium, and Teams.

Its not like they are asking him to treble up like Zatopek.

Would love to see James and Rudisha both try to emulate Albeto Juantorena though, that would be special

 

[blackcat]

dont know much about T&F to tell the truth. But with the specialisation, would it not be more difficult to take down the 1,2,4 hundred today. maybe against Carl Lewis' competitors.

Cos Bolt could prolly pull down Johnson's 4 wr. so he could hold all three WR. But he would be really asking alot, to win all three gold in the Olympics, when the 400 athletes are threatening Johnson's WR themselves. That would have to slow him in the other two disciplines.

heck, i forget, Carl was doing the long jump too. did he qualify for the 200 for the americans in LA also? pretty impressive program. was not UB talking about doing the lj too?

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Bolt now world champ with a time of 9.78.

Was it just me or did he look tense as hell throughout the week? Not at all acting in the way he has at past championships.

He came out on the first day to "Don't worry every little thing is going to be alright" not sure if it was by choice but it looked fitting; seemed to have a lot on his mind.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Skimmed over a couple of American and British articles about Bolt, the Americans are not shy to report that Bolt looked worried and didn't celebrate victory whereas the English articles focus on hyperbole and nauseating levels of aggrandisement.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9558216&src=desktop

 

[The Hitch]

Skimmed over a couple of American and British articles about Bolt, the Americans are not shy to report that Bolt looked worried and didn't celebrate victory whereas the English articles focus on hyperbole and nauseating levels of aggrandisement.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9558216&src=desktop

I don't understand what you mean by "bolt looked worried"

 

[Aristarchus]

dont know much about T&F to tell the truth. But with the specialisation, would it not be more difficult to take down the 1,2,4 hundred today. maybe against Carl Lewis' competitors.

Cos Bolt could prolly pull down Johnson's 4 wr. so he could hold all three WR. But he would be really asking alot, to win all three gold in the Olympics, when the 400 athletes are threatening Johnson's WR themselves. That would have to slow him in the other two disciplines.

heck, i forget, Carl was doing the long jump too. did he qualify for the 200 for the americans in LA also? pretty impressive program. was not UB talking about doing the lj too?

If you mean the 1984 Olympics, he did the 200 there, too. That was the year he won 4 gold medals (4x100, 100, 200, and the long jump). Somewhere I read an interview where Lewis described himself as a long jumper who also sprinted.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

I don't understand what you mean by "bolt looked worried"

Everytime I saw him on TV prior to the final race he had a worried look on his face. Usually he either looks like he's enjoying himself or focused. Once the race was over he barely celebrated.

 

[darwin553]

Everytime I saw him on TV prior to the final race he had a worried look on his face. Usually he either looks like he's enjoying himself or focused. Once the race was over he barely celebrated.

Maybe something else was going on in his life that was dominating his thoughts - non-doping related of course

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Maybe something else was going on in his life that was dominating his thoughts - non-doping related of course

Maybe, it's conceivable.

He could also have been more concerned that he's had to answer a lot of questions about doping, with the positive tests of his rivals and fellow Jamaican athletes. It's also possible that the ongoing Italian criminal investigation into Asafa Powell and his entourage will uncover some things.

 

[Race Radio]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130819/lax-drug-testing-in-jamaican-track-and-field/?sct=mr_t11_a2

In the 5 months prior to the 2012 Olympics Jamaican anti doping performed 1 out of competition tests.......yes, one. Only one

 

[sniper]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130819/lax-drug-testing-in-jamaican-track-and-field/?sct=mr_t11_a2

In the 5 months prior to the 2012 Olympics Jamaican anti doping performed 1 out of competition tests.......yes, one. Only one

Bolt is IAAF's golden goose.
Here's Diack declaring Bolt clean:
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/doping-leichtathletik-boss-diack-vertraut-bolt-a-914987.html
And some high ranked female IAAF official also said prior to the WC that Bolt is a 100% clean and that she'd put her hand in the fire for that. Go figure.

Here some names of IAAF councel members.
http://www.iaaf.org/about-iaaf/structure/council
Even Odriozola, the Galgo guy, is there.
Bubka, Kiplagat. Sebastian Coe, and a whole bunch of white board criminals right there. (and only four or five women there, go figure)
Who of those is interested in cleaning house?

 

[Galic Ho]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130819/lax-drug-testing-in-jamaican-track-and-field/?sct=mr_t11_a2

In the 5 months prior to the 2012 Olympics Jamaican anti doping performed 1 out of competition tests.......yes, one. Only one

Ban the entire nation if they keep this crap up.

Competition when doped isn't fair. That is just a joke. Accident? Coincidence? Hell no! Deliberate and planned. Of course in the preceding 3 months before the Olympics, Jamaica had no people in key roles needed for testing! BS sonny boy!

Troll some more for us Jamaica. Troll some more.

 

[D-Queued]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130819/lax-drug-testing-in-jamaican-track-and-field/?sct=mr_t11_a2

In the 5 months prior to the 2012 Olympics Jamaican anti doping performed 1 out of competition tests.......yes, one. Only one

Who'd they get to volunteer, and how much were they paid?

At the same time, of course, any OOC testing represents an infinite improvement as none had been conducted previously.

From 2008:

"Jamaica does not have an independent, out-of-competition testing program for its athletes, nor has it joined the Caribbean Regional Anti-Doping Organization."

Dave.