USP Postal Train in the Mountains...

[gregrowlerson]

You are a very sad, little person. I had a go at your post. You had a go at a poster, being me. Is that necessary. Yes I did watch a lot of the 2005 tour de france and also have it on DVD. I don't see how my age is relevant. George Hincapie's BMC connection is irrelevant. Your clinic reference was also unnecessary. Crawl back into your little hole please.

Stage 8 Pforzheim - Gérardmer
2 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team
6 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team
10 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team
20 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel

The 2nd best placed Discovery Channel rider was 1:25 back. Klodi actually attacked from the leaders and got the gap, no breakaway.

Stage 10: Brignoud - Courchevel
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel
9 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 2:14
13 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team st
19 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 3:59
24 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 5.18
35 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 6:38
36 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team st
47 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 10.16
48 Jose Azevedo (Por) Discovery Channel st

Stage 14: Agde - Ax-3 Domaines
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 0.56
4 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.16
9 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 2.06
11 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 3.06
16 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 4.18
29 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 8.09
33 Daniele Nardello (Ita) T-Mobile Team 9.35
35 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team 11.24
40 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 13.28


Stage 15: Lézat-sur-Lèze - Saint-Lary Soulan (Pla d'Adet),
1 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel *
7 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 5:04
8 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team 6.28
9 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team st
12 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 7.33
18 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 9.32
22 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 11.27
27 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 12.17
37 Jose Azevedo (Por) Discovery Channel 16.11
42 Jose Luis Rubiera (Spa) Discovery Channel 20.41
43 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel st

* Hincapie's win was from a breakaway

Stage 20: Saint Etienne TT
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 1.11.46
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 0.23
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 1.16
8 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 2.25
11 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 3.09
24 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 4.45
31 Jose Luis Rubiera (Spa) Discovery Channel 5.24
33 Daniele Nardello (Ita) T-Mobile Team 5.37
34 Tobias Steinhauser (Ger) T-Mobile Team 5.40
38 Pavel Padrnos (Cze) Discovery Channel 5:53


Note Kloden was out of the race.

Nice post auscyclefan94. Yep, that year wasn't so much about the train. Lance was too good for the others regardless of teammates, as the final TT highlights.

What I most remember about Lance's super domestiques was:

Heras' incredible performances in '02.
Azevedo destroying virtually the entire peleton at La Mongie and PDB in '04.
Landis doing an incredible job of pace setting for a lot of the Queen stage in the Alps, later in the same year.

But '03 was where LA's teammates were of most important. They helped him directly to gain time in the TTT over Ullrich; a small amount of time which proved crucial later on. Without those gains Jan would have gotten into yellow and perhaps have been allowed to ride a little smarter tactically.

 

[thehog]

Vaughters mentions this stage in the infamous IM chat. Saying that Lance was so p!ssed after the stage 8 that he demanded a full refill for the entire team that night.

(Cyclevaughters: it's why they all got dropped on stage 9 - no refill yet - then on the rest day - boom 800ml of packed cells)


Ullrich should have attacked that stage not Kloden.

2005 was a strange Tour in a lot of ways. Armstrong did f*ck all training that year. He was getting beat up by the Euro press because he spent a lot of time in the US at award shows with Sheryl. He rode a dreadful Paris-Nice and Flanders. Flanders was noted that the Quickstep train roade up to him and told him to get off the front because he was going too slow.

Anyway most of us had written him off but then he came out and smashed Ullrich in the opening time trial and apart from Stage 8 was never troubled.

2005 was also the year Verbruggen dropped the reference to the Sysmex machine and the donation etc. to head off criticism that Lance's form was somewhat "unbelievable". There was even a moment when Verbruggen asked if anti-doping control could lead Lance past the journalists compound on stage 1.

Yes I did watch a lot of the 2005 tour de france and also have it on DVD. I don't see how my age is relevant. George Hincapie's BMC connection is irrelevant. Your clinic reference was also unnecessary. Crawl back into your little hole please.

Stage 8 Pforzheim - Gérardmer
2 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team
6 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team
10 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team
20 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel

The 2nd best placed Discovery Channel rider was 1:25 back. Klodi actually attacked from the leaders and got the gap, no breakaway.

Stage 10: Brignoud - Courchevel
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel
9 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 2:14
13 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team st
19 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 3:59
24 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 5.18
35 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 6:38
36 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team st
47 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 10.16
48 Jose Azevedo (Por) Discovery Channel st

Stage 14: Agde - Ax-3 Domaines
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 0.56
4 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.16
9 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 2.06
11 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 3.06
16 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 4.18
29 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 8.09
33 Daniele Nardello (Ita) T-Mobile Team 9.35
35 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team 11.24
40 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 13.28


Stage 15: Lézat-sur-Lèze - Saint-Lary Soulan (Pla d'Adet),
1 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel *
7 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 5:04
8 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team 6.28
9 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team st
12 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 7.33
18 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 9.32
22 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 11.27
27 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 12.17
37 Jose Azevedo (Por) Discovery Channel 16.11
42 Jose Luis Rubiera (Spa) Discovery Channel 20.41
43 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel st

* Hincapie's win was from a breakaway

Stage 20: Saint Etienne TT
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 1.11.46
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 0.23
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 1.16
8 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 2.25
11 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 3.09
24 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 4.45
31 Jose Luis Rubiera (Spa) Discovery Channel 5.24
33 Daniele Nardello (Ita) T-Mobile Team 5.37
34 Tobias Steinhauser (Ger) T-Mobile Team 5.40
38 Pavel Padrnos (Cze) Discovery Channel 5:53


Note Kloden was out of the race.

 

[GJB123]

As stated before by others, the list that ACF produced proves .... well ..... absolutely nothing. The strength of USPS wasn't in the fact that they all ended up high in the GC, because that wasn't their goal. Only the chosen one should end up high(est) in the GC. The strength of USPS was in the way in which they controlled the race and the pace and destroyed the entire peloton including, min you, the other GC-contenders they would normally wouldn't be able to hang on to even if their lives depended on it. That was rarely seen before then and has rarely been seen since.

Regards
GJ

 

[Cobblestoned]

Vaughters mentions this stage in the infamous IM chat. Saying that Lance was so p!ssed after the stage 8 that he demanded a full refill for the entire team that night.

(Cyclevaughters: it's why they all got dropped on stage 9 - no refill yet - then on the rest day - boom 800ml of packed cells)


Ullrich should have attacked that stage not Kloden.

2005 was a strange Tour in a lot of ways. Armstrong did f*ck all training that year. He was getting beat up by the Euro press because he spent a lot of time in the US at award shows with Sheryl. He rode a dreadful Paris-Nice and Flanders. Flanders was noted that the Quickstep train roade up to him and told him to get off the front because he was going too slow.

Anyway most of us had written him off but then he came out and smashed Ullrich in the opening time trial and apart from Stage 8 was never troubled.

2005 was also the year Verbruggen dropped the reference to the Sysmex machine and the donation etc. to head off criticism that Lance's form was somewhat "unbelievable". There was even a moment when Verbruggen asked if anti-doping control could lead Lance past the journalists compound on stage 1.

Great stuff again.
This is the stuff dreams are made of. What about facts ?

 

[MrRoboto]

In 2005 Lance's team was considered better than ever. That was until they all got dropped on a 2. category climb at least. Funny thing -- The next climbing stage half the discovery team lead the main GC contenders over the mountains.

My take is that the team seemed uninspired to ride hard for 'soon to be gone'-Lance. Only Hincapie seemed to give a **** really. Once they were dropped they never really came back, unlike f.ex Heras and Landis did when they were at their best. They always came back and started pacing again once the group had slowed down.

Also, T-Mobile was stronger than ever of course. But as said earlier, their tactics sucked. Vino seemed to ride for his own team that year. Maybe they all forgot him, since his kit looked so different from the others ^^

 

[thehog]

In 2005 Lance's team was considered better than ever. That was until they all got dropped on a 2. category climb at least. Funny thing -- The next climbing stage half the discovery team lead the main GC contenders over the mountains.

My take is that the team seemed uninspired to ride hard for 'soon to be gone'-Lance. Only Hincapie seemed to give a **** really. Once they were dropped they never really came back, unlike f.ex Heras and Landis did when they were at their best. They always came back and started pacing again once the group had slowed down.

Also, T-Mobile was stronger than ever of course. But as said earlier, their tactics sucked. Vino seemed to ride for his own team that year. Maybe they all forgot him, since his kit looked so different from the others ^^

Popo did a great ride in 2005. Day after the rest day on the first mountain stage Lance sent him to the front and he blew the peloton apart including Ullrich and Vino. Only Valverde, the Chicken and Mancebo could hang on. That's an impressive bunch isn't it!

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

In 2005 Lance's team was considered better than ever. That was until they all got dropped on a 2. category climb at least. Funny thing -- The next climbing stage half the discovery team lead the main GC contenders over the mountains.

My take is that the team seemed uninspired to ride hard for 'soon to be gone'-Lance. Only Hincapie seemed to give a **** really. Once they were dropped they never really came back, unlike f.ex Heras and Landis did when they were at their best. They always came back and started pacing again once the group had slowed down.

Also, T-Mobile was stronger than ever of course. But as said earlier, their tactics sucked. Vino seemed to ride for his own team that year. Maybe they all forgot him, since his kit looked so different from the others ^^

As I recall, didn't T-Mob burn through Kloden to chase down Vino after he attacked on one stage?

 

[MrRoboto]

Popo did a great ride in 2005. Day after the rest day on the first mountain stage Lance sent him to the front and he blew the peloton apart including Ullrich and Vino. Only Valverde, the Chicken and Mancebo could hang on. That's an impressive bunch isn't it!

You are right. Popo rode pretty well. He had something to ride for though (youth classification), and seemed to be halfway spared to let him have it too.

As I recall, didn't T-Mob burn through Kloden to chase down Vino after he attacked on one stage?

As far as I remember, it even happened twice on that stage.

 

[Cobblestoned]

As I recall, didn't T-Mob burn through Kloden to chase down Vino after he attacked on one stage?

Which stage ?

 

[MrRoboto]

Stage 14, I think.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

EPO-Lard-Trek doing a very good blue train impression today in the TDS.

 

[jobiwan]

EPO-Lard-Trek doing a very good blue train impression today in the TDS.

In the end, they didn't do a very good job, though.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I think that is down to the Schlecks being show ponies more than anything else.

 

[bommels]

Watching the stage to Morzine in 2003 on the col de la Ramaz made a huge impact on me. Virenque won that day, but to see the boys in blue putting everybody in the red was just surreal, and made me realise something was not right.

My interest in pro racing declined ever since.

 

[Cobblestoned]

You are right. Popo rode pretty well. He had something to ride for though (youth classification), and seemed to be halfway spared to let him have it too.


As far as I remember, it even happened twice on that stage.

So, Mr. Klöden can burned down even 2 times a stage. Why not 3-4-5-6 times ?

If you and Mr.Mrs call that "burning Klöden by just chasing down Vino", that shows your whole knowledge of cycling and your limited abilities to read a race.
Welcome.
Didn't expect much from Mr.Mrs. anyway.
Just go on. Great entertainment.

 

[Cobblestoned]

EPO-Lard-Trek doing a very good blue train impression today in the TDS.

Ha ha ha ha, ha ha hahaha
EPO-Lard-Trek, hahahahaha
Man, you are so funny. How long did this one take you. 2 days ?
I guess protection period for Leopard and it's riders is slowly over, after they lost a teammate.
Time to go full genius on them again.
win-win situation.
If they do good - EPO-train, if not, they suck and another reason for MrMrs having big time.

What are you actually doing in a cycling forum ? Pollute the air ?
Even showing compassion would be a big waste, when it comes to you and your posts, that show your love for cycling.
Just go away, man.

 

[Barrus]

Don't take your insults and attack upon one another from one thread to the other. The warning by Susan in that thread was not there solely to be ignored and for the same behaviour to continue somewhere else

 

[MrRoboto]

So, Mr. Klöden can burned down even 2 times a stage. Why not 3-4-5-6 times ?

If you and Mr.Mrs call that "burning Klöden by just chasing down Vino", that shows your whole knowledge of cycling and your limited abilities to read a race.
Welcome.
Didn't expect much from Mr.Mrs. anyway.
Just go on. Great entertainment.

Vino was chased down two times by his own teammates on that stage. First by Ullrich, then Klöden. It showed a complete lack of teamwork between Vino and the rest of T-Mobile.

If you want to nitpick...sure, go ahead. But your degrading tone is just pathetic.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The strength of USPS was in the way in which they controlled the race and the pace and destroyed the entire peloton including, other GC-contenders they would normally wouldn't be able to hang on to even if their lives depended on it. That was rarely seen before then and has rarely been seen since.

Watching the stage to Morzine in 2003 on the col de la Ramaz made a huge impact on me. Virenque won that day, but to see the boys in blue putting everybody in the red was just surreal.

The day after this was the ride to Alpe d'Huez, and it was something to see the Postal train of Hincapie, Landis, Rubiera, Beltran, Heras and Armstrong at the front of every col, powering over, and dropping climbing specialists for the second day in succession. Even Gilbert Simoni, who said he'd try to contend for the podium that year, couldn't keep up on the earlier climbs the pace was so fast.

Surreal is a good word.

 

[Polish]

Watching the stage to Morzine in 2003 on the col de la Ramaz made a huge impact on me. Virenque won that day, but to see the boys in blue putting everybody in the red was just surreal, and made me realise something was not right.

My interest in pro racing declined ever since.

It was the Blue Train's job to do the chasing.
Other teams latched on.
Awesome stage. Awesome Tour that year too.
Up there with the 89 Tour for the Best Tour in the last 25years.

Maybe THAT is the real reason your interest has been declining?
2003 was the most recent Super Awesome TdF no question.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Poor Americans

Sounds like those US Postal years were a lot harder for them, than for the Germans. lol
huh, CN Americans are so so ashamed of Lance and his awesome team, and they even call perfection and giving all for THE one goal "surreal".

Another win-win situation for the haters.
Lance only rode the Tour and 3 weeks a year, wahwahwah -> wrong
Lance and his team kicked all asses during that 3 weeks, surreal, wahwahwah -> wrong

 

[Anonymous]

wow, two hours and this ones not been put in the clinic yet. Impressive.

was inevitable really.

 

[VeloCity]

and they even call perfection..."surreal".

Yep. Perfection is most definitely surreal.

 

[Polish]

Best Team Ever

When all the Fanboys and Haters have left, and the Cycling Historians can debate the All Time Greatest TEAM in Cycling - Postal/Disco will be amongst the handful of contenders for the Top Honor.

Lance could NOT have won his Seven without them.

21 riders.
There were NO "lesser domestiques" among them.
Many would have been Team Leaders on other Teams.
Super Domestiques and more Super Domestiques.
Household names.

GT Leader Domestiques....Heras, Hamilton, Landis, Vandedvelde, Savoldelli

Experienced Captains.....Ekimov, Hincapie, Frankie

Climbing Specialists......Heras, Rubiera, Beltran, Azevedo

Super Domestiques.......Noval, Padrnos, Joachim, Vasseur, Livingston,

Notable others....Kjaergaard, Vaughters, Popovych, Derame, Meinert

21 riders.
Greatest Team Ever.
Dynasty of Dynasties.
'Il Dynissimo'

"oh, but the Blue Train was just too awesome in the mountains, waa"
Yes they were, boys, yes they were, grrrr.

 

[VeloCity]

When all the Fanboys and Haters have left, and the Cycling Historians can debate the All Time Greatest TEAM in Cycling - Postal/Disco will be amongst the handful of contenders for the Top Honor.

Lance could NOT have won his Seven without them.

21 riders.
There were NO "lesser domestiques" among them.
Many would have been Team Leaders on other Teams.
Super Domestiques and more Super Domestiques.
Household names.

GT Leader Domestiques....Heras, Hamilton, Landis, Vandedvelde, Savoldelli

Experienced Captains.....Ekimov, Hincapie, Frankie

Climbing Specialists......Heras, Rubiera, Beltran, Azevedo

Super Domestiques.......Noval, Padrnos, Joachim, Vasseur, Livingston,

Notable others....Kjaergaard, Vaughters, Popovych, Derame, Meinert

21 riders.
Greatest Team Ever.
Dynasty of Dynasties.
'Il Dynissimo'

"oh, but the Blue Train was just too awesome in the mountains, waa"
Yes they were, boys, yes they were, grrrr.

Well, if all of the teams were doping, which they were, and USPS was the best of them all, then wouldn't that make USPS the greatest doping team ever?