• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Valverde Banned - now can someone DNA test bag 'AC' please?

Page 4 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
May 29, 2010
54
0
0
Visit site
Cerberus said:
If by latin law you mean law as practiced in the Roman Empire then I yield to your obviously superior knowledge of Roman law. If you think that France, Spain and other modern democratic countries operates according to a presumption of guilt I would advice that you pay less attention to urban legends about Anglo-Saxon supiority and more attention to Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights to which all EU countries are signatories.

I wrote you a lengthy response but it got "lost" when I tried to preview it.
You figure it out; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)
"With respect to criminal procedure, certain civil law systems are based upon a variant of the inquisitorial system rather than the adversarial system. This kind of judicial organization is sometimes criticized as lacking a presumption of innocence. Most European countries, however, are parties to the European Convention on Human Rights and Article 6 guarantees "the right to a fair trial" and the presumption of innocence."
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
0
0
Visit site
Moose McKnuckles said:
Ever heard of Antonio Colom? The guy currently serving a 2 year suspension?

Antonio Colom?

Who did he ride for during Peurto?

Here is a list of the 2005 Manolo's Liberty TdF Roster:
91 Roberto Heras
92 Joseba Beloki
93 Alberto Contador
94 Allan Davis
95 Igor González de Galdeano
96 Jörg Jaksche
97 Luis León Sánchez 21
98 Marcos Serrano 32
99 Ángel Vicioso 28

Here is a list from Manolo's Liberty Team that were bunched together on the Puerto File:
R. H. (Roberto HERAS)
M. S. (Marcos SERRANO)
J. B. (Joseba BELOKI)
I. G. (Igor GONZÁLEZ)
A. V. (Ángel VICIOSO)
J. J. (Jorg JAKSCHE)
A. D. (Alan DAVIS)
L. (sin identificar)
A. C. (Alberto CONTADOR)

Get out your LOLCATS Decoder Ring to try to connect the dots...
Antonio Colom?

How much Money did Manolo have with him when visiting Dr Fuentes?
 

ttrider

BANNED
Apr 23, 2010
386
0
0
Visit site
Names in that Puerto document:

Santiago Botero TDF polka dot and world tt
Constantino Zaballa Classica San Sebastien
Oscar Sevilla TDF white Jersey, GT top 10s
Jorge Jaksche Paris Nice
Savoldelli 2 Giros
Basso (Brillo) 2 Giros 2 tour podiums
Simoni 2 Giros
Angel Casero 1 Vuelta
Gutierrez (Buffalo) 2nd at Giro
Michele Scarponi Several decent results
Giampolo Caruso -
Tyler Hamilton LBL, TT olimpics
Santiago Perez several Vuelta stages and a VAM in excess of 2000!
Roberto Heras 3 Vueltas 1 taken away for doping
Isidro Nozal 2nd in Vuelta
Serrano -
Vicisoso -
Ivan Mayo Several top GT results and several weeklong races
Allessandro Valverde 1 vuelta lbl pro tour
Jesus Hernandez -
Mancebo TDF White Jersey 2x Vuelta podium
Joseba Beloki 3 GT podiums
Javier LLorente -
David Blanco -
Eladio Jimenez -
Javier Rodriguez -
David bernaubau -
Ruben plaza Several top results
David Latasa -
Alberto Contador Stacked Palmares 2 tours 1 Giro 1 Vuelta
Allan Davis -
Sergio Paulino Olipmpic Silver
Luis Leon Sanchez Paris Nice

and a few lesser one i don't really no about
i have no context for these names as i speak no spanish but some of these were a surprise like hamilton and simoni (simoni criticised basso so heavily and hamilton was done by then)

Some amazing results including 15 GTs!
 
Mar 11, 2009
748
0
0
Visit site
Dewulf said:
I so agree with this - beating Spartacus at his own game with that build?? If I recall correctly Fab was actually a bit upset at losing that stage to Chickacus.

Edit: but back to the bag in question, I'll go with others saying it likely isn't his, but that doesn't mean he's clean. I mean we all know the famous doctors but jeez, couldn't most doctors learn this stuff and make a little side cash out of it if they wanted to...


How about when Fabian and Yens dropped Valverde etc a couple of years ago at the tour, i think it was on the Croix de Fer or the Col de Glandon.
Even more impressive.
 
Sep 21, 2009
2,978
0
0
Visit site
Polish said:
...

How much Money did Manolo have with him when visiting Dr Fuentes?

People seems to forget that Manolo was arrested by the police with a large amount of money after visiting Dr Fuentes. Did Dr Fuentes pay Manolo? Was Manolo's money for other purpose? The link between Manolo and Dr Fuentes is undeniable, but Manolo's money in this case proves nothing. Look somewhere else.
 
Jun 1, 2010
1
0
0
Visit site
question of maths

maybe i'm dimwit, but could anybody explain me how come that if valverde is suspended for 2 years in reality he cannot race in italy for 2 years and 7 months? Sure according to regulations he should get a maximum of 2 years sentence, that would mean that he shouldn't race in italy until 11th may 2011 then ,why they make the worldban sentence until 2012??? what about Italian soil? he should race in italy from 11th May 2011 but not in the rest of the world, All seems a bit kafkian and ilogic...
Then we have the brat of Ricco who only got a sentence of 19 months. I don't see much justice in the whole affair...
 
Sep 21, 2009
2,978
0
0
Visit site
Lamby101 said:
Valverde Banned by DNA matching Puerto blood with a rider. Now can someone DNA test bag labelled 'AC' with a Tour de France winner with the name Alberto Contador please?

The current owner of the bags (i.e., the judge) says that the Law says no.
 
in any case

the future is bright - geneticists instead of gynecologists!

http://www.physorg.com/news194545274.html


(PhysOrg.com) -- Red blood cells, the delivery men that take oxygen to cells all around the body, have short lives. To keep enough of them in circulation, the human body produces around 2 million of these cells every second - even more in response to challenges like severe blood loss.

In a study published today in the Journal of Experimental Medicine, scientists at the European Molecular Biology Laboratory (EMBL) in Monterotondo, Italy, and EMBL’s European Bioinformatics Institute (EMBL-EBI) in Hinxton, UK, have identified two small RNA molecules which ensure that enough red blood cells are produced efficiently, by fine-tuning a number of different genes involved in this process.

“A lot of the effort of blood cell formation, or haematopoiesis, goes into just keeping enough red blood cells in circulation” says Dónal O’Carroll, who led the work at EMBL Monterotondo: “We’ve identified two molecules that help to do so, and which are essential in challenging situations.”
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
0
0
Visit site
Good News Messenger said:
the future is bright - geneticists instead of gynecologists!

http://www.physorg.com/news194545274.html


(PhysOrg.com) -- Red blood cells, the delivery men that take oxygen to cells all around the body, have short lives. To keep enough of them in circulation, the human body produces around 2 million of these cells every second - even more in response to challenges like severe blood loss.

In a study published today in the Journal of Experimental Medicine, scientists at the European Molecular Biology Laboratory (EMBL) in Monterotondo, Italy, and EMBL’s European Bioinformatics Institute (EMBL-EBI) in Hinxton, UK, have identified two small RNA molecules which ensure that enough red blood cells are produced efficiently, by fine-tuning a number of different genes involved in this process.

“A lot of the effort of blood cell formation, or haematopoiesis, goes into just keeping enough red blood cells in circulation” says Dónal O’Carroll, who led the work at EMBL Monterotondo: “We’ve identified two molecules that help to do so, and which are essential in challenging situations.”

Geez, when are these genius scientists going to stop it with all these medical miracles that will help sick people - don't they realize they are screwing over Pro Cycling? Maybe Floyd and his MicroScope can explain these techniques to ashedin and caitlin?

But back to the Original Post - "Where is Alberto's DNA for Puerto match?"

Maybe it would be UNFAIR to single out Alberto - it seems the ENTIRE Manolo Team were implicated in and NONE were sanctioned?

Here is a list of the 2005 Manolo's Liberty TdF Roster:
91 Roberto Heras
92 Joseba Beloki
93 Alberto Contador
94 Allan Davis
95 Igor González de Galdeano
96 Jörg Jaksche
97 Luis León Sánchez 21
98 Marcos Serrano 32
99 Ángel Vicioso 28

Here is a list from Manolo's Liberty Team that were bunched together on the Puerto File:
R. H. (Roberto HERAS)
M. S. (Marcos SERRANO)
J. B. (Joseba BELOKI)
I. G. (Igor GONZÁLEZ)
A. V. (Ángel VICIOSO)
J. J. (Jorg JAKSCHE)
A. D. (Alan DAVIS)
L. (sin identificar)
A. C. (Alberto CONTADOR)
 
Jan 20, 2010
713
0
0
Visit site
Lamby101 said:
Valverde Banned by DNA matching Puerto blood with a rider. Now can someone DNA test bag labelled 'AC' with a Tour de France winner with the name Alberto Contador please?

I don't think there was a bag labeled AC.

A.C. was made reference to in a document along with the whole Wurth team, allegedly a training schedule of some sort. He along with other members were then actually cleared by the court and all the national authorities involved (not just Spain) terminated their investigations.

His name also popped up on wire taps because a rider mentioned him winning a stage.
 
Jan 20, 2010
713
0
0
Visit site
Moose McKnuckles said:
Once again, what appeared in the Fuentes file is just "AC", not Contador's name.
Was it really Contador? Perhaps. But unlike Lance, Conty has never failed a doping test.

Of course, the "never failed a doping test" standard is the red herring we all know it to be.

See my post above yours, AC was indeed written (not his full name) but it was listed with the initials of all the other Wurth team members on one document (a training schedule) so the identity is not in question. Nothing to do with blood, PEDS, or anything else. That's why they were all cleared.
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
0
0
Visit site
Moose McKnuckles said:
Once again, what appeared in the Fuentes file is just "AC", not Contador's name.
Was it really Contador? Perhaps. But unlike Lance, Conty has never failed a doping test.

Of course, the "never failed a doping test" standard is the red herring we all know it to be.

Was it really Valverde?
Was it really Basso?
Was it really Ullrich?

Their names did not appear in the Fuentes File.
But their DNA was in the bag.....
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
0
0
Visit site
Night Rider said:
See my post above yours, AC was indeed written (not his full name) but it was listed with the initials of all the other Wurth team members on one document (a training schedule) so the identity is not in question. Nothing to do with blood, PEDS, or anything else. That's why they were all cleared.

ahhh....a Training Schedule...nothing to do with PEDS....

Training Advice from a OBGYN.

Yes, humble family man Alberto needs advice from OBGYN.
Makes sense - no wonder the team was cleared
 
May 22, 2010
440
0
0
Visit site
icefire said:
Lamby101 said:
Valverde Banned by DNA matching Puerto blood with a rider. Now can someone DNA test bag labelled 'AC' with a Tour de France winner with the name Alberto Contador please?
The current owner of the bags (i.e., the judge) says that the Law says no.
so did Contadope, when he was originally asked, according to LeMonde.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
1
0
Visit site
Polish said:
ahhh....a Training Schedule...nothing to do with PEDS....

Training Advice from a OBGYN.

Yes, humble family man Alberto needs advice from OBGYN.
Makes sense - no wonder the team was cleared

What is worse, getting training advice from a Gyno or from a Hematologist like Ferrari?
 
May 26, 2009
4,114
0
0
Visit site
Publicus said:
I think it would be more eyebrow raising if AC beat Spartacus on a flat TT. His win at Annecy came because he climbed the Cat 3 climb faster than Fabian, but lost all but 3 seconds of that advantage over the last part of the course. (I'll get the exact margin/advantage he had at the top of the Cat 3). For example, if AC beats Fabian at the 51KM flat TT at this year's TdF, then we have something to talk about.

I think it was 46 seconds advantage at the top of the climb.
 
Sep 10, 2009
5,663
0
0
Visit site
I don't think there's many cycling fans who believe that Contador was/is clean - come on, the guy's spent his entire career with Saiz and Bruyneel, climbs with a doped Rasmussen, Ricco, out TT's all the specialists on a flat Paris-Nice prologue course and in the Tour, etc - but fact is, there really isn't any evidence linking him to Fuentes, let alone to any of blood bags.
 
Jan 20, 2010
713
0
0
Visit site
VeloCity said:
I don't think there's many cycling fans who believe that Contador was/is clean - come on...

Oh fair point for sure. But then I don't think any GT riders consistently placing in the top 20 would be clean, certainly not riders who have been around 5-10 years. Therefore I’m not one to go off on individual witch hunts, or conversely claim any rider is clean unless some real evidence exists.

In my opinion, there is no evidence of an AC blood bag. There was some writings on a piece of paper and ramblings of a win on a phone tap of another rider. That was all.
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
0
0
Visit site
Race Radio said:
What is worse, getting training advice from a Gyno or from a Hematologist like Ferrari?

Seriously?

I would MUCH rather get Training Advice from Dr Ferrari than Dr Fuentes.

Heck, I would even choose Dr Carmichael's training advice over Dr Fuente's lol.

But then again, I do not suffer from yeast infections that often