Vaughters confirms past doping by Danielson, others at Garmin

[Froome19]

...and Michael Barry just retired.

He was 36 give him a break..

 

[Froome19]

It's not like CN hacked into JV's email or listened to to phone conversations.
Anything posted on on a forum owned and operated by CN is fair game.
Given that JV spoke about riders who have never openly admitted to doping, I'd say it is definitely a story that needs to be told.
After all, if CN didn't do it, someone else would.

Fair enough, just it may drive JV from posting further. Which would be a shame.

 

[will10]

Surely the headline should be:

"Tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy monkeys cause DS to out his team"

NB - As I asked some of the questions I am not that phased about them being used as the source material - and tbh the thread was linked to. I think looking at the way the article is structured - JV's quotes are there in full but our questions are not. Of course it only then gives half the side of the conversation.

Judging from the early posts in the Jaksche thread, I was thinking of "JV publicly assists bunch of monkeys to open coconut" as a headline.

 

[Granville57]

Seriously though, I find it distasteful on the part of CN.
It would seem that splashing those headlines violates a (perhaps very subtle) unwritten rule of the forum—what happens in Vegas, etc.

I have to imagine that it only causes more grief for JV, seeing that he wasn't actually engaged in an interview "with CN" when posting. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a useful and incredibly unique conduit of information has now been permanently shut down. Why would JV ever want post anything in The Clinic ever again? Is this move by CN supposed encourage any other DSs to join in the conversation?

But I realize that CN (or their handlers, whatever) has been doing their best to whore-out the forum for quite some time. From the scintillating article they posted many moons ago about the most active forum users (brilliant journalism there) to polluting the pages with links and ads (I know, I know, it's the man behind the curtain that's responsible for much of that).

The forum is where the action is. Not just this one, but in general. User-generated content is far more interesting much of the time than the other stuff. (And yes, I understand why, and how, the inherent freedom bestowed upon anonymous bloggers gives them a latitude that mainstream publications simply can't afford, so spare me any self-righteous indignation).

So where does this stunt by CN leave us?
What does this do to further (in a meaningful way) the very platform that allowed such information to come to the surface?

Congratulations.

 

[roundabout]

He didn't. He said omertà wasn't the reason why Garmin didn't sign him, he didn't say he wasn't blacklisted. In fact, he agreed he was, at least on Twitter.

Call me stupid, but now I am at a loss as to why Jaksche couldn't have been signed.

 

[python]

If nothing else just to confirm that he wrote the posts and it wasn't someone who hacked his account.

I too was surprised to read a clinic thread in a story, but it is news.[/QUOTE]
This shows unequivocally that the cn staff writers and edito care about the clinic feeding their business sources...

G

 

[biokemguy]

Am I missing the obvious?

Aren't all the named riders now subject to sanction? I've only read speculation that they were given some sort of immunity or diminished sentence for their testimony to USADA.

I guess since JV outed these guys that must confirm that a plea deal exists?

 

[MacRoadie]

I have to imagine that it only causes more grief for JV, seeing that he wasn't actually engaged in an interview "with CN" when posting.

More grief than outing three riders to a bunch of nameless, faceless people with unknown agendas or motivations on an internet forum? Remember, it's not just the forum regulars and those who interact with JV that can read this stuff.

 

[Poursuivant]

Interesting that they take news from the Clinic. Still waiting for Poursuivant's controversial opinion on Contador's stage win to make the front page...

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

I agree that the forum is a public place, and in principle, the info there is therefore fair game. And to be honest, I'm sure Vaughters knew what he was doing -you don't out riders lightly (or so I hope)-.

Sometimes forums (and the Clinic is a busy one) can swallow and bury threads quickly. Upon reflection, in this very case, it does seem unlikely the info wouldn't have been picked up by someone and propagated.

Still, I would say it would be better form if CN asked permission (which they may have, I dunno). I think having Vaughters on the message board, even shortly, is a very interesting situation for the site, wouldn't want to burn him.

 

[Kender]

Call me stupid, but now I am at a loss as to why Jaksche couldn't have been signed.

the nuts and bolts summary is JJ woudl have had personality issues with the team, was an unrepentant doper, and was (or would be) unwilling to play the team game and become a worker not a leader

 

[Cyivel]

I'm torn on this, on the one hand this is a completely open forum and you don't even need to be a member to read comments, however if he wasn't in anyway asked about them being used for the story I can't help but feel it will discourage him and others from contributing, which for me given how interesting I found the thread in question would be very disappointing.

 

[benzwire]

This thread is bizarre. The news piece was written from stuff that happened in this very forum. It's a forum thread about a news article about a thread in the same forum.

 

[roundabout]

the nuts and bolts summary is JJ woudl have had personality issues with the team, was an unrepentant doper, and was (or would be) unwilling to play the team game and become a worker not a leader

That's what Vaughters wrote yesterday. Presumably even as a reply to me (!).

I am just trying to figure out the whole blacklisted or not situation.

 

[will10]

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
Anyone who thinks I'm a slick talking PR man, guess I, idiotically, proved you wrong. I'm just a dumb ***. Apologies.

 

[ToreBear]

Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters

Anyone who thinks I'm a slick talking PR man, guess I, idiotically, proved you wrong. I'm just a dumb ***. Apologies.

This comment makes me sad. I guess CN didn't ask before they hit the publish button.

That was not very nice of them IMHO.

 

[Deagol]

It has been speculated before in this forum that TD was one of the 10 former team-mates referred to by USADA.

Now wait for Lance to paint TD as a jealous liar wanting to gain publicity...

I just wish that these guys would all band together and hold a press-conference or something, but there are probably reasons why they can’t do this.

 

[Granville57]

More grief than outing three riders to a bunch of nameless, faceless people with unknown agendas or motivations on an internet forum? Remember, it's not just the forum regulars and those who interact with JV that can read this stuff.

Hold on. Regular people can see this too?

Well at least the French won't find out about it. They don't read or speak English.

However, I liken it a bit to Twitter. Of course everyone knows that everyone else can read those 140 characters, but even high-profile media figures tend to be much more candid on Twitter than they are, say, when sitting behind a desk on ESPN. JV is obviously much more candid in here than he would be if sitting down with Sports Illustrated—and I like it like that. I just feel that translating forum posts into headlines is a sure-fire way to ensure that you (we) end up with neither.

 

[MacRoadie]

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
Anyone who thinks I'm a slick talking PR man, guess I, idiotically, proved you wrong. I'm just a dumb ***. Apologies.

In other words, he meant what he said, and f-you to everyone who thinks his anti-doping stance is all PR bull****...

 

[MacRoadie]

This comment makes me sad. I guess CN didn't ask before they hit the publish button.

That was not very nice of them IMHO.

I don't think it means what you think it means...

(Channeling Princess Bride)

 

[Kender]

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
Anyone who thinks I'm a slick talking PR man, guess I, idiotically, proved you wrong. I'm just a dumb ***. Apologies.

hmm

guess that means he was talking like a poster when he responded to CN threads and didn't think through the consequences of his actions.

It probably means we wont see him much any more until all the evidence is out in the open 8(

JV, dont be disheartned by this, we all appreciate you taking the time to offer inside insight into all this.

 

[the big ring]

I found it almost repulsive that JV let that TD bomb go. And incredibly ironic and arrogant that he validates the presence of conspiracy monkeys by responding to anyone here on an ongoing basis.

If you've EVER done a google search of a sentence posted in the Clinic, you will know it gets indexed by said search engine almost instantly.

I don't consider anything here buried from a digital POV.

And the Clinic would surely become more visible now - further cementing its legitimacy in this sphere.

Not bad for a bunch of conspiracy monkeys.

 

[Granville57]

In other words, he meant what he said, and f-you to everyone who thinks his anti-doping stance is all PR bull****...

That's now how I read that. I see it more as, "Damn, I probably shouldn't ever post anything truly interesting in a CN forum ever again."
But that's just me.

Wait, are you trolling me, Mac?

 

[roundabout]

In other words, he meant what he said, and f-you to everyone who thinks his anti-doping stance is all PR bull****...

I don't really agree.

But that's the magic of twitter, you have to get the tea leafs out to figure out what was meant.

 

[131313]

This comment makes me sad. I guess CN didn't ask before they hit the publish button.

That was not very nice of them IMHO.

good lord...it's a public forum, what would he think? no one reads it?

Funny story. Twice, I called out various riders out on the forum, not for doping but for for general jackassy behavior. BOTH TIMES they called me on it, and worse, realized who I was? I'm convinced about 75% of the peloton reads this forum almost in its entirety, and the rest just do a name search to see if anyone's talking about them.

I'm not really sure what Vaughters expected talking smack about those guys. Of course, he didn't say anything that anyone paying attention didn't know already.