Pogi in my opinion needs to win a GT first. Awarding him before that. Bad for this sport. Unless he wins PR, becomes a world champion .... and adds some extra. On top of that other cyclists not doing something like winning all three GTs. As Jonas has hinted.
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Thanks!
But OK i get it. You all feel Pogi should get it this year. Just prepare the papers and i will sign it too.
P.S. Sorry Mathieu, the internet did it again.
P.S. Sorry Mathieu, the internet did it again.
It's between Pogacar and MVDP. I would go for MVDP, mostly because his wins are more difficult to get. Winning San Remo, Roubaix and the World Championship in the same year, is much more difficult than winning RvV and Lombardia in the same year. Pogacar makes it difficult to decide between hem two because he also won a lot of smaller races. Paris-Nice, Amstel, Fleche Wallone, 2nd in the Tour... The list goes on, he has 17 victories this year.
Vingegaard (TDF, couple of stage races) and Evenepoel (LBL, NC RR, WC ITT) had a decent season, but not enough to win the velo d'or.
Vingegaard (TDF, couple of stage races) and Evenepoel (LBL, NC RR, WC ITT) had a decent season, but not enough to win the velo d'or.
Just adding Rogla to the list (TA, Catalunya, Giro, Burgos, third Vuelta*, Emilia). To show on what you must do, to not even get mentioned.
Bar set extremely high if you ask me.
Elos Anjos
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Very hard choice between Pogi and MVDP. None of other riders have a chance.
These two names are advanced more often and one usually reads that Pogacar "failed" to win the Tour. What I'm seeing is that a rider with his season would already be on the race without the Tour: two monuments, stage races, Bronze medal at WCCR. But on top of that he was 2nd at the Tour with two stages....If he's not the Velo d'Or it's because he gets his own standards of excellence given the variety of races he's good at. It's only because Pogacar is Pogacar that being 2nd at the Tour defaces his whole season. If Pogi was considered a sole classics rider that excels at stage races being 2nd in the Tour would be clearly an argument towards his Velo d'Or.
On the other hand, MVDP cannot probably dream of a better season because he does not have much more race types where he excels.
Though choice. Split the Velo d'Or in two.
These two names are advanced more often and one usually reads that Pogacar "failed" to win the Tour. What I'm seeing is that a rider with his season would already be on the race without the Tour: two monuments, stage races, Bronze medal at WCCR. But on top of that he was 2nd at the Tour with two stages....If he's not the Velo d'Or it's because he gets his own standards of excellence given the variety of races he's good at. It's only because Pogacar is Pogacar that being 2nd at the Tour defaces his whole season. If Pogi was considered a sole classics rider that excels at stage races being 2nd in the Tour would be clearly an argument towards his Velo d'Or.
On the other hand, MVDP cannot probably dream of a better season because he does not have much more race types where he excels.
Though choice. Split the Velo d'Or in two.
Agreed. It was over after the Vuelta. The dogs in the street knew that Pog was going to win Lombardia and that it would not be enough to overtake MVdP.
What are you confident is another matter, What matters the most is the results.
Vingegaard won Tour de France, the most important stage race, beating Pogacar in process by 7 minutes! He was 2nd in the Vuelta (2nd or 3rd most important stage race), but he could've won it, if the team didn't involved (same as Roglic). He won Itzulia and Dauphine, both in dominant fashion.
Roglic won Giro (one of the 3 most important stage races), came 3rd at Vuelta, but could've won it (same as Vingegaard), won Tirreno and Catalunya.
Pogacar won Paris-Nice, beating Vingegaard in the process, and came 2nd in the Tour trailing 7 minutes behind that same Vingegaard.
Now, how can anyone with a straight face put Pogacar even on the 2nd spot in terms of GC racing this year?!
Also Lombardia is just different. At San Remo and Roubaix the level is just higher. Even Pogacar didn't look at his spring level the past few weeks. So it doesn't count as high a monument as his Ronde victory, or the San Remo/Roubaix victory of MVDP.
He specifically said 1-week stage racing. And I can say with a straight face that Pogacar is the better one at 1-week stage races than Vingegaard and Roglic. Vingegaard he already beat in Paris-Nice, and Roglic barely won from Evenepoel in Catalunya, so how is he going to beat Pogacar in spring form?
For me, it's Van Der Poel. Winning WC+Roubaix+MSR is huge. Last time someone did it, it gave him the Velo.
Pogacar's season is probably statistically even better, he's going to top most of the rankings, but somehow I don't feel that winning two monuments will be enough in a year like this. He won plenty more, of course, but I think the biggest wins plays by far significant role in these type of contests.
No.3 is probably Vingegaard, with his superb Tour win, and almost win at Vuelta.
Roglic is next in line.
Then a big gap to 5th, which is probably Evenepoel, then Kuss, Philipsen...
Pogacar's season is probably statistically even better, he's going to top most of the rankings, but somehow I don't feel that winning two monuments will be enough in a year like this. He won plenty more, of course, but I think the biggest wins plays by far significant role in these type of contests.
No.3 is probably Vingegaard, with his superb Tour win, and almost win at Vuelta.
Roglic is next in line.
Then a big gap to 5th, which is probably Evenepoel, then Kuss, Philipsen...
You could make a case for 2, maybe 3 riders but MVDP is the favourite.. The first to go are roglic and remco.
-Roglic very consistent but his wins aren't as big/dominant as the others and he never looked like a dominant rider apart from the sprint in GP Emilia.
-Remco is a great champion but he missed too many of his big season goals, often by quite significant margins. He was outperformed in stage races and classics by multiple other riders on the list.
Then you have vingegard, Van der poel and pogacar. I would give it to MVDP, you could make a decent case for pogacar, and perhaps even jonas
-Van der poel won 3 of his 4 big targets and then went on holidays. When they are all big classics, this is a ridiculous success rate. He was dominant in all his wins, always attacking without fear, always making a show, honoring the sport. The only case against him is that pogacar beat him at flanders. But MVDP took his revenge comfortably at Sanremo and worlds. Throw in Roubaix and it's maybe the classics season of the 21 century.
-Pogacar's run of Paris-Nice + Flanders + Amstel + Fleche is one of the most ridiculous demonstrations of racing prowess I have ever seen. He beat Vingegard at his own game, then beat MVDP in a historic edition of the biggest classic. Then he made amstel look like a gran fondo he snuck into and destroyed all the puncheurs in fleche. The problem is that, since then, his only big win was Lombardia, and as @topcat said back in July, they might as well have given that race to him already. He also got pretty badly humiliated by Vingegard in July in the most famous and broadcasted race of all.
-If you really valued stage racing, and particularly le tour, you could give it to Jonas. But I don't think you can give velo d'or to a rider who refused to seize his (what could be his only) chance to ddo a historic tour + vuelta double, instead parading his gregario around as a winner. Everything about that la vuelta was horrifically awkward and the 2023 season should not be associated with it. I also think that in the modern era, where we have riders like pogacar who are at merckx level, just being le tour winner doesn't carry is a much weight as it did 5,10,15,20 years ago. I'm also not sure that tour + daupine + Itzulia + gran camino + vuelta podium is on paper any better than Giro + tirreno + catalunya + Burgos + Emilia + vuelta podium. Although Jonas's wins were far more dominant and his performance far better.
MVDP Velo d'or 2023.
-Roglic very consistent but his wins aren't as big/dominant as the others and he never looked like a dominant rider apart from the sprint in GP Emilia.
-Remco is a great champion but he missed too many of his big season goals, often by quite significant margins. He was outperformed in stage races and classics by multiple other riders on the list.
Then you have vingegard, Van der poel and pogacar. I would give it to MVDP, you could make a decent case for pogacar, and perhaps even jonas
-Van der poel won 3 of his 4 big targets and then went on holidays. When they are all big classics, this is a ridiculous success rate. He was dominant in all his wins, always attacking without fear, always making a show, honoring the sport. The only case against him is that pogacar beat him at flanders. But MVDP took his revenge comfortably at Sanremo and worlds. Throw in Roubaix and it's maybe the classics season of the 21 century.
-Pogacar's run of Paris-Nice + Flanders + Amstel + Fleche is one of the most ridiculous demonstrations of racing prowess I have ever seen. He beat Vingegard at his own game, then beat MVDP in a historic edition of the biggest classic. Then he made amstel look like a gran fondo he snuck into and destroyed all the puncheurs in fleche. The problem is that, since then, his only big win was Lombardia, and as @topcat said back in July, they might as well have given that race to him already. He also got pretty badly humiliated by Vingegard in July in the most famous and broadcasted race of all.
-If you really valued stage racing, and particularly le tour, you could give it to Jonas. But I don't think you can give velo d'or to a rider who refused to seize his (what could be his only) chance to ddo a historic tour + vuelta double, instead parading his gregario around as a winner. Everything about that la vuelta was horrifically awkward and the 2023 season should not be associated with it. I also think that in the modern era, where we have riders like pogacar who are at merckx level, just being le tour winner doesn't carry is a much weight as it did 5,10,15,20 years ago. I'm also not sure that tour + daupine + Itzulia + gran camino + vuelta podium is on paper any better than Giro + tirreno + catalunya + Burgos + Emilia + vuelta podium. Although Jonas's wins were far more dominant and his performance far better.
MVDP Velo d'or 2023.
Although Pogacar for me is undoubtedly the best rider of our era and also this year, MvdP deserves the Velo d'Or 2023. Winning 3/4 of your main targets of the season and be a protagonist in all of them is outrageous. But also the way he superbly rode in all of them, a tactical masterpiece in MSR, the attacking way of riding from 80k from the finish in PR, the brute force and explosiveness after 250k in Glasgow.
Mathieu van der poel or vingegaard.
Mathieu van der poel because he won milan san remo, paris roubaix and the worlds championships. He accomplished what he wanted this year.
Vingegaard because he won almost everything he raced. Gran camino, basque country, dauphine, the most important race of the year tour de france, and he gave the vuelta to kuss. If he had done the double tour/vuelta, there would be no discussion for the velon d'or, but yet he finished second and won two stages.
Mathieu van der poel because he won milan san remo, paris roubaix and the worlds championships. He accomplished what he wanted this year.
Vingegaard because he won almost everything he raced. Gran camino, basque country, dauphine, the most important race of the year tour de france, and he gave the vuelta to kuss. If he had done the double tour/vuelta, there would be no discussion for the velon d'or, but yet he finished second and won two stages.
for me it matters the style people win as well. Winning MSR solo happens mostly with a late attack or something. Not often when somebody outright drops the best in the world on the Poggio and holds on.
Same with the World championship were VDP not just won but destroyed an absolute killer field of chasers.
Pogi did more or less the same in RVV but he could never rest easy with VDP keeping the gap small. And in Lombardia its imo 'easier' to win solo regardless also because its very late in the season. Idk, if Pogi won the Tour I'd give it to Pogi, if Vinge won the Vuelta as well id say Vinge, but now I think it should be VDP.
Same with the World championship were VDP not just won but destroyed an absolute killer field of chasers.
Pogi did more or less the same in RVV but he could never rest easy with VDP keeping the gap small. And in Lombardia its imo 'easier' to win solo regardless also because its very late in the season. Idk, if Pogi won the Tour I'd give it to Pogi, if Vinge won the Vuelta as well id say Vinge, but now I think it should be VDP.
MVDP. If a classics guy can't win this award with 2 monuments AND the WCRR, what do they have to do?
And how he won MSR & WCRR was just so brilliant.
Pog was awesome too, but he got beat bad by his big rival in the biggest race.
And how he won MSR & WCRR was just so brilliant.
Pog was awesome too, but he got beat bad by his big rival in the biggest race.
VDP needed to do more than just win 1 day races.
2 monuments, 2 other classics, GT stages, second overall, and overall week long WT wins > VDP 2 monuments and a worlds
Giving it to VDP is just looking for an excuse to not give Pog another Velo D'Or. Pog was unquestionably the best of the season.
VDP was completely absent at the TDF
Elos Anjos
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The first part is a good point.
The second was a bit lame.
Loosing has nothing to do with deserving Velo d'Or.
Again, Pogacar is so good that he gets his own standards.
Whoever the French like better will win. Everyone here has their own criteria. I don't know how many Frenchmen get a vote or what their criteria is. Using my criteria it definitely wouldn't be MVDP.
Just because Van der Poel is not as versatile as Pogacar doesn't mean the bar should be set lower for him to win the award.
Van der Poel is a classics guy and he won 2 monuments and Pogacar is a stage racer and he won 2 monuments too, one of them was even beating Van der Poel head to head on "his" terrain. But getting 2nd in Tour de France should somehow count against Pogacar when Van der Poel did nothing during Tour de France? 5 years ago I would have thought that winning Flanders and getting a TdF podium in one year is something completely unachievable in modern cycling. Winning 2 monuments and WCRR in one year always seemed much more within reach, even someone like Kristoff wasn't very far away of doing that in 2015.
Nonetheless, what should count is how much you win, not how much you lose. They both have 2 monuments this year. The only thing of value Van der Poel can claim above that is WCRR. Pogacar can claim a TdF podium overall, 2 TdF stages, 1 major one week race, 2 major non-monument classics and WCRR podium. In terms of wins Pogacar leads 17-6 and in terms of UCI points Pogacar leads 7686 vs 4163. Doesn't seem fair to claim that the thing that should swing the award in Van der Poel's favour is that he can't climb.
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Exactly. MVDP is a one trick pony. A Grand one, but one just the same.
Would have never guessed that Pogacar had 17 wins. I guess that's what happens when you do a De Lie and rack up wins in races like Andalucia and Jean's Interior Paradise.
Sepp Kuss....rode all three GTs, never in a designated leader role, and his 14th and 12th as the winner's best helper. that's a big feat in itself. And BOOM! La Vuelta. His case his unique. He won 3 GTs.
In a normal year Van der Poel would win it. But this isn't a normal year.
What’s crazy is we had 4 riders who all would have won in a normal year based on their season.
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