Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[qwer]

Re:

Nibali seems to be riding at the same level as last year more or less. The main difference is that everyone else in the race is better than him this time around. Shows what a fluke it was in 2014.

finally, a guy with a brain!!! he only won last year because froome and contador fell

 

[whittashau]

Oh my. Nibali riding at the same level as last year? Is that why he got dropped by 20 riders yesterday?

You people need to try to troll without making yourselves look so stupid.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

The trolls have taken over the thread I can see. Even if you guys are correct, that he woudn't have won the tour last year, do you seriously think that the other 20+ guys that dropped him yesterday are actually stronger riders? I am confused

 

[BlurryVII]

Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Second, ANY Nibali would've had big problems to beat Horner in that Vuelta, he was at an insane climbing level. I can't believe to this day people are still underrating that just because he was old. Wow. Numbers are numbers, Horner was a beast.

 

[BlurryVII]

And we don't know if Nibali is riding at the same level as last year, wait for Tuesday.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Re:

And we don't know if Nibali is riding at the same level as last year, wait for Tuesday.

Its pretty clear he isn't at this point. All he's done is lose time at every point he could have.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Second, ANY Nibali would've had big problems to beat Horner in that Vuelta, he was at an insane climbing level. I can't believe to this day people are still underrating that just because he was old. Wow. Numbers are numbers, Horner was a beast.

Yeah, Horner did Angliru faster than Contador even. And that was on the last day of the race.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Second, ANY Nibali would've had big problems to beat Horner in that Vuelta, he was at an insane climbing level. I can't believe to this day people are still underrating that just because he was old. Wow. Numbers are numbers, Horner was a beast.

Yeah, Horner did Angliru faster than Contador even. And that was on the last day of the race.

Yeah, 6 seconds faster in total. So he was basically on par with AC 08' .

 

[qwer]

Re: Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Second, ANY Nibali would've had big problems to beat Horner in that Vuelta, he was at an insane climbing level. I can't believe to this day people are still underrating that just because he was old. Wow. Numbers are numbers, Horner was a beast.

Yeah, Horner did Angliru faster than Contador even. And that was on the last day of the race.

contador did hazzallanas 13 seconds slower than horner in february (with more 3 kilos than tour's weight)

 

[del1962]

I think that Nibali has been unlucky so far in this race, first missing being on the front group in the crosswinds, secondly a headwind on cobbles stage and then the crash which might have had an effect on the Mur Bretagne,

I think he looked incredibly strong in the crosswind stage when he dropped the group on his own, but by that time he could never have made it across on his own. Also Astana TTT team was not as strong as Sky, BMC and Movistar

By this time on tuesday we will know more about his strength in the mountains though.

 

[SeriousSam]

I thought Nibali looked strong but then he was dropped by a huge group at the Mur de Bretagne. How he's going to fare in the mountains really depends on why that happened.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Yes he was.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Yes he was.

No he wasn't, his average output on the Giro was ridiculously low, something like 5.6 w/kg . Much higher in the Vuelta, now of course there are variables such as the weather, the length of the climbs and so on but in no way was Nibali better at the Giro.

I'm not saying he was necessarily better at the Vuelta but at least, on par with his Giro level. You can even take Nibali from the Tour 14', he would have a hard time beating Horner on those steep climbs (Hazallanas, Pena Carbarga, Angliru)

 

[whittashau]

Re: Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Second, ANY Nibali would've had big problems to beat Horner in that Vuelta, he was at an insane climbing level. I can't believe to this day people are still underrating that just because he was old. Wow. Numbers are numbers, Horner was a beast.

Numbers are numbers, and Nibali said he was producing 20 less watts than he did at the Giro:

http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/nibali_has_lost_20_watts_since_the_giro/

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Second, ANY Nibali would've had big problems to beat Horner in that Vuelta, he was at an insane climbing level. I can't believe to this day people are still underrating that just because he was old. Wow. Numbers are numbers, Horner was a beast.

Numbers are numbers, and Nibali said he was producing 20 less watts than he did at the Giro:

http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/nibali_has_lost_20_watts_since_the_giro/

I was wrong on the average power output, it's not 5.6 but 5.82, if only rely on numbers then...

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/379326087110475776

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Nibali seems to be riding at the same level as last year more or less. The main difference is that everyone else in the race is better than him this time around. Shows what a fluke it was in 2014.

I think with his being the first Italian Tour winner, the drama from Astana's potential exclusion from the Tour along with the requisite distractions that goes with being the reigning Tour champion, has made his preparation for the Tour less than ideal, resulting in him arriving at the Tour in less than the stellar form of 2014. He has stated as much prior to the Tour. 2014 was no fluke.

 

[movingtarget]

One more bad result and Nibali is done. If he can keep up in the mountains he will have to take risks on the descents when it is possible to make time but first we have to see if he can keep up. I think Froome and Quintana look the best so far but the Pyrenees will tell more. We will know if if TJVG is a real contender for the podium and if Nibali and Contador can climb with Froome and Quintana. Nibali needs Froome to have some bad luck or to have a bad day or both. What a difference a year makes.

 

[whittashau]

Re: Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Second, ANY Nibali would've had big problems to beat Horner in that Vuelta, he was at an insane climbing level. I can't believe to this day people are still underrating that just because he was old. Wow. Numbers are numbers, Horner was a beast.

Numbers are numbers, and Nibali said he was producing 20 less watts than he did at the Giro:

http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/nibali_has_lost_20_watts_since_the_giro/

I was wrong on the average power output, it's not 5.6 but 5.82, if only rely on numbers then...

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/379326087110475776

Nibali said he was producing less watts, Slongo said he was heavier, Horner said he was carrying a few more kgs than he was at the following Tour, but hey, you know better, right?

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Nibali seems to be riding at the same level as last year more or less. The main difference is that everyone else in the race is better than him this time around. Shows what a fluke it was in 2014.

I think with his being the first Italian Tour winner, the drama from Astana's potential exclusion from the Tour along with the requisite distractions that goes with being the reigning Tour champion, has made his preparation for the Tour less than ideal, resulting in him arriving at the Tour in less than the stellar form of 2014. He has stated as much prior to the Tour. 2014 was no fluke.

I think so too. Let's assume that 2014 wasn't just one data point in an upwards trends and Nibali will be even stronger in the coming years. Let's assume it's his maximum performance. If so, it's always more likely that we get his average form, not his maximum form, the year after. The extraordinary is more often followed by the ordinary than once again by the extraordinary.

That pattern applies to other GC riders too. Lance is a bit of an exception, but even his form varied from year to year, it just happened to always have been enough to win. It's not likely a rider can reach his maximum form twice in a row.

 

[cineteq]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Lo Squalo is still in contention. Descending skills and tactics are still there. Plus there is Quintana, Valverde, Van Garderen and Uran who can be allies, even without wanting to be. 3 exciting days are coming up!

 

[Walkman]

Re:

I thought Nibali looked strong but then he was dropped by a huge group at the Mur de Bretagne. How he's going to fare in the mountains really depends on why that happened.

I actually think the crash could have something to do with that. Didn't he beat Quintana on Huy? I think the rest day will do him a lot of good, which would be great for the race.

 

[ray j willings]

Nibs/ Attack and keep attacking ,,,otherwise you are doooooooooomed to defeat.

 

[Rollthedice]

Except for Mur de Bretagne he was good, better than all the other 3 in the ITT, came with Quintana at Huy, better than Contador, beast mode on the cobbles, dragging his weak team in the TTT yesterday. If tuesday he'll keep up with the rest since Froome seems to be in alien mode, there are chances he can bounce back in the following stages.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Comparing him with horner is unfair, how many guys are still in the same shape they had in the giro as in the vuelta?

No, first Nibali was not worse in the Vuelta than he was at the Giro.

Second, ANY Nibali would've had big problems to beat Horner in that Vuelta, he was at an insane climbing level. I can't believe to this day people are still underrating that just because he was old. Wow. Numbers are numbers, Horner was a beast.

Numbers are numbers, and Nibali said he was producing 20 less watts than he did at the Giro:

http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/nibali_has_lost_20_watts_since_the_giro/

I was wrong on the average power output, it's not 5.6 but 5.82, if only rely on numbers then...

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/379326087110475776

Nibali said he was producing less watts, Slongo said he was heavier, Horner said he was carrying a few more kgs than he was at the following Tour, but hey, you know better, right?

The evidence is there, Nibali from the Giro wouldn't have been able to beat Horner at the Vuelta, that' s it. His average output was similar to Froome's and Nibali's Tour 14'.

Are you trying to say Horner from the Tour 2014 was stronger than at the Vuelta 13'? Like seriously, are you brainless?

 

[Metabolol]

Nibali still has a chance if he lost time on the Mur de bretagne due to the crash and he is now recovered. If he drops more than 15-20 sec on Froome tomorrow then it's over.