Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Matt92]

Re:

I'm mostly ok with what Nibali did but I want you guys who are on the side of "it's a race, attack whenever you can, etc..." to honestly think about it and seriously ask yourselves if you would respond exactly the same way if say, Froome or Valverde had done the same thing? I'm honestly curious.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but yes, I would say the exact same things. Actually, I like Nibali, but I'm not a tifoso of his. I defended Contador when Chaingate happened, I defended Aru when he attacked Contador after the puncture, I defended Contador when he attacked Landa after the fall, I defended Sky when they attacked Valverde in the 2012 Vuelta, and so on (not on this forum, I can give you the links to where I wrote that, if you speak Italian ).

 

[Walkman]

Re:

I'm mostly ok with what Nibali did but I want you guys who are on the side of "it's a race, attack whenever you can, etc..." to honestly think about it and seriously ask yourselves if you would respond exactly the same way if say, Froome or Valverde had done the same thing? I'm honestly curious.

For me, yes. It's a race and people should be allowed to race. However I still think it's a d*ck move and I fully understand that people are pissed about it. Especially as it seemed as Nibali did look straight at Froome and saw he had some troubles with his bike and attacked.

But the big thing for me here (and with Contador in 2010) is that both keep saying:

"Ohh, I didn't see anything, mechanical you say?"

Which is compete BS. If you are playing all the angles, at least have the decency to admit it. Don't try and insult the fans with utter BS about you know knowing and stuff like that.

 

[IndianCyclist]

The attack was from too far off to cause problems for anybody with a mechanical. A sneaky one too be sure but with the others chasing him down everytime he attacked, it was a good opportunity. The others hesitated, and he got a gap.
Froome probably gave back as retribution bcos of the previous episode where Nibali went ballistic

 

[Matt92]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Well, yes, I agree about the "I didn't know" part, in my opinion lying about that is the only wrong thing Nibali did.

 

[greenedge]

Although he may or may not have taken advantage of a mechanical I honestly couldn't care less. He rode with panache and strength and he was never going to topple Froome with that time gap. If it was Quintana who'd attacked I might have been more interested in this polemic

Also I'm probably wrong, but I could have sworn I saw Valverde starting to accelerate and I just presumed Nibali was following his attack and blew past him. In Nibali's favour is the fact that Froome always looks down at his stem, so intent focus on that would not have seemed extraordinary.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

It's nice to see Dawg shown to have normal human irrational emotions.
I thought he was allergic to them.
Well done Vincenzo to have brought them out of the alien.
May be the anger hormones will bring something positive.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

But he didn't really take advantage of the situation as Froome doesn't care about Nibali. Same as if Pauwels had attacked at that time, it doesn't matter for Froome.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Cheap move.

No, Froome doesn't care about Nibali, but Contador, Quintana, Valverde, Gesink etc do, and everyone naturally increased their pace when Nibali attacked. As soon as he attacked that whole group was lined out. Froome was forced to ride hard to catch up.

If you believe "anything goes" then man up and say that, don't hide behind a blatant lie that you didn't see anything.

Tbf, Froome's really not affected by it. Valverde and Contador were the real losers, as they had enough class not to follow, but they're the ones who actually lose out

Look back over it. Valverde may not immediately respond but after 5 seconds he starts chasing hard, and almost catches up with Nibali. Then Nibali attacks again, and Valverde this time just can't follow, not because he doesn't want to, but because he can't. He stops chasing completely as soon as Froome reaches him.

 

[kenk09]

Re: Re:

And yet, after everything. Even though Froome was the least affected, he's the only one who whined about it. Everyone else made no big deal of the fact. So well done everyone else.

Alberto lost his spot and said "chapeau Vincenzo, great ride".

Easy to do when your place is 4th.

 

[kenk09]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

And when your history includes making the same cheap move.

 

[SergeDeM]

Re: Re:

And yet, after everything. Even though Froome was the least affected, he's the only one who whined about it. Everyone else made no big deal of the fact. So well done everyone else.

Alberto lost his spot and said "chapeau Vincenzo, great ride".

Easy to do when your place is 4th.

So it should be that much easier to do when you're three places above that guy, and yet...

 

[cineteq]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Actually, Froome did care for a rider who was 7th:

"Unfortunately that was the moment that Nibali decided to make his move. He did see what he was doing, I’m pretty sure he looked around, saw I was in trouble and attacked. In my opinion you don’t do that to the race leader, it’s not sportsmanlike. He had the whole climb to attack and he waited until I had a mechanical."

Apparently Chris missed Vincenzo's attack on the 1st mountain. He missed Astana decimating his teammates left and right, so he'd be isolated.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Actually, Froome did care for a rider who was 7th:

"Unfortunately that was the moment that Nibali decided to make his move. He did see what he was doing, I’m pretty sure he looked around, saw I was in trouble and attacked. In my opinion you don’t do that to the race leader, it’s not sportsmanlike. He had the whole climb to attack and he waited until I had a mechanical."

Apparently Chris missed Vincenzo's attack on the 1st mountain. He missed Astana decimating his teammates left and right, so he'd be isolated.

Yeah, I know he said that. But that's just a matter of respect. Not because Nibali was a threat to Froome. Nibali didn't attack Froome.

 

[cineteq]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Yeah, I know he said that. But that's just a matter of respect. Not because Nibali was a threat to Froome. Nibali didn't attack Froome.

Maybe Froome should have more respect for the reigning TdF champion #JustSayin'

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Yeah, I know he said that. But that's just a matter of respect. Not because Nibali was a threat to Froome. Nibali didn't attack Froome.

Maybe Froome should have more respect for the reigning TdF champion #JustSayin'

How? Has he done anything disrespectful? Honest question as I haven't heard anything.

 

[cineteq]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Yeah, I know he said that. But that's just a matter of respect. Not because Nibali was a threat to Froome. Nibali didn't attack Froome.

Maybe Froome should have more respect for the reigning TdF champion #JustSayin'

How? Has he done anything disrespectful? Honest question as I haven't heard anything.

Don't you understand the race was ON, and Nibali did everything to put himself in that position? It has nothing to do with disrespecting Froome or not.

 

[rhubroma]

I greatly disapproved of Astana's tactic to pull hard leading up to the Mortirolo climb when Contador flatted, because Astana wasn't racing at the front when it happened. The objective was to place the race leader in great difficulty and so divest him of the Maglia Rosa. Fortunately it didn't work out.

What Nibali did, by contrast, in that moment was not a direct threat to Froome, who even had he not had the mechanical would not have been the one to respond to the Sicilian's move anyway. Valverde and Quintana didn't chase him down and so Froome was able to recover.

Certainly Nibali's tactic was opportunistic (if not to say mendacious), but they were already on the climb, the race was thus on and he was planning to attack in that moment anyway.

It's true what Nibali says though that there are no rules against what he did and given that it really didn't cost Froome much other than the nuisance of a forced effort, the guy had no business cursing and insulting Nibali. What he thus tries to project as a mellow, composed and polite fellow is in reality merely the facade of a royal d"£$!/. This, however, is hardly surprising after so many unpleasant tweets by his outspoken woman.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Yeah, I know he said that. But that's just a matter of respect. Not because Nibali was a threat to Froome. Nibali didn't attack Froome.

Maybe Froome should have more respect for the reigning TdF champion #JustSayin'

How? Has he done anything disrespectful? Honest question as I haven't heard anything.

Don't you understand the race was ON, and Nibali did everything to put himself in that position? It has nothing to do with disrespecting Froome or not.

I know. And I think it's fine to attack almost no matter what the circumstances. I think Nibali was totally fine to attack. Froome didn't, though, and that's what I commented on, but the reason Froome thought that Nibali shouldn't attack at that point was a question of respect - not because he thought that Nibali was a threat to his first place obviously.

Again: When was Froome disrespectful towards Nibali?

 

[Walkman]

Re:

I greatly disapproved of Astana's tactic to pull hard leading up to the Mortirolo climb when Contador flatted, because Astana wasn't racing at the front when it happened. The objective was to place the race leader in great difficulty and so divest him of the Maglia Rosa. Fortunately it didn't work out.

What Nibali did, by contrast, in that moment was not a direct threat to Froome, who even had he not had the mechanical would not have been the one to respond to the Sicilian's move anyway. Valverde and Quintana didn't chase him down and so Froome was able to recover.

Certainly Nibali's tactic was opportunistic (if not to say mendacious), but they were already on the climb, the race was thus on and he was planning to attack in that moment anyway.

It's true what Nibali says though that there are no rules against what he did and given that it really didn't cost Froome much other than the nuisance of a forced effort, the guy had no business cursing and insulting Nibali. What he thus tries to project as a mellow, composed and polite fellow is in reality merely the facade of a royal d"£$!/. This, however, is hardly surprising after so many unpleasant tweets by his outspoken woman.

Are you telling me Nibali is any different? If so, any comments on the stage 6 debacle?

 

[Billie]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Yeah, I know he said that. But that's just a matter of respect. Not because Nibali was a threat to Froome. Nibali didn't attack Froome.

Maybe Froome should have more respect for the reigning TdF champion #JustSayin'

How? Has he done anything disrespectful? Honest question as I haven't heard anything.

Don't you understand the race was ON, and Nibali did everything to put himself in that position? It has nothing to do with disrespecting Froome or not.

I know. And I think it's fine to attack almost no matter what the circumstances. I think Nibali was totally fine to attack. Froome didn't, though, and that's what I commented on, but the reason Froome thought that Nibali shouldn't attack at that point was a question of respect - not because he thought that Nibali was a threat to his first place obviously.

Again: When was Froome disrespectful towards Nibali?

Froome called Nibali some words 'he wasn't going to repeat' after the stage

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

I greatly disapproved of Astana's tactic to pull hard leading up to the Mortirolo climb when Contador flatted, because Astana wasn't racing at the front when it happened. The objective was to place the race leader in great difficulty and so divest him of the Maglia Rosa. Fortunately it didn't work out.

What Nibali did, by contrast, in that moment was not a direct threat to Froome, who even had he not had the mechanical would not have been the one to respond to the Sicilian's move anyway. Valverde and Quintana didn't chase him down and so Froome was able to recover.

Certainly Nibali's tactic was opportunistic (if not to say mendacious), but they were already on the climb, the race was thus on and he was planning to attack in that moment anyway.

It's true what Nibali says though that there are no rules against what he did and given that it really didn't cost Froome much other than the nuisance of a forced effort, the guy had no business cursing and insulting Nibali. What he thus tries to project as a mellow, composed and polite fellow is in reality merely the facade of a royal d"£$!/. This, however, is hardly surprising after so many unpleasant tweets by his outspoken woman.

This . . .

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

How? Has he done anything disrespectful? Honest question as I haven't heard anything.

Don't you understand the race was ON, and Nibali did everything to put himself in that position? It has nothing to do with disrespecting Froome or not.

I know. And I think it's fine to attack almost no matter what the circumstances. I think Nibali was totally fine to attack. Froome didn't, though, and that's what I commented on, but the reason Froome thought that Nibali shouldn't attack at that point was a question of respect - not because he thought that Nibali was a threat to his first place obviously.

Again: When was Froome disrespectful towards Nibali?

Froome called Nibali some words 'he wasn't going to repeat' after the stage

OK thanks, didn't know that.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I greatly disapproved of Astana's tactic to pull hard leading up to the Mortirolo climb when Contador flatted, because Astana wasn't racing at the front when it happened. The objective was to place the race leader in great difficulty and so divest him of the Maglia Rosa. Fortunately it didn't work out.

What Nibali did, by contrast, in that moment was not a direct threat to Froome, who even had he not had the mechanical would not have been the one to respond to the Sicilian's move anyway. Valverde and Quintana didn't chase him down and so Froome was able to recover.

Certainly Nibali's tactic was opportunistic (if not to say mendacious), but they were already on the climb, the race was thus on and he was planning to attack in that moment anyway.

It's true what Nibali says though that there are no rules against what he did and given that it really didn't cost Froome much other than the nuisance of a forced effort, the guy had no business cursing and insulting Nibali. What he thus tries to project as a mellow, composed and polite fellow is in reality merely the facade of a royal d"£$!/. This, however, is hardly surprising after so many unpleasant tweets by his outspoken woman.

Are you telling me Nibali is any different? If so, any comments on the stage 6 debacle?

I don't know. I don't know what Nibali said or how he said it. All I read was that he was angry at Froome, because he thought he made him crash. If this included verbal abuse, beyond a comprehensible anger (even if ultimately misguided - for which Nibali subsequently apologized), then no it wouldn't be any different and so I'd have to be just as critical.

The point is that there is definitely antipathy between the two, but this isn't justification for loosing one's composure and taking access to verbal abuse.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Yeah, I know he said that. But that's just a matter of respect. Not because Nibali was a threat to Froome. Nibali didn't attack Froome.

Maybe Froome should have more respect for the reigning TdF champion #JustSayin'

How? Has he done anything disrespectful? Honest question as I haven't heard anything.

Don't you understand the race was ON, and Nibali did everything to put himself in that position? It has nothing to do with disrespecting Froome or not.

Again: When was Froome disrespectful towards Nibali?

I honestly can't remember the comment, but do recall reading on the eve of the Tour that Froome had said something about Nibali that didn't go down well with the Sicilian.

Whatever the case this was an instance in which, right or wrong, Nibali felt Froome had disrespected him.

 

[cantpedal]

Karma is a B****