Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

The guy's the best rider around right now, in my opinion. Relentlessly attacking, incredibly versatile, and a brilliant descender to boot. I think he'll win LBL at some point, but no one since Berzin has won that in April and then been able to hold that form all the way into July, and that was a...different time. He's got to be an overwhelming favourite for Rio though.

When on his game yes I agree, however he's spent the last 2 seasons in really poor form for the first half of the year getting dropped on most climbs. Granted he did win le tour in 2014, but last year he got blown away before foolishly getting DQ'd at la Vuelta. I hope to see something better from him this season in the run up to the Giro.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

The guy's the best rider around right now, in my opinion. Relentlessly attacking, incredibly versatile, and a brilliant descender to boot. I think he'll win LBL at some point, but no one since Berzin has won that in April and then been able to hold that form all the way into July, and that was a...different time. He's got to be an overwhelming favourite for Rio though.

I don't think thats very accurate with the last 2 years in mind... yes, he has shown how big of a talent he is too also be one of the best on the cobbles in 2014 and win Lombardia last year (along with the incredible climbing in 2014), but he knows he has something to prove in order to be labelled the best all-rounder in the peloton right now since, as we all know, he more or less has been absent in all other races, attacking sporadically at times. He definitely has the potential to be classified as that and Im quite sure he will have one of his best seasons this time around, but a guy like Valverde shined much brighter in various races, no matter how and when raced.

Definitely one of the favourites for L-B-L tho, but I reckon its quite tricky to time the form in order to be 100% for both that and the Giro unless you are an absolute superman and is having one of those 2014-Contador seasons. Which Nibali honestly might be capable of (well, maybe not THAT good). He can't be too spend at 31 years after the two last seasons.

 

[HelloDolly]

Definitely one of the favourites for L-B-L tho, but I reckon its quite tricky to time the form in order to be 100% for both that and the Giro unless you are an absolute superman and is having one of those 2014-Contador seasons. Which Nibali honestly might be capable of (well, maybe not THAT good). He can't be too spend at 31 years after the two last seasons.

You mean like Valverde does /is

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Definitely one of the favourites for L-B-L tho, but I reckon its quite tricky to time the form in order to be 100% for both that and the Giro unless you are an absolute superman and is having one of those 2014-Contador seasons. Which Nibali honestly might be capable of (well, maybe not THAT good). He can't be too spend at 31 years after the two last seasons.

You mean like Valverde does /is

Well, its not physically possible to be 100% for both events as you have to give up something at some point in the 3rd week of the Giro after having peaked in April, the thing about Valverde is he is just better than almost everybody at 80-90% which allows him to compete at the highest level in so many races. That can really backfire this year, also with Flanders in mind. In his case, I think its simply to much.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

The guy's the best rider around right now, in my opinion. Relentlessly attacking, incredibly versatile, and a brilliant descender to boot. I think he'll win LBL at some point, but no one since Berzin has won that in April and then been able to hold that form all the way into July, and that was a...different time. He's got to be an overwhelming favourite for Rio though.

No he's not. Valverde is. Nibali will never be an overwhelming favorite in a race like this.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

The guy's the best rider around right now, in my opinion. Relentlessly attacking, incredibly versatile, and a brilliant descender to boot. I think he'll win LBL at some point, but no one since Berzin has won that in April and then been able to hold that form all the way into July, and that was a...different time. He's got to be an overwhelming favourite for Rio though.

No he's not. Valverde is. Nibali will never be an overwhelming favorite in a race like this.

Neither of them is overwhelming favorite but if you bet know on Valverde chances are you'll get more money if he wins than for Nibali. The parcours is much more Lombardia than LBL with longer climbs, technical and tricky descents. It is for the best climbers and descenders in the world, for guys who can handle 250Ks and who can power on the flat in the final stages of a grueling race. It is unpredictable and hard to control with small teams. On the last climb to Vista Chinesa I don't expect more than 20 guys. So, I wouldn't say overwhelming favorite either for Nibs or for Bala.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

The guy's the best rider around right now, in my opinion. Relentlessly attacking, incredibly versatile, and a brilliant descender to boot. I think he'll win LBL at some point, but no one since Berzin has won that in April and then been able to hold that form all the way into July, and that was a...different time. He's got to be an overwhelming favourite for Rio though.

No he's not. Valverde is. Nibali will never be an overwhelming favorite in a race like this.

Well, Nibali will have one of the strongest teams in the race behind him, whereas Valverde will not. Valverde's not even the best Spaniard for this race; Rodriguez has won Lombardia twice, to Valverde's zero, and even Contador's a better climber (although I don't think he has the one-day experience to win).I rate Dani Moreno's chances higher, if the Spanish team somehow manage to cooperate and pull a Beijing. 'A race like this' is precisely where Valverde's stubborn conservatism, tactical ineptitude, and inability to work with people outside his Movistar crew will show up - just like it did in Florence and Ponferrada. Nibali is also just better for such a hard course and more willing to make crucial attacks. If a group of 10 or 20 come in together at the end, maybe Valverde could win, but I'm fairly sure that, with small teams unable to control the race anyway, a solo will take it.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Neither of them is overwhelming favorite but if you bet know on Valverde chances are you'll get more money if he wins than for Nibali. The parcours is much more Lombardia than LBL with longer climbs, technical and tricky descents. It is for the best climbers and descenders in the world, for guys who can handle 250Ks and who can power on the flat in the final stages of a grueling race. It is unpredictable and hard to control with small teams. On the last climb to Vista Chinesa I don't expect more than 20 guys. So, I wouldn't say overwhelming favorite either for Nibs or for Bala.

Well, Nibali will have one of the strongest teams in the race behind him, whereas Valverde will not. Valverde's not even the best Spaniard for this race; Rodriguez has won Lombardia twice, to Valverde's zero, and even Contador's a better climber (although I don't think he has the one-day experience to win).I rate Dani Moreno's chances higher, if the Spanish team somehow manage to cooperate and pull a Beijing. 'A race like this' is precisely where Valverde's stubborn conservatism, tactical ineptitude, and inability to work with people outside his Movistar crew will show up - just like it did in Florence and Ponferrada. Nibali is also just better for such a hard course and more willing to make crucial attacks. If a group of 10 or 20 come in together at the end, maybe Valverde could win, but I'm fairly sure that, with small teams unable to control the race anyway, a solo will take it.

Valverde is the bookmaker's quite overwhelming favorite.

Climbing and descending wise I'd say that Valverde and Nibali are pretty close, though I'll admit that Nibali is a slightly better climber than Valverde.

However, Valverde's "stubborn conservatism, tactical ineptitude, and inability to work with people outside his Movistar crew" has won him more races than Nibali could ever dream of.

I think it's fair to compare the Rio Olympics with Il Lombardia. I would pick Valverde over Nibali for Lombardia anytime.

 

[Jspear]

I would have it as a coin toss between the two of them. Strong arguments can be made for both of them. Personally I'll be rooting for AC, but if he can't manage I'd love to see Nibbes take it.

@Hugo - would you really consider Valverde as good of a descender as Nibbes?

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

I would have it as a coin toss between the two of them. Strong arguments can be made for both of them. Personally I'll be rooting for AC, but if he can't manage I'd love to see Nibbes take it.

@Hugo - would you really consider Valverde as good of a descender as Nibbes?

Yes I would. Valverde is an incredible descender.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

I would have it as a coin toss between the two of them. Strong arguments can be made for both of them. Personally I'll be rooting for AC, but if he can't manage I'd love to see Nibbes take it.

@Hugo - would you really consider Valverde as good of a descender as Nibbes?

Yes I would. Valverde is an incredible descender.

Tbf Valverde's descending is criminally underrated on this forum

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Definitely one of the favourites for L-B-L tho, but I reckon its quite tricky to time the form in order to be 100% for both that and the Giro unless you are an absolute superman and is having one of those 2014-Contador seasons. Which Nibali honestly might be capable of (well, maybe not THAT good). He can't be too spend at 31 years after the two last seasons.

You mean like Valverde does /is

Well Valverde has never done the Ardennes and the Giro with hopes of excelling at both until this year. It remains to be seen how that works out for him.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

I would pick Valverde over Nibali for Lombardia anytime

Really? Even when Nibali convincingly distanced him last year? Fair enough then.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

I would pick Valverde over Nibali for Lombardia anytime

Really? Even when Nibali convincingly distanced him last year ? Fair enough then.

Valverde has finished 2, 2, 4 the last three times he's done Il Lombardia (2013, 2014 and 2015, and then we have to go back to 2005 to find his last participation). Nibali has been 26, DNF and 1 the last three times.

 

[pink_jersey]

Also, it was pretty clear that Valverde was tired by the end of the season. He raced at a very high level all year.

 

[Arredondo]

It's all about reaching your best shape for Rio.

I think Nibali and Purito, for example, will have less difficulty to do that comparing Valverde. I just see some troubles for him with the combi Flanders + classics + Giro + Tour all in good shape.

But if guys like Nibali, Valverde, Purito, Martin and so on all arrive in top shape at Rio, they all have a chance. I don't think there's an overwhelming favourite for that race.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

The guy's the best rider around right now, in my opinion. Relentlessly attacking, incredibly versatile, and a brilliant descender to boot. I think he'll win LBL at some point, but no one since Berzin has won that in April and then been able to hold that form all the way into July, and that was a...different time. He's got to be an overwhelming favourite for Rio though.

No he's not. Valverde is. Nibali will never be an overwhelming favorite in a race like this.

Well, Nibali will have one of the strongest teams in the race behind him, whereas Valverde will not. Valverde's not even the best Spaniard for this race; Rodriguez has won Lombardia twice, to Valverde's zero, and even Contador's a better climber (although I don't think he has the one-day experience to win).I rate Dani Moreno's chances higher, if the Spanish team somehow manage to cooperate and pull a Beijing. 'A race like this' is precisely where Valverde's stubborn conservatism, tactical ineptitude, and inability to work with people outside his Movistar crew will show up - just like it did in Florence and Ponferrada. Nibali is also just better for such a hard course and more willing to make crucial attacks. If a group of 10 or 20 come in together at the end, maybe Valverde could win, but I'm fairly sure that, with small teams unable to control the race anyway, a solo will take it.

Would you please explain this part about teams?! Spain is heavy favorite for this race, but somehow Nibali will have stronger team than Valverde!

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

It's all about reaching your best shape for Rio.

I think Nibali and Purito, for example, will have less difficulty to do that comparing Valverde. I just see some troubles for him with the combi Flanders + classics + Giro + Tour all in good shape.

But if guys like Nibali, Valverde, Purito, Martin and so on all arrive in top shape at Rio, they all have a chance. I don't think there's an overwhelming favourite for that race.

Nibali will race same races as Valverde, bar Flanders...

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

The guy's the best rider around right now, in my opinion. Relentlessly attacking, incredibly versatile, and a brilliant descender to boot. I think he'll win LBL at some point, but no one since Berzin has won that in April and then been able to hold that form all the way into July, and that was a...different time. He's got to be an overwhelming favourite for Rio though.

No he's not. Valverde is. Nibali will never be an overwhelming favorite in a race like this.

Well, Nibali will have one of the strongest teams in the race behind him, whereas Valverde will not. Valverde's not even the best Spaniard for this race; Rodriguez has won Lombardia twice, to Valverde's zero, and even Contador's a better climber (although I don't think he has the one-day experience to win).I rate Dani Moreno's chances higher, if the Spanish team somehow manage to cooperate and pull a Beijing. 'A race like this' is precisely where Valverde's stubborn conservatism, tactical ineptitude, and inability to work with people outside his Movistar crew will show up - just like it did in Florence and Ponferrada. Nibali is also just better for such a hard course and more willing to make crucial attacks. If a group of 10 or 20 come in together at the end, maybe Valverde could win, but I'm fairly sure that, with small teams unable to control the race anyway, a solo will take it.

Would you please explain this part about teams?! Spain is heavy favorite for this race, but somehow Nibali will have stronger team than Valverde!

I think he meant it as Nibs will have a strong team behind him, while Valverde won't, because his teammates will try to win for themselves, since they all have a shot.

 

[yaco]

Olympic is more than a two horse race. Colombians are the ones I fear in the RR - I am unsure that Froome will be 100% in he RR, seeing the TT follows the RR.

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

It's all about reaching your best shape for Rio.

I think Nibali and Purito, for example, will have less difficulty to do that comparing Valverde. I just see some troubles for him with the combi Flanders + classics + Giro + Tour all in good shape.

But if guys like Nibali, Valverde, Purito, Martin and so on all arrive in top shape at Rio, they all have a chance. I don't think there's an overwhelming favourite for that race.

Nibali will race same races as Valverde, bar Flanders...

True, but is it already certain Nibbles will do the Tour? That makes a big difference.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

It's all about reaching your best shape for Rio.

I think Nibali and Purito, for example, will have less difficulty to do that comparing Valverde. I just see some troubles for him with the combi Flanders + classics + Giro + Tour all in good shape.

But if guys like Nibali, Valverde, Purito, Martin and so on all arrive in top shape at Rio, they all have a chance. I don't think there's an overwhelming favourite for that race.

Nibali will race same races as Valverde, bar Flanders...

True, but is it already certain Nibbles will do the Tour? That makes a big difference.

No it's not certain, but plenty think he will and even he has said it's a possibility.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

The guy's the best rider around right now, in my opinion. Relentlessly attacking, incredibly versatile, and a brilliant descender to boot. I think he'll win LBL at some point, but no one since Berzin has won that in April and then been able to hold that form all the way into July, and that was a...different time. He's got to be an overwhelming favourite for Rio though.

No he's not. Valverde is. Nibali will never be an overwhelming favorite in a race like this.

Well, Nibali will have one of the strongest teams in the race behind him, whereas Valverde will not. Valverde's not even the best Spaniard for this race; Rodriguez has won Lombardia twice, to Valverde's zero, and even Contador's a better climber (although I don't think he has the one-day experience to win).I rate Dani Moreno's chances higher, if the Spanish team somehow manage to cooperate and pull a Beijing. 'A race like this' is precisely where Valverde's stubborn conservatism, tactical ineptitude, and inability to work with people outside his Movistar crew will show up - just like it did in Florence and Ponferrada. Nibali is also just better for such a hard course and more willing to make crucial attacks. If a group of 10 or 20 come in together at the end, maybe Valverde could win, but I'm fairly sure that, with small teams unable to control the race anyway, a solo will take it.

Would you please explain this part about teams?! Spain is heavy favorite for this race, but somehow Nibali will have stronger team than Valverde!

It's quite simple: Spain have 3 legitimate contenders, who have a track record of rivalry and utter dysfunction (like Florence 2013). As was discussed quite extensively in the Contador thread, Minguez will also ruin the balance completely by nominating 2 other Movistar cronies for the other spots. Piti, Purito, and AC will probably get marked out of existence anyway; as I said above, if Spain actually worked, they might be able to repeat their 2008 performance with someone like Moreno, but they don't work, so that's that. A team with Aru, Pozzovivo, Rosa, and someone else (or whatever) doesn't have the sheer win count of Spain, but that's not how cycling works. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

(I slightly regret using the term 'overwhelming favourite', but I still hold that it's kind of true. The thing about the Olympics - with small teams and an unpredictable race, this year at altitude - is that there's no real favourites: who saw Sami or Vino winning? Nibali is the overwhelming favourite out of the favourites (I think Rodriguez's too old, Valverde's...not good enough) but the chances of a non-favourite winning are high, and we can't really predict that.

 

[johnymax]

If there is one rider that is the king of one day hilly races, that's Valverde for sure. Then there's Purito, Then you can put Nibali, with Martin and maybe Moreno or Uran close. I like both Bala and Lo squalo (Nibali little better) but to say that Nibali is an overwhelming favourite "out of favourites" over Valverde is wrong imo. Valverde is always the rider to beat in similar races. Of course both can win the olympic gold.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re:

If there is one rider that is the king of one day hilly races, that's Valverde for sure. Then there's Purito, Then you can put Nibali, with Martin and maybe Moreno or Uran close. I like both Bala and Lo squalo (Nibali little better) but to say that Nibali is an overwhelming favourite "out of favourites" over Valverde is wrong imo. Valverde is always the rider to beat in similar races. Of course both can win the olympic gold.

Very agree