Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Gigs_98]

Re:

First of all, I would like to say that there has been some incredible support, unexpected of course but greatly appreciated. (Refer to Second Post)
As to reply Mr. Aerobars, who is a fellow lurker like me, I'm incredibly pleased that I could illicit such a response. I'd say its my honour sir. Sorry for the late response as it was my country's Republic Day.

1. Your first point was about me cherry picking races. I did nothing of that sort sir. I simply compiled all the races where they met head to head after Chris Froome turned into a leader. Comparing anything before that is counterproductive owing to the fact that it would not give us the clear picture. Eg. We can't compare Richie Porte against say Vincenzo Nibali because he put it efforts which weren't to win but to help someone else win. Now, with his switch to BMC we can really put it to test as to who's better.

2. I didn't amplify anything, my dear sir, just merged their palmares to get the races where they went head to head as race leaders I.e. where they went to WIN.

3. As for putting the asterisks, please see the compilation closely again. I've put an asterisk on the 2015 Vuelta where VN was thrown out and a clear battle couldn't take place.

4. My aim was never to glorify his 2 Tour wins as you can see from the post. But since you talk about it, isn't he the only multiple Tour de France winner in recent times? Yeah, he is. Must be awesome.

5. Well, I've not even mentioned the 2013 Tour and you, sir, are howling about it, God knows why.

6. You can clearly see that when they've gone head to head, Chris froome leads 7-2. (When both were leaders)

7. I'm curious about the point you make about Nibali giving courtesy to Froome. I'm sure they just rode on at the same pace. In Zeeland, was it Team Sky that attacked? I think it was Tinkoff Saxo, no?

8. Also, attacking the yellow Jersey in the mountains when he's had a mechanical is cheap, really cheap.... Ofc its not cheaper than talking crap about your own teammates. (Lol).
I'm pretty sure most ppl would not agree about Contador attacking Schleck in the mountains when he was in yellow, which clearly was visible at the podium ceremony, and Contador, the amazing rider that he is, apologized to his fans. (Incredible). Something I can't say is true for Vincenzo Nibali.(Lol)

9. 2014 TdF, in majority's opinion was the worst in recent history. Many ppl have written about it. Please refer that only. JC Peraud on the podium. Lol.(Thank you ppl)

10. About one trick pony and Nibali being this amazing rider according to you. As you have seen I like to draw analogies. I would prefer being Novak Djokovic than Gael Monfils, because he wins, and wins and wins. Gael Monfils can be the eternal crowds favourite, dive to get across to balls but he would never go into a tourney as the favourite.

11. I'm really surprised you even brought doping tests up. What team does Nibali ride for? Ohh.. Astana, isn't it? Wasn't it gonna lose its racing license. Might have heard wrong. Sorry sir. Sorry, from the bottom of my heart. I heard many people got a positive from Astana. Damn, must have heard wrong. (Lol)

12. As for missed dope tests, I'm curious how many VN has missed in his career. Instead of applauding a rider for telling the public that he missed a drug test, you're vilifying him. The guy whose team's many riders test positive is being applauded. Must be some world I'm living in.

13. Thrown out for hanging onto a car. I'm again surprised you even brought that up. There's a stark difference between the Nibali case and The Chris Froome case. Nibali is the designated leader of a world tour team. He has media all around him. He's going for the win. Froome, at that time, was a lowly domestique, completely wasted. He was half an hour behind and would eventually have withdrawn. Nibali, on the other hand cracked under pressure. He as well as his team. Its hilarious looking at that video. You should have a look too.

14. As for being obsessed with something….
Its funny but my dad says to be successful that something, be obsessed and work hard towards it and you’ll get it. I think Chris Froome is doing the same. He’s trying to win the toughest bike race in the world multiple times. I really do hope though, that VN wins a few more GTs against the likes of Rigoberto and JC Peraud cus he CAN beat them in my opinion.

PS: I used to not hate VN but his comments about his teammates was the final nail in the coffin. I mean, how can anybody be this arrogant and snotty? Does he even know what happened in the Tour 15? Maybe not. Still living in his own bubble. (Lol)
Another thing which was really hilarious was his brushing aside of Chris Froome as even a favourite to win the Tour 15 saying in a pre-Tour interview stating that Chris Froome’s fitness is not as good as his, Quintana and Contadors. I guess he just forgot that he lost the Criterium du Dauphine 2015 handily to that guy only.
He should really learn some humility.

Have a goodun guys.

1. Why shouldnt we compare Nibali with the pre vuelta 2011 froome? I thought this is a discussion who isnt only the better but also the more successful rider, and because froome and nibali are around the same age, I don't see a reason why we shouldnt compare these results too. Besides that Nibali often peaked completely different, and especially his results 2014 and 2015 don't say a lot because he almost only concentrated on the tdf (although ofc in the tour 2015 froome was indeed way better)

2. Well when a rider has more races in which he can be successful it isnt surprising that he is a bit worse in the races in which he rides against the other person so IMO thats actually a point for nibali.

3. That asterisk still isnt a good explanation why you put that result into your list anyway

4. Thats either a post with a clinical ulterior motive, or you really forgot about Contador

5. I don't know what AeroBars meant with that statement, but I'm 100% sure he didnt complain that you didnt put the tdf 2013 into your list. Just because someone is wrong that doesnt mean you can interpret his post however you want

6. As written in 1. Nibali often peaked differently than froome so not all of these results mean a lot, but still you are right that froome has a clear advantage in the head to heads.

7. I didnt see the split of the bunch in the Zeelande stage, I unfortunately switched on to late, but if I'm right they at least helped to increase the advantage. However I don't think it was unfair, something like that is completely normal in a cross wind stage BUT

8. I also think that Nibali's attack was okay because it wasnt an attack to win the tdf but to win the stage, so 1. it doesnt really matter that the leader had a mechanical and 2. we still don't know for sure if he attacked because froome had a mechanical (although to be honest thats pretty likely ) Moreover I'd say more than 50% of the forum members here say that Contadors attack on the bales 2010 was okay. 7 and 8 are both no gentleman moves but also no reason to complain

9. 2012 is by far more disliked than 2014 and I'm pretty sure the same counts for 2013. Moreover was it Nibali's fault that Peraud got 2nd? If Nibali had won that tour by less than a minute, I would agree with you, that Froome/AC/Quintana would have beaten him. But Nibali won the tour by 7 minutes 37 and his advantage could have been even bigger if he needed any more time. Believe me there was more than enough place for Froome to get 2nd and still be clearly in front of Peraud.

10. Funny that you argue with that because honestly, in 10 years nobody will care against whom Nibali was riding 2014 and in 10 years a win in every gt + a monument will definitely be seen as more successful than 2 tdf's.

11.-12. Please don't write about doping here, or at least don't accuse someone of doping. These discussions belong to another forum section

13. Firstly it was also very unsportsmanlike by froome to do that. Secondly the situation for Nibali was just extremely unlucky. Ofc that sticky bottle was extremely stupid but Nibali crashed and his service car had the idea to pull him forward. Put froome in the same situation and he would do the same.

14. I need an explanation for that statement, but I'm pretty sure it was once again snotty

PS: he was a favorite for the tdf 2015. His preparation in 2014 was extremely bad as well and he still had a great shape during the race.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Nibs tour win was brilliant , He seemed to be in the form of his life. We will never know how things would have turned out if Bertie of Froome had not got injured but It would have been close IMO.
Nibs does not give much away and I think he would have a great chance of defending a lead but if he had to get time on Froome or Bertie I don't think that's possible on the climbs, he would have to make the time on a rolling stage etc.

 

[huge]

I used to not hate VN but his comments about his teammates was the final nail in the coffin. I mean, how can anybody be this arrogant and snotty? Does he even know what happened in the Tour 15? Maybe not. Still living in his own bubble. (Lol)

Someone that says that, says it all.
Why to be bothered and read his post? Just an utter waste of time. A totally biased opinion led by hatred and single sided vision.

Leaving all that non-sense for more interesting "facts".

Speaking to Gazzetta dello Sport Nibali said he feels pleased with his current form and has stated that the Tour de San Luis has given him good signs. Slongo said Nibs is thinner than last year. He does indeed look quite skinny in the pics pubblished.

He will now spend almost two weeks at a training camp in Tenerife and come back to racing in mid Feb at the Tour of Oman.

 

[Singer01]

Re:

I believe the Nibs 2016 form will be better than his 2015, but he won't be as good as in 2014...

Sadly, but I think he already is in the declining part of his career. He can probably feel it and that makes him nervous, much less confident in himself. Which is quite a shock for a guy that's always been super confident in his own means. Hope he'll prove me wrong though.

he only just turned 31, was very strong in later part of tour and lombardia last year. if he messes up the giro against a relatively weak field then i'll reconsider.

 

[Carols]

The signs look much better this season for him IMO. Definitely thinner, worked hard on the last San Luis MTF for Lopez and still came in 8th. He says the indicators he was anticipating were there. Green Mountain will show us more and hopefully he builds to a nice peak for the Giro while showing some results on the way. It is all to play for!

 

[AeroBars]

Re:

First of all, I would like to say that there has been some incredible support, unexpected of course but greatly appreciated. (Refer to Second Post)
As to reply Mr. Aerobars, who is a fellow lurker like me, I'm incredibly pleased that I could illicit such a response. I'd say its my honour sir. Sorry for the late response as it was my country's Republic Day.


7. I'm curious about the point you make about Nibali giving courtesy to Froome. I'm sure they just rode on at the same pace. In Zeeland, was it Team Sky that attacked? I think it was Tinkoff Saxo, no?

13. Thrown out for hanging onto a car. I'm again surprised you even brought that up. There's a stark difference between the Nibali case and The Chris Froome case. Nibali is the designated leader of a world tour team. He has media all around him. He's going for the win. Froome, at that time, was a lowly domestique, completely wasted. He was half an hour behind and would eventually have withdrawn. Nibali, on the other hand cracked under pressure. He as well as his team. Its hilarious looking at that video. You should have a look too.

Have a goodun guys.

SilverGrenade,
First Im going laugh out loud. Hope you enjoyed your holiday.

Since most of what you wrote has already been addressed by forum, I will just answer a few things with a list of my own and I included your comments above because I wanted to make sure I don't forget them:

1. Your are really silly calling Nibali a one trick Pony as his palmares is very well rounded. He rides stage races, GTs and One day races and does well in all of them, and yes you are cherry picking just the races in which they met I understand that, but like I said cherry picking races will not tell you who is better, I am looking at their overall results. Froome is not always competing against the top level which is why I brought in 2013TDF because Nibali did not ride that tour - so one of the top guys weren't at the start line. If you look at their overall performance you will see Nibali is more versatile, rides more races, and has more wins. So, so much for that.

2. As for 2014tdf a few of the riders said it was one of the most difficult tours they had ridden citing the nervousness of the cobbles stage, speed of the peloton, not to mentioned it rained most of the stages before the first rest day and not even Valverde could manage a podium spot during that tour and he was riding for himself but he got one 2015 with Froome as race leader, even though he was riding as domestique for Quintana. And heck as we know not even Froome and Contador could finish that race, they both crashed their bikes.

3. What's cheaper attacking the yellow jersey of an opponent(during what froome had which was a pebble in his shoes/chainring or whatever - and there is no proof Nibali saw or knew what was happening as he was in the front of the peloton getting ready to attack anyway)
OR attacking a teammate or how about pushing on full gas after the yellow jersey was part of a (bad) crash. Zeeland(Dennis) Cancellara - the commissar had to stop the race.

4. Now for a team that is constantly spreading rumors about other riders possibly doping, no one on Sky and particularly Froome should ever miss a test(do you agree?) and while some may have tested positive from Astana doesn't mean the whole team is dirty. So you can speculate as to whether VN ever missed at test, the fact is WE KNOW FROOME MISSED one, more than one. If some British athletes get popped does that mean they are all dirty? Well, just ask Team Sky, they have no problem signing Astana riders.

5. How do I KNOW Nibali/peloton WAITED for Froome after his crashes, Grenade you should know this:

a) Peloton is riding with breakaway about four/five or so mins ahead
b) Froome crashes(needs new bike and medical attention)
c) Peloton still riding but gap to breakaway is increasing (quickly)
d) Froome catches up to peloton after drafting behind is team car

Don't believe it, just go back, watch and listen to the replay of stage 5(on youtube/english version) with Phil Ligget loosing his mind screaming about how the peloton needs to wait for Froome and when he realizes they are waiting is happy about it and mentions the gentlemens(unwritten) code(said the same thing on stage four when Froome crashed).

Then listen to him talk about how the entire team sky with Froome in tow was drafting behind their team car for a very looooooong period of time, you can hear Ligget give commentary on how he thinks there definately should and will be a penalty for Froome at the end of the stage as it was so egregious. However penalty was not needed because Froome crashed again and then got in team car and went home.

So when you say that Nibali was a team leader and froome wasnt well there is something that froome did while being the team leader, but more important THERE IS THE COURTESY that Froome got from Nibali when Nibali was wearing the yellow jersey and Froome was previous winner. He also waited for Contador when he crashed.

You say because Nibali said some things to teammates or about teammates so you dislike him. Well that's great, so what should we think about you? You came on here and said some pretty nasty things. So, to answer your question can anybody be this arrogant and snotty, YES - look in mirror. Also what about Froome, the guy you idolize who rolled over wiggins then backed up then threw him under the bus when he was riding as domestique for him. But more important why do people leave sky if it's supposed to be paradise?
___________________

On another front Nibali's preparation for 2015 was not the same as preparing in 2014. He has said the obligations of winning the TDF meant he had constant distractions and interruptions to his training not to mention new baby. The mental stress from winning seemed to take a toll, I don't think he was prepared for that. He was not as focused as he would have liked to have been in preparing for 2015 plus I think he had an injury that plagued him during the early part of the year. I agree this season he is already looking more fit and more tranquil. I just like watching the guy ride, looking forward to season.

 

[AeroBars]

Also, to address the constant questions about 2014TDF like "what would have happened if Froome and Contador didn't crash" or "if Froome and Contador were there". To me this is a futile exercise. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. Froome and Contador were there, they started right along with the other 180+ riders - but they crashed out and have a DNF on the record for their participation for 2014TDF. So, THEY LOST, that's what happened - and any further speculation is pointless, but go ahead, keep banging your head into walls, must be fun.

 

[dacooley]

Re:

Also, I just want to address the constant questions about 2014TDF like "what would have happened if Froome and Contador didn't crash" or "if Froome and Contador were there". To me this is a futile exercise. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. Froome and Contador were there, they started right along with the other 180+ riders - but they crashed out and have a DNF on the record for their participation for 2014TDF. So, THEY LOST, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED - and any further speculation is pointless.

why does it surprise you so much? that's just a forum board and people are willing to debate even way more speculative matters like bertie in full magic vs indu in his prime or if contador's pais vasco 2014 form was good enough to destroy froome in the 2013 tour.

 

[AeroBars]

Re: Re:

Also, I just want to address the constant questions about 2014TDF like "what would have happened if Froome and Contador didn't crash" or "if Froome and Contador were there". To me this is a futile exercise. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. Froome and Contador were there, they started right along with the other 180+ riders - but they crashed out and have a DNF on the record for their participation for 2014TDF. So, THEY LOST, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED - and any further speculation is pointless.

why does it surprise you so much? that's just a forum board and people are willing to debate even way more speculative matters like bertie in full magic vs indu in his prime or if contador's pais vasco 2014 form was good enough to destroy froome in the 2013 tour.

True...

 

[bassano]

AeroBars: I would like to say that you wrote quite nice post, it was pleasure to read it, many other posts are not so nice and straight to debate

 

[cineteq]

Re:

It's hard for some to admit defeat. It was clearly over by stage 5. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!

Also, to address the constant questions about 2014TDF like "what would have happened if Froome and Contador didn't crash" or "if Froome and Contador were there". To me this is a futile exercise. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. Froome and Contador were there, they started right along with the other 180+ riders - but they crashed out and have a DNF on the record for their participation for 2014TDF. So, THEY LOST, that's what happened - and any further speculation is pointless, but go ahead, keep banging your head into walls, must be fun.

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Re: Re:

It's hard for some to admit defeat. It was clearly over by stage 5. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!

You mean stage 8 right ?

 

[SafeBet]

It's still very early but everything pointing to an interesting season for lo Squalo.

 

[Scarponi]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Probably the most maligned triple GT winner in history ever

 

[Carols]

He's going to be deadly this year . Anyone who wants the Giro better be prepared to face a Nibali in great shape. GT #4 on his palmares?

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

He's going to be deadly this year . Anyone who wants the Giro better be prepared to face a Nibali in great shape. GT #4 on his palmares?

Until Giro I look forward to T-A, MSR and LBL, the shark looks hungry.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

He's going to be deadly this year . Anyone who wants the Giro better be prepared to face a Nibali in great shape. GT #4 on his palmares?

Until Giro I look forward to T-A, MSR and LBL, the shark looks hungry.

I know I can hardly wait!! He says it was a head wind at the finish and he was satisfied. Bring on Green Mountain.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

He's going to be deadly this year . Anyone who wants the Giro better be prepared to face a Nibali in great shape. GT #4 on his palmares?

Until Giro I look forward to T-A, MSR and LBL, the shark looks hungry.

Yes!

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

He's going to be deadly this year . Anyone who wants the Giro better be prepared to face a Nibali in great shape. GT #4 on his palmares?

Until Giro I look forward to T-A, MSR and LBL, the shark looks hungry.

Yes!

OMG could it be the year of Monument #2 and GT #4?

This guy is one of the most underrated riders I can ever recall. Go Shark, devour them

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

He's going to be deadly this year . Anyone who wants the Giro better be prepared to face a Nibali in great shape. GT #4 on his palmares?

Until Giro I look forward to T-A, MSR and LBL, the shark looks hungry.

Yes!

OMG could it be the year of Monument #2 and GT #4?

This guy is one of the most underrated riders I can ever recall. Go Shark, devour them

Well, IF he managed to accomplish both this year, that would shut up plenty of his critics imo. I do think he has a very real shot at winning LBL. I really hope it's in his sights as well.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

I really hope he never goes back to the tour. His early season shape is so much better in Giro years

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

He's going to be deadly this year . Anyone who wants the Giro better be prepared to face a Nibali in great shape. GT #4 on his palmares?

Until Giro I look forward to T-A, MSR and LBL, the shark looks hungry.

Yes!

OMG could it be the year of Monument #2 and GT #4?

This guy is one of the most underrated riders I can ever recall. Go Shark, devour them

Well, IF he managed to accomplish both this year, that would shut up plenty of his critics imo. I do think he has a very real shot at winning LBL. I really hope it's in his sights as well.

People that disparage a winner of All 3 GTS, who is also a Monument winner aren't likely to change their minds. I mean just how much more versatile can you get?

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

He's going to be deadly this year . Anyone who wants the Giro better be prepared to face a Nibali in great shape. GT #4 on his palmares?

Until Giro I look forward to T-A, MSR and LBL, the shark looks hungry.

Yes!

OMG could it be the year of Monument #2 and GT #4?

This guy is one of the most underrated riders I can ever recall. Go Shark, devour them

Well, IF he managed to accomplish both this year, that would shut up plenty of his critics imo. I do think he has a very real shot at winning LBL. I really hope it's in his sights as well.

Sure it is but no1 is Rio. The parcours is perfect for him, Nibs has a real chance to make history there.

 

[Carols]

I forgot the Olympics. Yes the Giro and Rio Gold are his major objectives this season. Next year maybe another Monument . IMO an Olympic Gold outranks a Monument there are 5 of those every year, there in only one Gold medal every 4 years.

 

[Cannibal72]

The guy's the best rider around right now, in my opinion. Relentlessly attacking, incredibly versatile, and a brilliant descender to boot. I think he'll win LBL at some point, but no one since Berzin has won that in April and then been able to hold that form all the way into July, and that was a...different time. He's got to be an overwhelming favourite for Rio though.