Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[AeroBars]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

To make a long story short, I just unintentionally deleted two post so I lost half an hour of my life so I will keep this their version of my reply a bit shorter
@silvergrenade:
I disagree with big parts of your post but what made me write my first reply was your last statement:
"Kindly don't compare Froome with Nibali cus its like comparing Ronda Roussey to Holly Holm. She got knocked out when she claimed nobody can knock her out."
To write something like that is just extremely snotty. I even agree that Froome is a bit better than Nibali, or at least I don't put Nibali above Froome. But you write as if Froome is by far better in absolutely everything not considering that Nibali is the better bike handler, therefore the better descender, he is more aggressive and he is the better classics rider. Just don't write "you must not compare froome with nibali" because that comparison wouldnt even be almost as clearly as you maybe think

That last comment is part of what made me reply as well.

 

[dacooley]

it may sound harsh but nibali imo won too many grand tours for his level of talent in terms of gc racing. objectively lady luck was always his big ally. yes, a rider is often an architect of his own fortune and there is no grand tour wins without luck: luck of not getting into crashes, luck of beatable field, luck of opponents not demostrating their best physical shape. surely, nibs is not blame for that, but such an idea always comes to mind, given whom he was beating.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

This is my first post everybody and I went through this forum and saw some interesting conversations.

About Nibali vs Froome
Everybody has seen that Chris Froome has beaten Nibali on the climbs as well as TTs handily, be it the Tour 2012 (he chased all the attcks from Nibali), or the Tour 2015, Dauphine 2015; And any TT for that matter. Froome smokes TTs.
Some people wrote about Froome not having a full palmares. The fact is that Froome has won GTs handily, the two Tours which is bigger than any Nibali win and Nibali himself knows that he cannot win the Tour. Even his team doesnt want Nibali in the Tour team, reason why he needs to go to the Giro since he has no option. Looking at his performances at Tour san luis in 2016, it shows that his level still sucks in terms of climbing legs when he actually said before the tour that he's going there to win. Either he doesn't know his own condition or he's nowhere near the rider he once was.
Kindly don't compare Froome with Nibali cus its like comparing Ronda Roussey to Holly Holm. She got knocked out when she claimed nobody can knock her out.

You shouldn't bother, and that includes you second post too...

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

I believe the Nibs 2016 form will be better than his 2015, but he won't be as good as in 2014...

He wasn't that good in 2014, apart from the Tour.
I was hoping we could get something closer to 2013. Both his result in San Luis and his racing schedule are very similar to that year.

Next, top 10 in Oman.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

it may sound harsh but nibali imo won too many grand tours for his level of talent in terms of gc racing. objectively lady luck was always his big ally. yes, a rider is often an architect of his own fortune and there is no grand tour wins without luck: luck of not getting into crashes, luck of beatable field, luck of opponents not demostrating their best physical shape. surely, nibs is not blame for that, but such an idea always comes to mind, given whom he was beating.

You're right

The 2010 Vuelta was lucky, but the 2013 Giro was terrific, and beat the same guy that Quintana beat, just by more and in more style. Uran was also better that year. The 2014 Tour I reckon he would've won anyway, even if Contador and Froome hadn't forgotten how to ride a bike, 3 times in Froome's case. I'm not sure he'd have lost 2:34 in the mountains which weren't that hard. And Nibali put out some seriously good numbers on the way. He'd have been dropped a couple of times, but won some others and just held out by under a minute or so.

His time-trialling is always underrated, IMO, unlike his descending which can be overhyped occasionally. He is always good, if maybe not spectacular in his time trials. Going uphill in a TT then only Contadorand Froome can beat him. Honestly, his MTTs in the past have been one of his best assets (see 2013, 2011, 2010). In 2011 it was only a fantastic Contador that beat him, and in 2010 it was a slightly ridiculous Garzelli that beat him, on a slope that may have been slightly too much for him.

His climbing is ususlly pretty good. in a 3 week GT I reckon with everyone at 100% he can beat Froome, Nairo and Contador in a stage or two. He'll get beaten on all the rest, but beat them on one or two. Below, but not that below. Above anyone else.

In terms of GC, I still rate Nibali above Quintana based on two things: time trialling, which Nairo is also underrated on, and agressiveness. Nairo wasn't very aggressive last Tour, and has said that he will be more conservative in races to come. He won't win many GTs this way.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Nibali's decline started with 2013 Vuelta where he was beaten by Horner. Ever since he started to "peak" for a GT he has had problems.A fit Nibali is entertaining even when he loses. But an out of form Nibali gets dropped by Greipel, makes excuses, whines about other riders, complains about teammates and takes a tow from the friendly neighborhood car and never admits to a mistake. I suspect Landa will give him a torrid time.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

How is that discussion still going?

Froome might not have a higher W/kg if he had balls the size of Nibali's
And Id still take Nibali's palmares over Froome's any day of the week.

 

[ray j willings]

Nibs still has it all to prove against the likes of Froome , Bertie etc in a GT. Having said that he has shown at times form that looks equal or at least as impressive. I think that Aru being Astana's tour choice says quite a lot. I hope Nibs makes the tour this year and next year has another focused crack at it. I agree with above I much prefer to have won all the big 3 GT's than 2 tours. Nibs is a class act you can't deny that.

 

[Red Rick]

I hope Nibali isn't so obsessed with beating Froome and Contador. I much rather see him do what he does best than watch him try to out-Froome Froome

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Nibs still has it all to prove against the likes of Froome , Bertie etc in a GT. Having said that he has shown at times form that looks equal or at least as impressive. I think that Aru being Astana's tour choice says quite a lot. I hope Nibs makes the tour this year and next year has another focused crack at it. I agree with above I much prefer to have won all the big 3 GT's than 2 tours. Nibs is a class act you can't deny that.

You can add to Giro Tour Vuelta wins, four podiums, one monument and another two monument podiums. Hard to beat such a record and it will be even harder after Rio.

 

[trevim]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

I hope Nibali puts all his focus on the Olympics Road Race. At this point, every GT win doesn't add anything new to his record but if he can take a couple of large one day races like Liege, Olympics, Worlds or San Remo, his record will be one of the very best out there in terms of diversity.

(Obviously in dream world I want him to come second to Contador )

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

I hope Nibali puts all his focus on the Olympics Road Race. At this point, every GT win doesn't add anything new to his record but if he can take a couple of large one day races like Liege, Olympics, Worlds or San Remo, his record will be one of the very best out there in terms of diversity.

(Obviously in dream world I want him to come second to Contador )

It will come down to how Spain rides this. We know Italy will go full gas early, that's their only chance, but having Valverde on the team gives Spain some different options.

I truly think this is gonna be one of this year best races anyway.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

This is my first post everybody and I went through this forum and saw some interesting conversations.

About Nibali vs Froome
Everybody has seen that Chris Froome has beaten Nibali on the climbs as well as TTs handily, be it the Tour 2012 (he chased all the attcks from Nibali), or the Tour 2015, Dauphine 2015; And any TT for that matter. Froome smokes TTs.
Some people wrote about Froome not having a full palmares. The fact is that Froome has won GTs handily, the two Tours which is bigger than any Nibali win and Nibali himself knows that he cannot win the Tour. Even his team doesnt want Nibali in the Tour team, reason why he needs to go to the Giro since he has no option. Looking at his performances at Tour san luis in 2016, it shows that his level still sucks in terms of climbing legs when he actually said before the tour that he's going there to win. Either he doesn't know his own condition or he's nowhere near the rider he once was.
Kindly don't compare Froome with Nibali cus its like comparing Ronda Roussey to Holly Holm. She got knocked out when she claimed nobody can knock her out.

I agree with most of what you have said here but you must remember that on this forum that most of those posting are Contator or Nibali fans and dont like Froome/SKY so you are bound to get alot of flak for this type of post ...I wouldn't mind if people argued the points you raised whether agreeing or not but unfortunately their are alot of know it all who will ridicule your contribution hence increasing the chances you won't post again...Guess it keeps the little clique of posters safe in their own world

Way to try to poison the new poster's mind with your own baggage. I'm sure he/she is quite capable of making their own determination of the forum's pulse without your undue influence.

I didn;t try to poison anyone's mind with my 'baggage' ...just read how people reacted to his first post...there is enough poison on here, without 'my undue influence' don't make me laugh

This forum is a laugh ...the same few people saying the same things over and over again , like debaters with headphones on just reciting from a script

What is one of the most ludicrous things is how so many think they know so much about riders form and have insight into performance,etc

BTW your language demonstrates your own 'poison'

 

[Metabolol]

When it comes to MTFs NIbali isn't as good as Contador or Froome but he is good enough to challenge both in the GC by being such an all-around rider. And weren't his numbers from the TDF 2014 pretty close to Froome's numbers from 2013 and 2015?

It's all speculation but I think hadn't Contador and Froome DNFed at the 2014 TDF it would have been a close run battle. As good as Nibali was climbing in that Tour I still think both Contador and Froome would have been able to drop Nibali at some point. But I'm not at all sure that they would have been able to gain back all the time. It's also perfectly possible he would have attacked at every chance he got and not allowed either Froome or Contador that much room to mount an offence.

I would also like to see what happens if Froome is more isolated in the mountains. How would he handle Nibali in a Giro if it ended up being more of a 1 on 1 battle and everything wasn't controlled until the final climb?

 

[Metabolol]

I also don't consider Froome to be a boring rider, it's more a question of team sky's overall strength and if you are in a position of control there is no need to open up the race/a stage. If you put for example Froome on a weaker team and stick him into one of the early 00s vuelta's he would provide good entertainment.

The main negatives with Froome is the team he rides for and the focus on the TDF. Something has to be done to make the races harder to control, it will make the races more entertaining. Riders such as Nibali would really benefit from that.

 

[dacooley]

Re:

Any 'all-roundness' tends to be strongly romanticized and overrated when speaking about grand tours. almost all of them are won by a classic scheme (time trials + mountains) with a pure force. the 2012 vuelta stands apart a little big in this regard, nonetheless bertie was much stronger than purito at the most decisive day on fuente de which made the difference. thus far, nibs doesn't show a physical ability how he's gonna beat contador and froome in grand tours but probably so far, things can change occasionally.

yeah, let's openly encourage hate directed at sky instead of poisoning one's mind. LOL

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

I also don't consider Froome to be a boring rider, it's more a question of team sky's overall strength and if you are in a position of control there is no need to open up the race/a stage. If you put for example Froome on a weaker team and stick him into one of the early 00s vuelta's he would provide good entertainment.

The main negatives with Froome is the team he rides for and the focus on the TDF. Something has to be done to make the races harder to control, it will make the races more entertaining. Riders such as Nibali would really benefit from that.

Thing is that happened on Stage 9 of the 2013 tour when Froome was the only Sky rider in the front group, problem was everyone bar Dan Martin and Fulgsang was spent afterwards. Now instead of a spent Kriyienka and Suitsou, Ryder Hesjedal throwing Kennaugh off a mountain and a spent Porte. Sky thought oh crap and spent Wiggins and EBH's salaries on some Super Doms and it's now Roche, Nieve, Konig, Kwaitkowski, Kennaugh and Thomas to deal with before you get to Froome.

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

Any 'all-roundness' tends to be strongly romanticized and overrated when speaking about grand tours. almost all of them are won by a classic scheme (time trials + mountains) with a pure force. the 2012 vuelta stands apart a little big in this regard, nonetheless bertie was much stronger than purito at the most decisive day on fuente de which made the difference. thus far, nibs doesn't show a physical ability how he's gonna beat contador and froome in grand tours but probably so far, things can change occasionally.

yeah, let's openly encourage hate directed at sky instead of poisoning one's mind. LOL

For Nibali to beat Contador and Froome in top shape he can't rely on TTs or wait for MTFs. He would have to gain time in other situations. I don't see that as impossible.

And how much time would he lose in the climbs if he climbs like he did in the 2014 TDF and 2013 Vuelta? I still think he would been in striking distance even if he lost some time.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Any 'all-roundness' tends to be strongly romanticized and overrated when speaking about grand tours. almost all of them are won by a classic scheme (time trials + mountains) with a pure force. the 2012 vuelta stands apart a little big in this regard, nonetheless bertie was much stronger than purito at the most decisive day on fuente de which made the difference. thus far, nibs doesn't show a physical ability how he's gonna beat contador and froome in grand tours but probably so far, things can change occasionally.

yeah, let's openly encourage hate directed at sky instead of poisoning one's mind. LOL

For Nibali to beat Contador and Froome in top shape he can't rely on TTs or wait for MTFs. He would have to gain time in other situations. I don't see that as impossible.

And how much time would he lose in the climbs if he climbs like he did in the 2014 TDF and 2013 Vuelta? I still think he would been in striking distance even if he lost some time.

the thing is gaining time in other terrains is harder especially in the tour, tt and mtfs is a way way safer bet.

i have to idea. i find it extremely speculative to compare shape of riders from different races in different seasons. probably, nibs' 2014 tour level would've been enough to lose to bertie and froome in the mountains
little by little and keep the yellow jersey. probably, not. anyway the 1st one is more probable.

 

[Davesta]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

How is that discussion still going?

Froome might not have a higher W/kg if he had balls the size of Nibali's
And Id still take Nibali's palmares over Froome's any day of the week.

Same for me.
Whenever I entertain comparisons of this sort, I always just ask myself "If I had the choice, which type of rider would I rather be?"
And the answer in this case is very simple - Nibali, by miles. Attacking, skilful, gutsy, unpredictable. Easy choice.

As for personality though...I do wish Nibali would act a bit less like a petulant teenager in interviews!

 

[silvergrenade]

First of all, I would like to say that there has been some incredible support, unexpected of course but greatly appreciated. (Refer to Second Post)
As to reply Mr. Aerobars, who is a fellow lurker like me, I'm incredibly pleased that I could illicit such a response. I'd say its my honour sir. Sorry for the late response as it was my country's Republic Day.

1. Your first point was about me cherry picking races. I did nothing of that sort sir. I simply compiled all the races where they met head to head after Chris Froome turned into a leader. Comparing anything before that is counterproductive owing to the fact that it would not give us the clear picture. Eg. We can't compare Richie Porte against say Vincenzo Nibali because he put it efforts which weren't to win but to help someone else win. Now, with his switch to BMC we can really put it to test as to who's better.

2. I didn't amplify anything, my dear sir, just merged their palmares to get the races where they went head to head as race leaders I.e. where they went to WIN.

3. As for putting the asterisks, please see the compilation closely again. I've put an asterisk on the 2015 Vuelta where VN was thrown out and a clear battle couldn't take place.

4. My aim was never to glorify his 2 Tour wins as you can see from the post. But since you talk about it, isn't he the only multiple Tour de France winner in recent times? Yeah, he is. Must be awesome.

5. Well, I've not even mentioned the 2013 Tour and you, sir, are howling about it, God knows why.

6. You can clearly see that when they've gone head to head, Chris froome leads 7-2. (When both were leaders)

7. I'm curious about the point you make about Nibali giving courtesy to Froome. I'm sure they just rode on at the same pace. In Zeeland, was it Team Sky that attacked? I think it was Tinkoff Saxo, no?

8. Also, attacking the yellow Jersey in the mountains when he's had a mechanical is cheap, really cheap.... Ofc its not cheaper than talking crap about your own teammates. (Lol).
I'm pretty sure most ppl would not agree about Contador attacking Schleck in the mountains when he was in yellow, which clearly was visible at the podium ceremony, and Contador, the amazing rider that he is, apologized to his fans. (Incredible). Something I can't say is true for Vincenzo Nibali.(Lol)

9. 2014 TdF, in majority's opinion was the worst in recent history. Many ppl have written about it. Please refer that only. JC Peraud on the podium. Lol.(Thank you ppl)

10. About one trick pony and Nibali being this amazing rider according to you. As you have seen I like to draw analogies. I would prefer being Novak Djokovic than Gael Monfils, because he wins, and wins and wins. Gael Monfils can be the eternal crowds favourite, dive to get across to balls but he would never go into a tourney as the favourite.

11. I'm really surprised you even brought doping tests up. What team does Nibali ride for? Ohh.. Astana, isn't it? Wasn't it gonna lose its racing license. Might have heard wrong. Sorry sir. Sorry, from the bottom of my heart. I heard many people got a positive from Astana. Damn, must have heard wrong. (Lol)

12. As for missed dope tests, I'm curious how many VN has missed in his career. Instead of applauding a rider for telling the public that he missed a drug test, you're vilifying him. The guy whose team's many riders test positive is being applauded. Must be some world I'm living in.

13. Thrown out for hanging onto a car. I'm again surprised you even brought that up. There's a stark difference between the Nibali case and The Chris Froome case. Nibali is the designated leader of a world tour team. He has media all around him. He's going for the win. Froome, at that time, was a lowly domestique, completely wasted. He was half an hour behind and would eventually have withdrawn. Nibali, on the other hand cracked under pressure. He as well as his team. Its hilarious looking at that video. You should have a look too.

14. As for being obsessed with something….
Its funny but my dad says to be successful that something, be obsessed and work hard towards it and you’ll get it. I think Chris Froome is doing the same. He’s trying to win the toughest bike race in the world multiple times. I really do hope though, that VN wins a few more GTs against the likes of Rigoberto and JC Peraud cus he CAN beat them in my opinion.

PS: I used to not hate VN but his comments about his teammates was the final nail in the coffin. I mean, how can anybody be this arrogant and snotty? Does he even know what happened in the Tour 15? Maybe not. Still living in his own bubble. (Lol)
Another thing which was really hilarious was his brushing aside of Chris Froome as even a favourite to win the Tour 15 saying in a pre-Tour interview stating that Chris Froome’s fitness is not as good as his, Quintana and Contadors. I guess he just forgot that he lost the Criterium du Dauphine 2015 handily to that guy only.
He should really learn some humility.

Have a goodun guys.

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Re:

First of all, I would like to say that there has been some incredible support, unexpected of course but greatly appreciated. (Refer to Second Post)
As to reply Mr. Aerobars, who is a fellow lurker like me, I'm incredibly pleased that I could illicit such a response. I'd say its my honour sir. Sorry for the late response as it was my country's Republic Day.

1. Your first point was about me cherry picking races. I did nothing of that sort sir. I simply compiled all the races where they met head to head after Chris Froome turned into a leader. Comparing anything before that is counterproductive owing to the fact that it would not give us the clear picture. Eg. We can't compare Richie Porte against say Vincenzo Nibali because he put it efforts which weren't to win but to help someone else win. Now, with his switch to BMC we can really put it to test as to who's better.

2. I didn't amplify anything, my dear sir, just merged their palmares to get the races where they went head to head as race leaders I.e. where they went to WIN.

3. As for putting the asterisks, please see the compilation closely again. I've put an asterisk on the 2015 Vuelta where VN was thrown out and a clear battle couldn't take place.

4. My aim was never to glorify his 2 Tour wins as you can see from the post. But since you talk about it, isn't he the only multiple Tour de France winner in recent times? Yeah, he is. Must be awesome.

5. Well, I've not even mentioned the 2013 Tour and you, sir, are howling about it, God knows why.

6. You can clearly see that when they've gone head to head, Chris froome leads 7-2. (When both were leaders)

7. I'm curious about the point you make about Nibali giving courtesy to Froome. I'm sure they just rode on at the same pace. In Zeeland, was it Team Sky that attacked? I think it was Tinkoff Saxo, no?

8. Also, attacking the yellow Jersey in the mountains when he's had a mechanical is cheap, really cheap.... Ofc its not cheaper than talking crap about your own teammates. (Lol).
I'm pretty sure most ppl would not agree about Contador attacking Schleck in the mountains when he was in yellow, which clearly was visible at the podium ceremony, and Contador, the amazing rider that he is, apologized to his fans. (Incredible). Something I can't say is true for Vincenzo Nibali.(Lol)

9. 2014 TdF, in majority's opinion was the worst in recent history. Many ppl have written about it. Please refer that only. JC Peraud on the podium. Lol.(Thank you ppl)

10. About one trick pony and Nibali being this amazing rider according to you. As you have seen I like to draw analogies. I would prefer being Novak Djokovic than Gael Monfils, because he wins, and wins and wins. Gael Monfils can be the eternal crowds favourite, dive to get across to balls but he would never go into a tourney as the favourite.

11. I'm really surprised you even brought doping tests up. What team does Nibali ride for? Ohh.. Astana, isn't it? Wasn't it gonna lose its racing license. Might have heard wrong. Sorry sir. Sorry, from the bottom of my heart. I heard many people got a positive from Astana. Damn, must have heard wrong. (Lol)

12. As for missed dope tests, I'm curious how many VN has missed in his career. Instead of applauding a rider for telling the public that he missed a drug test, you're vilifying him. The guy whose team's many riders test positive is being applauded. Must be some world I'm living in.

13. Thrown out for hanging onto a car. I'm again surprised you even brought that up. There's a stark difference between the Nibali case and The Chris Froome case. Nibali is the designated leader of a world tour team. He has media all around him. He's going for the win. Froome, at that time, was a lowly domestique, completely wasted. He was half an hour behind and would eventually have withdrawn. Nibali, on the other hand cracked under pressure. He as well as his team. Its hilarious looking at that video. You should have a look too.

14. As for being obsessed with something….
Its funny but my dad says to be successful that something, be obsessed and work hard towards it and you’ll get it. I think Chris Froome is doing the same. He’s trying to win the toughest bike race in the world multiple times. I really do hope though, that VN wins a few more GTs against the likes of Rigoberto and JC Peraud cus he CAN beat them in my opinion.

PS: I used to not hate VN but his comments about his teammates was the final nail in the coffin. I mean, how can anybody be this arrogant and snotty? Does he even know what happened in the Tour 15? Maybe not. Still living in his own bubble. (Lol)
Another thing which was really hilarious was his brushing aside of Chris Froome as even a favourite to win the Tour 15 saying in a pre-Tour interview stating that Chris Froome’s fitness is not as good as his, Quintana and Contadors. I guess he just forgot that he lost the Criterium du Dauphine 2015 handily to that guy only.
He should really learn some humility.

Have a goodun guys.

Contador i also a multiple TDF winner , 2007 and 2009, and dont forget that froome received a gel in the last 20 k`s

 

[Jspear]

Re:

First of all, I would like to say that there has been some incredible support, unexpected of course but greatly appreciated. (Refer to Second Post)
As to reply Mr. Aerobars, who is a fellow lurker like me, I'm incredibly pleased that I could illicit such a response. I'd say its my honour sir. Sorry for the late response as it was my country's Republic Day.

1. Your first point was about me cherry picking races. I did nothing of that sort sir. I simply compiled all the races where they met head to head after Chris Froome turned into a leader. Comparing anything before that is counterproductive owing to the fact that it would not give us the clear picture. Eg. We can't compare Richie Porte against say Vincenzo Nibali because he put it efforts which weren't to win but to help someone else win. Now, with his switch to BMC we can really put it to test as to who's better.

2. I didn't amplify anything, my dear sir, just merged their palmares to get the races where they went head to head as race leaders I.e. where they went to WIN.

3. As for putting the asterisks, please see the compilation closely again. I've put an asterisk on the 2015 Vuelta where VN was thrown out and a clear battle couldn't take place.

4. My aim was never to glorify his 2 Tour wins as you can see from the post. But since you talk about it, isn't he the only multiple Tour de France winner in recent times? Yeah, he is. Must be awesome.

5. Well, I've not even mentioned the 2013 Tour and you, sir, are howling about it, God knows why.

6. You can clearly see that when they've gone head to head, Chris froome leads 7-2. (When both were leaders)

7. I'm curious about the point you make about Nibali giving courtesy to Froome. I'm sure they just rode on at the same pace. In Zeeland, was it Team Sky that attacked? I think it was Tinkoff Saxo, no?

8. Also, attacking the yellow Jersey in the mountains when he's had a mechanical is cheap, really cheap.... Ofc its not cheaper than talking crap about your own teammates. (Lol).
I'm pretty sure most ppl would not agree about Contador attacking Schleck in the mountains when he was in yellow, which clearly was visible at the podium ceremony, and Contador, the amazing rider that he is, apologized to his fans. (Incredible). Something I can't say is true for Vincenzo Nibali.(Lol)

9. 2014 TdF, in majority's opinion was the worst in recent history. Many ppl have written about it. Please refer that only. JC Peraud on the podium. Lol.(Thank you ppl)

10. About one trick pony and Nibali being this amazing rider according to you. As you have seen I like to draw analogies. I would prefer being Novak Djokovic than Gael Monfils, because he wins, and wins and wins. Gael Monfils can be the eternal crowds favourite, dive to get across to balls but he would never go into a tourney as the favourite.

11. I'm really surprised you even brought doping tests up. What team does Nibali ride for? Ohh.. Astana, isn't it? Wasn't it gonna lose its racing license. Might have heard wrong. Sorry sir. Sorry, from the bottom of my heart. I heard many people got a positive from Astana. Damn, must have heard wrong. (Lol)

12. As for missed dope tests, I'm curious how many VN has missed in his career. Instead of applauding a rider for telling the public that he missed a drug test, you're vilifying him. The guy whose team's many riders test positive is being applauded. Must be some world I'm living in.

13. Thrown out for hanging onto a car. I'm again surprised you even brought that up. There's a stark difference between the Nibali case and The Chris Froome case. Nibali is the designated leader of a world tour team. He has media all around him. He's going for the win. Froome, at that time, was a lowly domestique, completely wasted. He was half an hour behind and would eventually have withdrawn. Nibali, on the other hand cracked under pressure. He as well as his team. Its hilarious looking at that video. You should have a look too.

14. As for being obsessed with something….
Its funny but my dad says to be successful that something, be obsessed and work hard towards it and you’ll get it. I think Chris Froome is doing the same. He’s trying to win the toughest bike race in the world multiple times. I really do hope though, that VN wins a few more GTs against the likes of Rigoberto and JC Peraud cus he CAN beat them in my opinion.

PS: I used to not hate VN but his comments about his teammates was the final nail in the coffin. I mean, how can anybody be this arrogant and snotty? Does he even know what happened in the Tour 15? Maybe not. Still living in his own bubble. (Lol)
Another thing which was really hilarious was his brushing aside of Chris Froome as even a favourite to win the Tour 15 saying in a pre-Tour interview stating that Chris Froome’s fitness is not as good as his, Quintana and Contadors. I guess he just forgot that he lost the Criterium du Dauphine 2015 handily to that guy only.
He should really learn some humility.

Have a goodun guys.

The 2014 Tour is NOT the worst tour in recent years. I'm not sure how you can claim "the majority think so." The "majority" would more than likely say the 2012 tour was one of the worst in recent years.

 

[Alexandre B.]

JC Péraud had great results before his Tour podium (4th in Tirreno, 3th in Pais Vasco, 1st in Critérium International), so don't "lol".

 

[Walkman]

Re:

First of all, I would like to say that there has been some incredible support, unexpected of course but greatly appreciated. (Refer to Second Post)
As to reply Mr. Aerobars, who is a fellow lurker like me, I'm incredibly pleased that I could illicit such a response. I'd say its my honour sir. Sorry for the late response as it was my country's Republic Day.

1. Your first point was about me cherry picking races. I did nothing of that sort sir. I simply compiled all the races where they met head to head after Chris Froome turned into a leader. Comparing anything before that is counterproductive owing to the fact that it would not give us the clear picture. Eg. We can't compare Richie Porte against say Vincenzo Nibali because he put it efforts which weren't to win but to help someone else win. Now, with his switch to BMC we can really put it to test as to who's better.

2. I didn't amplify anything, my dear sir, just merged their palmares to get the races where they went head to head as race leaders I.e. where they went to WIN.

3. As for putting the asterisks, please see the compilation closely again. I've put an asterisk on the 2015 Vuelta where VN was thrown out and a clear battle couldn't take place.

4. My aim was never to glorify his 2 Tour wins as you can see from the post. But since you talk about it, isn't he the only multiple Tour de France winner in recent times? Yeah, he is. Must be awesome.

5. Well, I've not even mentioned the 2013 Tour and you, sir, are howling about it, God knows why.

6. You can clearly see that when they've gone head to head, Chris froome leads 7-2. (When both were leaders)

7. I'm curious about the point you make about Nibali giving courtesy to Froome. I'm sure they just rode on at the same pace. In Zeeland, was it Team Sky that attacked? I think it was Tinkoff Saxo, no?

8. Also, attacking the yellow Jersey in the mountains when he's had a mechanical is cheap, really cheap.... Ofc its not cheaper than talking crap about your own teammates. (Lol).
I'm pretty sure most ppl would not agree about Contador attacking Schleck in the mountains when he was in yellow, which clearly was visible at the podium ceremony, and Contador, the amazing rider that he is, apologized to his fans. (Incredible). Something I can't say is true for Vincenzo Nibali.(Lol)

9. 2014 TdF, in majority's opinion was the worst in recent history. Many ppl have written about it. Please refer that only. JC Peraud on the podium. Lol.(Thank you ppl)

10. About one trick pony and Nibali being this amazing rider according to you. As you have seen I like to draw analogies. I would prefer being Novak Djokovic than Gael Monfils, because he wins, and wins and wins. Gael Monfils can be the eternal crowds favourite, dive to get across to balls but he would never go into a tourney as the favourite.

11. I'm really surprised you even brought doping tests up. What team does Nibali ride for? Ohh.. Astana, isn't it? Wasn't it gonna lose its racing license. Might have heard wrong. Sorry sir. Sorry, from the bottom of my heart. I heard many people got a positive from Astana. Damn, must have heard wrong. (Lol)

12. As for missed dope tests, I'm curious how many VN has missed in his career. Instead of applauding a rider for telling the public that he missed a drug test, you're vilifying him. The guy whose team's many riders test positive is being applauded. Must be some world I'm living in.

13. Thrown out for hanging onto a car. I'm again surprised you even brought that up. There's a stark difference between the Nibali case and The Chris Froome case. Nibali is the designated leader of a world tour team. He has media all around him. He's going for the win. Froome, at that time, was a lowly domestique, completely wasted. He was half an hour behind and would eventually have withdrawn. Nibali, on the other hand cracked under pressure. He as well as his team. Its hilarious looking at that video. You should have a look too.

14. As for being obsessed with something….
Its funny but my dad says to be successful that something, be obsessed and work hard towards it and you’ll get it. I think Chris Froome is doing the same. He’s trying to win the toughest bike race in the world multiple times. I really do hope though, that VN wins a few more GTs against the likes of Rigoberto and JC Peraud cus he CAN beat them in my opinion.

PS: I used to not hate VN but his comments about his teammates was the final nail in the coffin. I mean, how can anybody be this arrogant and snotty? Does he even know what happened in the Tour 15? Maybe not. Still living in his own bubble. (Lol)
Another thing which was really hilarious was his brushing aside of Chris Froome as even a favourite to win the Tour 15 saying in a pre-Tour interview stating that Chris Froome’s fitness is not as good as his, Quintana and Contadors. I guess he just forgot that he lost the Criterium du Dauphine 2015 handily to that guy only.
He should really learn some humility.

Have a goodun guys.

The 2014 Tour is NOT the worst tour in recent years. I'm not sure how you can claim "the majority think so." The "majority" would more than likely say the 2012 tour was one of the worst in recent years.

The level pf competition in the 2014 Tour was without a doubt the worst in recent years. 2012 may have been a borefest but all those finishing on the podium that year are stronger riders than the second and third place finishers from 2014.

JC Péraud had great results before his Tour podium (4th in Tirreno, 3th in Pais Vasco, 1st in Critérium International), so don't "lol".

Pote has way better results in now week races, so your argument isn't really that good. Péraud had one top ten finish in a GT before 2014 and he was like 35 years old then so needless say, he isn't what you would consider "tough competition".