- Jun 30, 2014
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I've always liked Nibali as a rider, but he has really started to act like a dive.
At least he still hasn't lost his sense of humour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-33G13Fp3w
At least he still hasn't lost his sense of humour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-33G13Fp3w
- Jan 23, 2016
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This is my first post everybody and I went through this forum and saw some interesting conversations.
About Nibali vs Froome
Everybody has seen that Chris Froome has beaten Nibali on the climbs as well as TTs handily, be it the Tour 2012 (he chased all the attcks from Nibali), or the Tour 2015, Dauphine 2015; And any TT for that matter. Froome smokes TTs.
Some people wrote about Froome not having a full palmares. The fact is that Froome has won GTs handily, the two Tours which is bigger than any Nibali win and Nibali himself knows that he cannot win the Tour. Even his team doesnt want Nibali in the Tour team, reason why he needs to go to the Giro since he has no option. Looking at his performances at Tour san luis in 2016, it shows that his level still sucks in terms of climbing legs when he actually said before the tour that he's going there to win. Either he doesn't know his own condition or he's nowhere near the rider he once was.
Kindly don't compare Froome with Nibali cus its like comparing Ronda Roussey to Holly Holm. She got knocked out when she claimed nobody can knock her out.
About Nibali vs Froome
Everybody has seen that Chris Froome has beaten Nibali on the climbs as well as TTs handily, be it the Tour 2012 (he chased all the attcks from Nibali), or the Tour 2015, Dauphine 2015; And any TT for that matter. Froome smokes TTs.
Some people wrote about Froome not having a full palmares. The fact is that Froome has won GTs handily, the two Tours which is bigger than any Nibali win and Nibali himself knows that he cannot win the Tour. Even his team doesnt want Nibali in the Tour team, reason why he needs to go to the Giro since he has no option. Looking at his performances at Tour san luis in 2016, it shows that his level still sucks in terms of climbing legs when he actually said before the tour that he's going there to win. Either he doesn't know his own condition or he's nowhere near the rider he once was.
Kindly don't compare Froome with Nibali cus its like comparing Ronda Roussey to Holly Holm. She got knocked out when she claimed nobody can knock her out.
- Mar 13, 2015
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silvergrenade said:
I agree with most of what you have said here but you must remember that on this forum that most of those posting are Contator or Nibali fans and dont like Froome/SKY so you are bound to get alot of flak for this type of post ...I wouldn't mind if people argued the points you raised whether agreeing or not but unfortunately their are alot of know it all who will ridicule your contribution hence increasing the chances you won't post again...Guess it keeps the little clique of posters safe in their own world
- Jan 23, 2016
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Re: Re:
I agree you're all Nibali fans, maybe Italian so i would agree to your Nibali love but please if you wanna talk facts lets talk facts.
1. Comparing the GTs
2011 Vuelta- CF>>>VN
2012 Tour CF>>>VN
2014 Tour* VN>CF(Crash)
2015 Tour CF>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VN
2015 Vuelta* CF>>>VN
2. Comparing other races
2013 Tirreno Adriatico VN>CF(It wasnt that Nibali was stronger but more about the conditions of the race but given his victory he's been given greater points, Froome 2nd)
2013 Tour of Oman CF>>>>VN(Nibali finished 7th, Froome won)
2014 Tour of Romandie CF>>>>>VN(Nibali finished 5th, Froome won)
2015 Tour of Romandie CF>>>>VN(Nibali finished 10th)
This was as far as racing goes. Ofc some ppl would say that Nibali has done well in the classics and all. Let's not forget Chris Froome is 2012 Olympics Bronze Medallist. 3rd in the UCI road championships TT. He also is the favourite going into Rio 2016 for the TT(As said by Tony Martin) and will race as the leader in the road race if he wants to(We'll see how that goes.)
3. As for how the persons are, lets do that too.
a. Chris Froome appreciates his teammates, while Nibali does just the opposite; he berates them when he can't hold their wheels in the biggest race of them all and he himself said that his season is based around the TdF. Its like not knowing how to dance and saying that the dance floor is slanted.
b. When you get in some crash, you throw bottles at your nearest rival cus that's the only way you can beat them and the aggrieved party has to go to the person who wronged to calm the situation.(Next level ***)
c. You attack the yellow jersey in the 3rd week in the mountains when he's had a mechanical. Simply the best. Tssk Tssk, Vincenzo.
d. You take car lifts and panic in the first week of a GT due to a crash because they know they are not good enough to take time in the mountains.
e. As for Chris Froome, see the guy talk people. Extremely humble and polite. Something I really can't say for VN.
Thanks for the read; hope to have good conversations with you in the future as well.
PS. This is not to aggravate anybody.
cantpedal said:
I agree you're all Nibali fans, maybe Italian so i would agree to your Nibali love but please if you wanna talk facts lets talk facts.
1. Comparing the GTs
2011 Vuelta- CF>>>VN
2012 Tour CF>>>VN
2014 Tour* VN>CF(Crash)
2015 Tour CF>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VN
2015 Vuelta* CF>>>VN
2. Comparing other races
2013 Tirreno Adriatico VN>CF(It wasnt that Nibali was stronger but more about the conditions of the race but given his victory he's been given greater points, Froome 2nd)
2013 Tour of Oman CF>>>>VN(Nibali finished 7th, Froome won)
2014 Tour of Romandie CF>>>>>VN(Nibali finished 5th, Froome won)
2015 Tour of Romandie CF>>>>VN(Nibali finished 10th)
This was as far as racing goes. Ofc some ppl would say that Nibali has done well in the classics and all. Let's not forget Chris Froome is 2012 Olympics Bronze Medallist. 3rd in the UCI road championships TT. He also is the favourite going into Rio 2016 for the TT(As said by Tony Martin) and will race as the leader in the road race if he wants to(We'll see how that goes.)
3. As for how the persons are, lets do that too.
a. Chris Froome appreciates his teammates, while Nibali does just the opposite; he berates them when he can't hold their wheels in the biggest race of them all and he himself said that his season is based around the TdF. Its like not knowing how to dance and saying that the dance floor is slanted.
b. When you get in some crash, you throw bottles at your nearest rival cus that's the only way you can beat them and the aggrieved party has to go to the person who wronged to calm the situation.(Next level ***)
c. You attack the yellow jersey in the 3rd week in the mountains when he's had a mechanical. Simply the best. Tssk Tssk, Vincenzo.
d. You take car lifts and panic in the first week of a GT due to a crash because they know they are not good enough to take time in the mountains.
e. As for Chris Froome, see the guy talk people. Extremely humble and polite. Something I really can't say for VN.
Thanks for the read; hope to have good conversations with you in the future as well.
PS. This is not to aggravate anybody.
Re: Re:
A lot of good points, but Froome has also taken car lifts and when did Froome come third in the road Championships ITT? In my view someone like Martin is probably just deferring pressure onto someone else, the hard route will ensure fatigue from the TDF will be punished.silvergrenade said:
- May 11, 2013
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Re:
I think so. The TT was good, he was pulling his team to third place, the hilly stage was good, the first MTF not, the last one good after pulling for Lopez and in the last stage he was at the front of the peloton in the last few kms. All in all good signs.
SafeBet said:Amazingly, 8th on the second MTF of the Tour de San Luis could be seen as a good sign.
Last year he didn't have a top10 until the Tour de Romandie
I think so. The TT was good, he was pulling his team to third place, the hilly stage was good, the first MTF not, the last one good after pulling for Lopez and in the last stage he was at the front of the peloton in the last few kms. All in all good signs.
I believe the Nibs 2016 form will be better than his 2015, but he won't be as good as in 2014...
Sadly, but I think he already is in the declining part of his career. He can probably feel it and that makes him nervous, much less confident in himself. Which is quite a shock for a guy that's always been super confident in his own means. Hope he'll prove me wrong though.
Sadly, but I think he already is in the declining part of his career. He can probably feel it and that makes him nervous, much less confident in himself. Which is quite a shock for a guy that's always been super confident in his own means. Hope he'll prove me wrong though.
- Aug 16, 2013
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Re:
In the declining part of his career? The guy won Lombardia and finished 4th in the Tour!
That Tour 2014 just ruined his career a bit. A lot of cycling followers think that's the new Nibali standard, and are judging every perfomance on that Tour. But that's not the reality. He won that Tour after Froome and Contador, the two biggest pre-favourites, crashed, and against Thibaut Pinot (who wasn't top-5 GC material at that time actually), a 37-year old JC Peraud and the worst Valverde in the Tour you can imagine.
I think his 2015 Tour's performance wasn't that bad. OK, he was under par in the first two weaks, but in the Alps he was almost the old Nibali. The Nibali of the last weak in the Tour and spring, is the Nibali you can and should expect. Or a Nibali in 2013 shape.
Don't remember that Nibali was always a great rider, but mostly because of his allround capacitites, his attacking instinct and his true racing spirit. In terms of climbing, he has his off days, and there are better climbers in the peloton. That Tour of 2014 tented to believe he was the best climber in the world, but he wasn't/isn't. Yeah, against Pinot and Peraud. But if guys like Froome, Contador, Quintana and even Bala and Purito are in shape, he can be dropped.
huge said:
In the declining part of his career? The guy won Lombardia and finished 4th in the Tour!
That Tour 2014 just ruined his career a bit. A lot of cycling followers think that's the new Nibali standard, and are judging every perfomance on that Tour. But that's not the reality. He won that Tour after Froome and Contador, the two biggest pre-favourites, crashed, and against Thibaut Pinot (who wasn't top-5 GC material at that time actually), a 37-year old JC Peraud and the worst Valverde in the Tour you can imagine.
I think his 2015 Tour's performance wasn't that bad. OK, he was under par in the first two weaks, but in the Alps he was almost the old Nibali. The Nibali of the last weak in the Tour and spring, is the Nibali you can and should expect. Or a Nibali in 2013 shape.
Don't remember that Nibali was always a great rider, but mostly because of his allround capacitites, his attacking instinct and his true racing spirit. In terms of climbing, he has his off days, and there are better climbers in the peloton. That Tour of 2014 tented to believe he was the best climber in the world, but he wasn't/isn't. Yeah, against Pinot and Peraud. But if guys like Froome, Contador, Quintana and even Bala and Purito are in shape, he can be dropped.
Re: Re:
SilverGrenade, I too have been a long time lurker on in this forum but never thought I would create an account just to trash another rider but from your post "grenade" truly fits your style because that's what you are doing throwing a grenade and hiding behind Froome palmares hoping not to get some of the flashback, but of all the things I read this one inspired me create an account as a fellow lurker just to answer you.
Firstly, one can always cherry pick races and say Froome was better than Nibali in that race and put asterisks behind all of Nibalis wins implying they werent justified or he got lucky.
You amplify Froomes wins while trying to diminish Nibalis, but here are some things you cannot change.
Nibali and Froome started riding grand tours roughly the same time. Nibali in 2007 w/Giro and Froome 2008 w/Tour. Since then Nibali has won ALL THREE Grand Tours to Froomes 2 TDFs. Just on Grand Tours alone, Nibali has a better palmares, but lets go on.
Nibali has riden 14 GT with 3 wins and finishing in top ten in 10 of them top 20 in 13 and one DNF(last years vuelta) his worst is 19th in vuelta and tdf. Froome has riden 11GT two wins top ten in 6 his worst 83 in TDF and 32 in vuelta with 3DNF
As for Froomes Tour wins, Nibali did not ride the tour in 2013 so you cannot say that he beat Nibali in that tour. Froome however did start the 2014 tour and could not stay on his bike and eventually had to withdraw because he kept falling off his bike. Nibali could have taken advantage of Froomes many accidents during 2014 but being the gentleman he is he waited for Froome(as prev winner/unwritten rule) during both of his crashes giving him time to rejoin the peloton, a courtesy Froome did not give to Nibali during crash in Zeeland in 2015.
When Froome crashed out in 2014 Nibali was already in the yellow jersey so he was already beating Froome. Although Nibali had an unfortunate start to 2015 he was the only rider in the GC to make drastic gains and change his position from basically being out of the race to finishing within the top 5, and using your logic one could say Froome won because of "conditions" and not because he was better--wind in Zeeland. If you look at the ITT for 2015TDF - Nibali beat Froome in the ITT. As noted Froome did NOT finish in 2014 so HE LOST and even Alex Howes beat Froome that year.
Between Froome and Nibali - Nibali is the only one to have a first place and second place in GT in the same year. As for the lesser stage races, they have both won some and lost some and I give no real significance to those wins and losses.
As for Classics Froome since 2008 has ridden a whopping 6 Classics mainly LBL his best result 36th and two DNF
Nibali since 2008 has ridden 21 Classics (Milan-Sanremo, LBL, Il Lombardia) with only 2DNF and finishing top ten in seven culminating with his Lombardia win 2015.
Nibali has riden more races than Froome period, simply - he likes to ride his bike, and not JUST ride but RACE! Froome has been a single minded one trick pony for the past three years. Statistically(on paper) Nibali is a better rider - on the road Nibali is a better rider as he is more animated and takes on bigger challenges and more risks than Froome.
As for not being liked that is just innuendo and opinions, there is not proof to support any of what you claim. As for being a poor sportsman one can look to Froomes 2012 tour performance and see what type of sportsman he really is, and as someone already stated, froome was also thrown out for hanging on to a car, he also violated feeding rules, used his asthma pump during a race, and missed a doping control test last year - those are facts.
On a more positive note, I do agree with observation that Nibali is exhibiting better form in comparison to last year. He knows he only has a few more years of racing, and has openly stated he is not obsessed with winning TDF, I am sure he wants to probably win LBL or San Remo before career is over. He has already won all three GTs and have nothing more to prove on that front. He will continue to ride them and fight for a win, but if he doesn't win a GT ever again, HE HAS ALREADY WON ALL THREE. I get the feeling that while some are obsessed with winning 7TDFs, Nibali has other races he would like to focus on heading into the twilight of his career.
I could go on but I will end it there.
silvergrenade said:
SilverGrenade, I too have been a long time lurker on in this forum but never thought I would create an account just to trash another rider but from your post "grenade" truly fits your style because that's what you are doing throwing a grenade and hiding behind Froome palmares hoping not to get some of the flashback, but of all the things I read this one inspired me create an account as a fellow lurker just to answer you.
Firstly, one can always cherry pick races and say Froome was better than Nibali in that race and put asterisks behind all of Nibalis wins implying they werent justified or he got lucky.
You amplify Froomes wins while trying to diminish Nibalis, but here are some things you cannot change.
Nibali and Froome started riding grand tours roughly the same time. Nibali in 2007 w/Giro and Froome 2008 w/Tour. Since then Nibali has won ALL THREE Grand Tours to Froomes 2 TDFs. Just on Grand Tours alone, Nibali has a better palmares, but lets go on.
Nibali has riden 14 GT with 3 wins and finishing in top ten in 10 of them top 20 in 13 and one DNF(last years vuelta) his worst is 19th in vuelta and tdf. Froome has riden 11GT two wins top ten in 6 his worst 83 in TDF and 32 in vuelta with 3DNF
As for Froomes Tour wins, Nibali did not ride the tour in 2013 so you cannot say that he beat Nibali in that tour. Froome however did start the 2014 tour and could not stay on his bike and eventually had to withdraw because he kept falling off his bike. Nibali could have taken advantage of Froomes many accidents during 2014 but being the gentleman he is he waited for Froome(as prev winner/unwritten rule) during both of his crashes giving him time to rejoin the peloton, a courtesy Froome did not give to Nibali during crash in Zeeland in 2015.
When Froome crashed out in 2014 Nibali was already in the yellow jersey so he was already beating Froome. Although Nibali had an unfortunate start to 2015 he was the only rider in the GC to make drastic gains and change his position from basically being out of the race to finishing within the top 5, and using your logic one could say Froome won because of "conditions" and not because he was better--wind in Zeeland. If you look at the ITT for 2015TDF - Nibali beat Froome in the ITT. As noted Froome did NOT finish in 2014 so HE LOST and even Alex Howes beat Froome that year.
Between Froome and Nibali - Nibali is the only one to have a first place and second place in GT in the same year. As for the lesser stage races, they have both won some and lost some and I give no real significance to those wins and losses.
As for Classics Froome since 2008 has ridden a whopping 6 Classics mainly LBL his best result 36th and two DNF
Nibali since 2008 has ridden 21 Classics (Milan-Sanremo, LBL, Il Lombardia) with only 2DNF and finishing top ten in seven culminating with his Lombardia win 2015.
Nibali has riden more races than Froome period, simply - he likes to ride his bike, and not JUST ride but RACE! Froome has been a single minded one trick pony for the past three years. Statistically(on paper) Nibali is a better rider - on the road Nibali is a better rider as he is more animated and takes on bigger challenges and more risks than Froome.
As for not being liked that is just innuendo and opinions, there is not proof to support any of what you claim. As for being a poor sportsman one can look to Froomes 2012 tour performance and see what type of sportsman he really is, and as someone already stated, froome was also thrown out for hanging on to a car, he also violated feeding rules, used his asthma pump during a race, and missed a doping control test last year - those are facts.
On a more positive note, I do agree with observation that Nibali is exhibiting better form in comparison to last year. He knows he only has a few more years of racing, and has openly stated he is not obsessed with winning TDF, I am sure he wants to probably win LBL or San Remo before career is over. He has already won all three GTs and have nothing more to prove on that front. He will continue to ride them and fight for a win, but if he doesn't win a GT ever again, HE HAS ALREADY WON ALL THREE. I get the feeling that while some are obsessed with winning 7TDFs, Nibali has other races he would like to focus on heading into the twilight of his career.
I could go on but I will end it there.
both are truly fantastic riders. nibs being a great gutsy rider is a proven fact. froome is a really weird guy from many points of view, though even he has many qualities to be liked for. still, thinking that nibali's wins is a triupmh of talent, tactics, panache, racing imagination etc while froome's wins is a triumph of something we are not entitled to discuss in this subforum' IS a territory where real paranoia starts.
I am not questioning any of Froome's wins, but trying to say his wins carry more weight and are more valid than Nibali's is ludicrous. Nibali clearly has a more comprehensive palmares in comparison to Froome not to mention he also has MORE WINS.
- Jan 25, 2016
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Re:
Not to bash Nibali in any way but he did win against riders like Rigoberto Urán, Jean-Christophe Péraud, Thibaut Pinot, Peter Velits and Joaquim Rodríguez( great as he is, he isnt the best gt rider as he lack the tt ability and will probaly never win a gt )
Froome on the other hand won against rider like Quintana, Contador and nibali ( riders who has all won one or more gt´s), so i would rate his victories higher.
Remember Fausto coppi is consideret one of, if not, the greatest of all time. Not beacuse he won the most gt´s but because he won against a very competetive field
AeroBars said:
Not to bash Nibali in any way but he did win against riders like Rigoberto Urán, Jean-Christophe Péraud, Thibaut Pinot, Peter Velits and Joaquim Rodríguez( great as he is, he isnt the best gt rider as he lack the tt ability and will probaly never win a gt )
Froome on the other hand won against rider like Quintana, Contador and nibali ( riders who has all won one or more gt´s), so i would rate his victories higher.
Remember Fausto coppi is consideret one of, if not, the greatest of all time. Not beacuse he won the most gt´s but because he won against a very competetive field
Re: Re:
What matters is that he WON, you can rate it higher doesn't make it higher. He won Giro, Tour, and Vuelta - Grand Tours. Also both Froome and Contador were AT THE START LINE in 2014TDF after a few stages neither finished, both were behind Nibali when they crashed out, you want to nullify Froomes crashes as if they are not part of the race - they are. That means Nibali BEAT THEM! That's how I rate it.
SevenTimeTdfChamp said:
What matters is that he WON, you can rate it higher doesn't make it higher. He won Giro, Tour, and Vuelta - Grand Tours. Also both Froome and Contador were AT THE START LINE in 2014TDF after a few stages neither finished, both were behind Nibali when they crashed out, you want to nullify Froomes crashes as if they are not part of the race - they are. That means Nibali BEAT THEM! That's how I rate it.
- Feb 18, 2015
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Re: Nibali discussion thread
To make a long story short, I just unintentionally deleted two post so I lost half an hour of my life so I will keep this their version of my reply a bit shorter
@silvergrenade:
I disagree with big parts of your post but what made me write my first reply was your last statement:
"Kindly don't compare Froome with Nibali cus its like comparing Ronda Roussey to Holly Holm. She got knocked out when she claimed nobody can knock her out."
To write something like that is just extremely snotty. I even agree that Froome is a bit better than Nibali, or at least I don't put Nibali above Froome. But you write as if Froome is by far better in absolutely everything not considering that Nibali is the better bike handler, therefore the better descender, he is more aggressive and he is the better classics rider. Just don't write "you must not compare froome with nibali" because that comparison wouldnt even be almost as clearly as you maybe think
To make a long story short, I just unintentionally deleted two post so I lost half an hour of my life so I will keep this their version of my reply a bit shorter
@silvergrenade:
I disagree with big parts of your post but what made me write my first reply was your last statement:
"Kindly don't compare Froome with Nibali cus its like comparing Ronda Roussey to Holly Holm. She got knocked out when she claimed nobody can knock her out."
To write something like that is just extremely snotty. I even agree that Froome is a bit better than Nibali, or at least I don't put Nibali above Froome. But you write as if Froome is by far better in absolutely everything not considering that Nibali is the better bike handler, therefore the better descender, he is more aggressive and he is the better classics rider. Just don't write "you must not compare froome with nibali" because that comparison wouldnt even be almost as clearly as you maybe think
They are all great riders and I think it might be fair to say we are all fans of all them to some degree though some might appreciate one more than another, but the facts are the facts. Anyway since this is my first time posting, I would like to say I have enjoyed getting the perspectives of many of the posters throughout this forum, I have enjoyed all your commentary and analysis it has at different times funny and informative. You have helped educate me on the history as well as current state of cycling. Now I will go back to lurking.
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