Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

Very reminiscent of when the great Contador lost 1.30 to Mollema on 5 kilometres on Ax-3-Domaines.

I would really, really like to see him to well. He is a present to the peloton. You could almost feel the anger when he tried to respond and just couldn't. Slongo, you fool.

 

[SafeBet]

I just hope he doesn't quit the Giro.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

2013, no Slongo, wins Giro, TA, Trentino, 3rd in Burgos and almost Vuelta. Next year Slongo works on a lancelike peak, it works while doing nothing all year. 2015, let's do it again, nothing all year it fails at Le Tour, sent home from Vuelta he picks himself up, I assume no Slongo strategy, wins almost all Italian one day races and Lombardia. This year he starts very well, then after TA Slongo says take 10 days off then Teide. Comes back and he's crap ever since. Surely something is wrong here?

Sounds like you think poor Paolo is what's wrong

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

I just hope he doesn't quit the Giro.

They have to kick him out like in Vuelta. Always finished the GTs.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

2013, no Slongo, wins Giro, TA, Trentino, 3rd in Burgos and almost Vuelta. Next year Slongo works on a lancelike peak, it works while doing nothing all year. 2015, let's do it again, nothing all year it fails at Le Tour, sent home from Vuelta he picks himself up, I assume no Slongo strategy, wins almost all Italian one day races and Lombardia. This year he starts very well, then after TA Slongo says take 10 days off then Teide. Comes back and he's crap ever since. Surely something is wrong here?

Sounds like you think poor Paolo is what's wrong

Not my words, of course, after Le Tour 2015:

"In my opinion Vincenzo was wrong in repeating the same preparation as last year: his coach, the competent Paolo Slongo, is an excellent copyist, but not (yet) a real artist."

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

2013, no Slongo, wins Giro, TA, Trentino, 3rd in Burgos and almost Vuelta. Next year Slongo works on a lancelike peak, it works while doing nothing all year. 2015, let's do it again, nothing all year it fails at Le Tour, sent home from Vuelta he picks himself up, I assume no Slongo strategy, wins almost all Italian one day races and Lombardia. This year he starts very well, then after TA Slongo says take 10 days off then Teide. Comes back and he's crap ever since. Surely something is wrong here?

Sounds like you think poor Paolo is what's wrong

Not my words, of course, after Le Tour 2015:

"In my opinion Vincenzo was wrong in repeating the same preparation as last year: his coach, the competent Paolo Slongo, is an excellent copyist, but not (yet) a real artist."

Who said it?

 

[ad9898]

I think that 'hanging onto the car' incident is reminiscent of Nibali full stop, likes to take short cuts. I've never been a fan and that kind of can't be arsed blatant cheating doesn't do him any favours. Has he ever been really good ? Never seen it against real competition. He just seems lazy on the bike, if his training regime is the same these results aren't a surprise

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

2013, no Slongo, wins Giro, TA, Trentino, 3rd in Burgos and almost Vuelta. Next year Slongo works on a lancelike peak, it works while doing nothing all year. 2015, let's do it again, nothing all year it fails at Le Tour, sent home from Vuelta he picks himself up, I assume no Slongo strategy, wins almost all Italian one day races and Lombardia. This year he starts very well, then after TA Slongo says take 10 days off then Teide. Comes back and he's crap ever since. Surely something is wrong here?

Sounds like you think poor Paolo is what's wrong

Not my words, of course, after Le Tour 2015:

"In my opinion Vincenzo was wrong in repeating the same preparation as last year: his coach, the competent Paolo Slongo, is an excellent copyist, but not (yet) a real artist."

Who said it?

The VAM Inventor

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

Nibali keeps underestimating his opponent. The Dumoulin-Vuelta copy/paste from Aru won't work because he is now actually weaker than his main opponent.

He'll just keep getting countered and burned.
And the further away he starts, the better for Diesel Kruijswijk. It's like Nibali is blind to his opponent strengths. If he wanted to beat him it would be by explosivity and maybe downhill. This was the dumbest tactic, Not that I mind.

I disagree completely. This is not about being dropped by Kruijswijk. It's about being dropped by Firsanov and Bob Jungels, with all due respect.

He's not blind to his opponent strength, he looks blind to his own strength. That's the problem.
He's been attacking from the first week and I truly don't understand why. He's feeling good and then pops? He's feeling bad and attacks anyway? Even Cassani doesn't have a clue about this.

+10
If one is not good, one has to hide & follow. Just ask Valverde.

 

[Eclipse]

It is so baffling. He was so consistently good for so long and even when he did mess it up last year he was still able to work back to a good level across 3 weeks. This race though he just seems to have not had it in the legs at all and is obviously trying to force things to happen and finding a worse response every time.

I'd wager he'll see it out because I don't think he'll want to quit in Italy (even if his team want him to pull out and re-focus) but he needs a major change up next season to work out what has gone wrong (though I'd still expect him to salvage something from this season somewhere).

 

[staubsauger]

He should just follow the path of Hennie Kuiper and re-invent himself as a major classics contender from my pov!

 

[phil-i-am]

Kudos to Nibali for trying to win despite his current shape. Crucial moment was at the top of Mendola. Kruijsvijk digged very hard trying to follow lo squalo but couldn't close the gap for a while. That was Valverde who made the junction. If shark had held even a small gap, especially with Piti joining him, results could have been totally different. Kangert was up the road, while Kruijsvijk had absolutely nobody. It could've been from about weak 30-60s at the beggining of last climb with Orica working for second place to minutes if everyone followed the Dutchman. Having said that, I admit that Kruijsvijk is simply the strongest.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

I just hope he doesn't quit the Giro.

They have to kick him out like in Vuelta. Always finished the GTs.

he needs to hang on to the team car to do that. Now he is racing for a pride. 3 days in a row he dropped like a stone. I hope he wakes up now. This last couple years, he hasn't been great. Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

Nibali keeps underestimating his opponent. The Dumoulin-Vuelta copy/paste from Aru won't work because he is now actually weaker than his main opponent.

He'll just keep getting countered and burned.
And the further away he starts, the better for Diesel Kruijswijk. It's like Nibali is blind to his opponent strengths. If he wanted to beat him it would be by explosivity and maybe downhill. This was the dumbest tactic, Not that I mind.

I disagree completely. This is not about being dropped by Kruijswijk. It's about being dropped by Firsanov and Bob Jungels, with all due respect.

He's not blind to his opponent strength, he looks blind to his own strength. That's the problem.
He's been attacking from the first week and I truly don't understand why. He's feeling good and then pops? He's feeling bad and attacks anyway? Even Cassani doesn't have a clue about this.

+10
If one is not good, one has to hide & follow. Just ask Valverde.

For the fans who want spectacular racing it is definitely the opposite
Nibali today,
Contador Galibier 2011
Froome Courchevel Dauphine 2014

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

As some have already written it, the opponents aren't the problem. Kruijswijk is surely strong but even the 3rd week shape Nibali had in the tdf last year would probably have been enough to beat him or at least follow him. And back then everyone said that he completely messed up his preparation and still, beside the PSM stage he was the 3rd or 4th best climber of the tour but in this giro it seems as if he is barely in the top ten, and that in a way weaker field.

In the 2nd week I complained about all the other gc riders because I was 100% sure that he would become stronger and stronger just like in the tdf and even when he dropped on the corvara he still was the clear favorite for me because I just though he would be way stronger in the last two mountain stages. But no, his level on stage 15 and 16 is probably the worst I have ever seen from him in any grand tour, considering the worse competitors probably even worse than PSM, and that over a few weeks.

I'm just so sad about it. I wouldn't even complain about a not at top shape Nibali who has to do long range attacks (like he tried today) but I at least want a Nibali who can fight for the gc of gt. I want the old Lo Squalo back

 

[silvergrenade]

I think he'll blame in on the teammates. He'll say that he was giving orders and they weren't listening.

 

[arvc40]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Problem for Nibali is in his head because he knows that he couldn't even match Aru now. If he believed in himself he would not be letting Aru be leader at the Tour !, He would say no way, I'm number one in this Team and I'm 2014 winner and I want redemption this year !!. But no, he has taken the submissive option.

 

[Red Rick]

Aru doing the Tour isn't that much about Aru suddenly being top dog. It's about variation in schedule. In the Tour you'd take Nibali against Froome and Contador and Quintana any day even though he may have a 50% chance of sucking

 

[The Chicken]

Re:

I just hope he doesn't quit the Giro.

He will quit.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

2013, no Slongo, wins Giro, TA, Trentino, 3rd in Burgos and almost Vuelta. Next year Slongo works on a lancelike peak, it works while doing nothing all year. 2015, let's do it again, nothing all year it fails at Le Tour, sent home from Vuelta he picks himself up, I assume no Slongo strategy, wins almost all Italian one day races and Lombardia. This year he starts very well, then after TA Slongo says take 10 days off then Teide. Comes back and he's crap ever since. Surely something is wrong here?

Sounds like you think poor Paolo is what's wrong

Not my words, of course, after Le Tour 2015:

"In my opinion Vincenzo was wrong in repeating the same preparation as last year: his coach, the competent Paolo Slongo, is an excellent copyist, but not (yet) a real artist."

Who said it?

The VAM Inventor

That didn't help me.

 

[Red Rick]

Then I'd guess it would be Ferrari

 

[arvc40]

Re:

Aru doing the Tour isn't that much about Aru suddenly being top dog. It's about variation in schedule. In the Tour you'd take Nibali against Froome and Contador and Quintana any day even though he may have a 50% chance of sucking

Aru is now top dog at Astana !. Hes the future for the Team. Aru wants a shot at Tour now !. Bet there is no variation next year !. One reason being Nibali may be gone !, Which would be another submissive move on his part.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Aru doing the Tour isn't that much about Aru suddenly being top dog. It's about variation in schedule. In the Tour you'd take Nibali against Froome and Contador and Quintana any day even though he may have a 50% chance of sucking

Aru is now top dog at Astana !. Hes the future for the Team. Aru wants a shot at Tour now !. Bet there is no variation next year !. One reason being Nibali may be gone !, Which would be another submissive move on his part.

Aru might be Astana's top dog but after the tour Astana will probably realize that the giro is a better place for him. Sorry but I see absolutely no way he will beat the likes of Froome, Quintana and Contador. I think even Pinot, and maybe even TJVG and Porte are bigger favorites for the tour than him. He will probably still improve in the future, but not that much and I generally don't really think he will ever be able to reach the level Nibali had in 2013/14

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Aru doing the Tour isn't that much about Aru suddenly being top dog. It's about variation in schedule. In the Tour you'd take Nibali against Froome and Contador and Quintana any day even though he may have a 50% chance of sucking

Aru is now top dog at Astana !. Hes the future for the Team. Aru wants a shot at Tour now !. Bet there is no variation next year !. One reason being Nibali may be gone !, Which would be another submissive move on his part.

Aru might be Astana's top dog but after the tour Astana will probably realize that the giro is a better place for him. Sorry but I see absolutely no way he will beat the likes of Froome, Quintana and Contador. I think even Pinot, and maybe even TJVG and Porte are bigger favorites for the tour than him. He will probably still improve in the future, but not that much and I generally don't really think he will ever be able to reach the level Nibali had in 2013/14

What?
No,just no.TJVG is waay overrated.Porte is waaay overrated in GTs as well.Aru is a great climber who can do damage uphill.

 

[Rollthedice]

Vino has limited expectations from Aru at the Tour, sent him there to try him, see what's his level. I'm sure Vino wants a podium but I find it very hard to achieve. He had an incredible team around in Giro and Vuelta, much stronger than Nibali's, the key to his success. Put Aru in FDJ 2015 and he'll maybe top five in any GT with strong competition.