Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

What did Nibali do to this guy? Is he gone for good?

He started facing real competition and got found out

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

The watts (both estimated and as per Slongo) and the results relative to an elite group of riders that is unlikely to change much year to year, both disagree with that.

 

[Rollthedice]

“We planned his season so that Vincenzo’s form would build gradually during the season, so that he’d be good for the Giro d’Italia, the Tour de France and through to the Olympics,” says Slongo. I think it's the first time we find out he's really doing Le Tour. So the prep was targeted to be competitive in France also? If so he thought he'll win the Giro half-prepared just to find out that guys like Kruij and Chavez are mucho stronger?

 

[SeriousSam]

Would he really do that when he failed to beat Valverde at the Tour last year, who had reportedly made the Giro a top target?

And why would it be so important for him to have a very good level at the Tour, when Aru leads it and the competition projects to be better than perhaps ever?

 

[Climbing]

Re:

“We planned his season so that Vincenzo’s form would build gradually during the season, so that he’d be good for the Giro d’Italia, the Tour de France and through to the Olympics,” says Slongo. I think it's the first time we find out he's really doing Le Tour. So the prep was targeted to be competitive in France also? If so he thought he'll win the Giro half-prepared just to find out that guys like Kruij and Chavez are mucho stronger?

I don't think that is possible in modern cycling.
To be honest I would have targeted the Olympics for sure, after all it's huge and Nibali already won Giro and Tour, plus the course is tailor made for him.
It's seriously once in a lifetime.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

“We planned his season so that Vincenzo’s form would build gradually during the season, so that he’d be good for the Giro d’Italia, the Tour de France and through to the Olympics,” says Slongo. I think it's the first time we find out he's really doing Le Tour. So the prep was targeted to be competitive in France also? If so he thought he'll win the Giro half-prepared just to find out that guys like Kruij and Chavez are mucho stronger?

I posted this after Trentino:
'How reliable is that? Is it normal, or does it only apply to Nibali cause the likes of Scarponi, Kangert and Fuglsang doesnt seem to have those problems (altitude problems). Are they lying, trying to protect Nibali and give him an opportunity to get back into shape without the media being all over him? Is it a Slongo-experiment gone wrong, is Nibali to the lazy side or has he passed his 13-14 prime? Is it maybe clinical?'

I never thought of Nibali being sneaky enough to try to win the Giro at 90% and dethroning Aru at Astana. I like the idea, but at this point, it seems a bit stupid.

 

[Red Rick]

Seems like he messed up prior to Trentino already. He was steadily improving little by little through the Giro, but then on the Corvara he was the only one to do a solo effort toward the finish line. Recuperation is worse when your shape is worse.

 

[staubsauger]

Hmm if that statement is true though his 3rd place so far looks okay if we take the 2008 Giro performance of Menchov as a reference.

 

[Rollthedice]

Legend to a photo from the press conference today "The press meet to speak with Vincenzo Nibali in Hell" ...that's the hotel where they stay.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

So is the general consensus that Nibs just doesn't train as hard now he is a family man? Likewise, he doesn't seem to be willing to push as much on descents since his daughter was born either.

Nibali always had a reputation of not being the hardest worker, even back in the Liquigas days, apparently Basso always had more more self-disciplined. I remember a quote, If Basso would eat like Nibali he'd be fat. Nibali was never the guy who was super strict and disciplined durning winter, at least that's what they always said durning the Liquigas days.

Gotta be said that compared to Basso nobody looks like a hard worker.

 

[sir fly]

“Perhaps we’ve made mistakes, even attacking in the wrong moments but that’s also because we went for it, we put our necks on the line,” Slongo argued.

“Even on the big Dolomite stage we went on the attack on the Passo Valparola. Vincenzo made two big attacks and kept going when he realised that Valverde wasn’t there. Then the others attacked him and got away. That’s racing, you never know how other riders are feeling and so you end up being a little to generous and paying for it.”

I know it's not some consolation, but the fans appreciate these "tactical mistakes".
You've played it for audience and shouldn't be regretful.

P.S.
I'm reading this lamentful, managementless, press conference allegorically.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

So is the general consensus that Nibs just doesn't train as hard now he is a family man? Likewise, he doesn't seem to be willing to push as much on descents since his daughter was born either.

Nibali always had a reputation of not being the hardest worker, even back in the Liquigas days, apparently Basso always had more more self-disciplined. I remember a quote, If Basso would eat like Nibali he'd be fat. Nibali was never the guy who was super strict and disciplined durning winter, at least that's what they always said durning the Liquigas days.

Gotta be said that compared to Basso nobody looks like a hard worker.

Yeah, that's probably true.
Still, Nibali would probably be better if he had one of these training camps before the Giro:

 

[Carols]

"Too many people expected too much from me, but sometimes we don't manage to give everything. We're not robots," Nibali said at one point. "Honestly, I feel this big weight on me, as though everybody expected something from me as an inevitability."

It's been like this since his Tour win I think. He feels the pressure instead of being tranquilo which was previously one of his biggest assets.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re:

"Too many people expected too much from me, but sometimes we don't manage to give everything. We're not robots," Nibali said at one point. "Honestly, I feel this big weight on me, as though everybody expected something from me as an inevitability."

It's been like this since his Tour win I think. He feels the pressure instead of being tranquilo which was previously one of his biggest assets.

bcos of which he eats more - a stress related syndrome ?

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

"Too many people expected too much from me, but sometimes we don't manage to give everything. We're not robots," Nibali said at one point. "Honestly, I feel this big weight on me, as though everybody expected something from me as an inevitability."

It's been like this since his Tour win I think. He feels the pressure instead of being tranquilo which was previously one of his biggest assets.

But his palmares means he always will have that type of pressure on him, he's supposed to be one the most complete GT riders around.

 

[dacooley]

Nibs is super rider, but unlike bertie or even froome, it's really difficult to build a nimbus of magician on the bike around him on a rational basis. but nonetheless people keep doing it with maniacal persistence. hype, hype, hype...nibs to destroy, demolish, wreck, make a statement, put 1 minutes into the entire field on descent etc. etc...Yes, it's a nature of fans, a few people want a favorite rider to struggle and overbear himself on the way to winning while almost everyone wants to see complete destruction..I feel like after a certain point (tour 14) it made nibali feel tremendous pressure he cant deal with so far.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Nibs is super rider, but unlike bertie or even froome, it's really difficult to build a nimbus of magician on the bike around him on a rational basis. but nonetheless people keep doing it with maniacal persistence. hype, hype, hype...nibs to destroy, demolish, wreck, make a statement, put 1 minutes into the entire field on descent etc. etc...Yes, it's a nature of fans, a few people want a favorite rider to struggle and overbear himself on the way to winning while almost everyone wants to see complete destruction..I feel like after a certain point (tour 14) it made nibali feel tremendous pressure he cant deal with so far.

He is already sounding beaten. How many GTs has this guy won ? Pressure should be second nature to him by now. Maybe just admit he has been out performed so far. You would never hear Contador or Froome say this especially at this stage of the race. Just accept it and get on with it. Admittedly SK and Chaves have probably surprised him as well. He was probably looking at Landa and Uran to be his main challengers before the race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Nibs is super rider, but unlike bertie or even froome, it's really difficult to build a nimbus of magician on the bike around him on a rational basis. but nonetheless people keep doing it with maniacal persistence. hype, hype, hype...nibs to destroy, demolish, wreck, make a statement, put 1 minutes into the entire field on descent etc. etc...Yes, it's a nature of fans, a few people want a favorite rider to struggle and overbear himself on the way to winning while almost everyone wants to see complete destruction..I feel like after a certain point (tour 14) it made nibali feel tremendous pressure he cant deal with so far.

He is already sounding beaten. How many GTs has this guy won ? Pressure should be second nature to him by now. Maybe just admit he has been out performed so far. You would never hear Contador or Froome say this especially at this stage of the race. Just accept it and get on with it. Admittedly SK and Chaves have probably surprised him as well. He was probably looking at Landa and Uran to be his main challengers before the race.

Ain't nobody considered the train wreck that is Urán to challenge Nibali, apart from Taxus.

I agree with the narrative here, though.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Nibs is super rider, but unlike bertie or even froome, it's really difficult to build a nimbus of magician on the bike around him on a rational basis. but nonetheless people keep doing it with maniacal persistence. hype, hype, hype...nibs to destroy, demolish, wreck, make a statement, put 1 minutes into the entire field on descent etc. etc...Yes, it's a nature of fans, a few people want a favorite rider to struggle and overbear himself on the way to winning while almost everyone wants to see complete destruction..I feel like after a certain point (tour 14) it made nibali feel tremendous pressure he cant deal with so far.

He is already sounding beaten. How many GTs has this guy won ? Pressure should be second nature to him by now. Maybe just admit he has been out performed so far. You would never hear Contador or Froome say this especially at this stage of the race. Just accept it and get on with it. Admittedly SK and Chaves have probably surprised him as well. He was probably looking at Landa and Uran to be his main challengers before the race.

Ain't nobody considered the train wreck that is Urán to challenge Nibali, apart from Taxus.

I agree with the narrative here, though.

Well with the Uran of the past few years he always looks better on paper. I think it's almost at the point now where you can say he is no longer possible for a podium. A bit like Gesink after showing early promise but Gesink had a shocking run of accidents and injuries and Uran has had some of that as well.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

What did Nibali do to this guy? Is he gone for good?

He started facing real competition and got found out

So you are saying that Nibali is worse than Landa,Valverde,Kruiswijk,Chavez in 2014 form?

 

[SafeBet]

I honestly think he's declining. I don't believe he can mess his preparation two years in a row. He's been a pro for ten years, he must know his body. And he's got the best coaches around.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

I honestly think he's declining. I don't believe he can mess his preparation two years in a row. He's been a pro for ten years, he must know his body. And he's got the best coaches around.

Indeed.You still shouldn't get eaten by Majka and Jungels.

 

[Red Rick]

Go home Nibali, you're drunk

 

[Miburo]

Re:

I honestly think he's declining. I don't believe he can mess his preparation two years in a row. He's been a pro for ten years, he must know his body. And he's got the best coaches around.

Idk, he's been getting better and better with the tour 2014 as a climax.

Suddenly he dropped down to a shape of which i can't even remember when it was this bad? 2009?

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Astana got rid of the wrong guy