Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Re: Nibali discussion thread

Carols said:
Tonton said:
Rollthedice said:
Wait a minute, '12 he was defeteated by an army of newly created sky bots led by the best stage racer of that particular year, in '15 he was whacked by two of the big boys while he whacked the fourth. He'll ride Le Tour to prepare for Rio and troll the other three and while at it, Aru also. He will never say he's there to win it but I expect at least an attack from no less than 20k to go and a stage win. No problem with his legacy.
I see your point, but disagree big time. If I'm a three GT winner, unless I'm very prepared, I don't go to France in July. I'm gonna get my *** handed to me. And I'll look stupid. Legacy.
4 time GT winner...
I meant winning all three GTs :D .
 
He has no pressure for July. I think he'll attack on stage 5 or the stage to Luchon. Put some pressure on the others, whilst trying for some success. Nobody expects him to contend for the podium, and with good reason. I think he'll try to be close enough in GC to be a threat, but once he has to let go, I think he'll save himself.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

Tonton said:
Carols said:
Tonton said:
Rollthedice said:
Wait a minute, '12 he was defeteated by an army of newly created sky bots led by the best stage racer of that particular year, in '15 he was whacked by two of the big boys while he whacked the fourth. He'll ride Le Tour to prepare for Rio and troll the other three and while at it, Aru also. He will never say he's there to win it but I expect at least an attack from no less than 20k to go and a stage win. No problem with his legacy.
I see your point, but disagree big time. If I'm a three GT winner, unless I'm very prepared, I don't go to France in July. I'm gonna get my *** handed to me. And I'll look stupid. Legacy.
4 time GT winner...
I meant winning all three GTs :D .
LOL good cover up :)
 
Re:

Astana will be super strong in the Tour. Nibali can act as a decoy for Aru while playing his own chances. If he succeeds, it would be an amazing feat, but if he fails they have Aru to rely on and he can work for Aru.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

Carols said:
Tonton said:
Carols said:
Tonton said:
Rollthedice said:
Wait a minute, '12 he was defeteated by an army of newly created sky bots led by the best stage racer of that particular year, in '15 he was whacked by two of the big boys while he whacked the fourth. He'll ride Le Tour to prepare for Rio and troll the other three and while at it, Aru also. He will never say he's there to win it but I expect at least an attack from no less than 20k to go and a stage win. No problem with his legacy.
I see your point, but disagree big time. If I'm a three GT winner, unless I'm very prepared, I don't go to France in July. I'm gonna get my *** handed to me. And I'll look stupid. Legacy.
4 time GT winner...
I meant winning all three GTs :D .
LOL good cover up :)
Read my post :) .
 
Re:

Nibali haters don't like this post ;)
hrotha said:
Nibali and Chaves didn't make Kruijswijk crash on the descent, no. However, they created a situation that maximized the chances of it happening: they were going relatively fast on a technical descent right after a hard climb where everybody was half dead. That's exactly the kind of situation where people make mistakes.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

Nibali & Luck 2016 Giro Executive Summary
- Nibali was «unlucky» he got dysentery the night before the MTT
- Nibali was «lucky» Kruijswijk crashed
- Nibali jumped 3 places, including 2 riders that didn't crash, to win his 2nd Giro
 
I hit the 5 quote limit....this is in response to Tonton:

Well I've read it multiple times. Had it said "winner of all 3 GTs" I would know what you meant. But as it stands I could say Merckx is an 11 GT winner and it gives no reference to which ones, just as your comment gives no reference to which ones, simply a number. The correct number is 4 unless you qualify your number :)
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

Nibali has the silliest haters. He was lucky to win one of the most difficult stages, he was lucky to drop his opponents again on the following day, another Giro-quality stage, he was lucky the line he had delineated on a bend (which Chavito followed) caused Crushweak to crash. What is this nonsense about Kruisjwijk being by far the strongest? Most people were wondering if he would even be able to win a stage: there was even an entire thread about it. Guess who did win a stage. I want to do a remake of Jaws and call it Lucky the Shark, where all the fisherman get eaten and their families go hungry and weep on the shore.

Edit: It's based on a true story.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

phanatic said:
Nibali has the silliest haters. He was lucky to win one of the most difficult stages, he was lucky to drop his opponents again on the following day, another Giro-quality stage, he was lucky the line he had delineated on a bend (which Chavito followed) caused Crushweak to crash. What is this nonsense about Kruisjwijk being by far the strongest? Most people were wondering if he would even be able to win a stage: there was even an entire thread about it. Guess who did win a stage. I want to do a remake of Jaws and call it Lucky the Shark, where all the fisherman get eaten and their families go hungry and weep on the shore.

Edit: It's based on a true story.
Kruisjwijk up until the fatal moment, was the strongest guy in the mountains in the race. This is undeniable. Even if he had a natural drop in performance and Nibali rode as he did, it is still highly unlikely that, without the crash, the Sicilian would have taken 4:43 back from the Dutchman.

Nibili pulled off a sensational comback, nobody denies that. However, it is equally undeniable that he was greatly assissted by the leader's misfortune and by the physical limits of a Chavez, who is hardly a champion at this stage in his career. No "hating" here, but we really shouldn't be intellectually dishonest by saying Nibali did it all on his own legs. I mean this by when a crash (it doesn't matter if on the flat, uphill, downhill) seriously compromises the outcome of the race. That would be the same as saying Nibali beat Contador and Froome at the 14 Tour exclusively on his own legs, which is BS. For that is not the case and this should be considered when assessing the real athletic merits of his achievements.

I've just noted the great hand Furtune has played in his successes and I stand by this.

At any rate, none of this matters come July, when Nibali will be up against much fiercer foes. May the best man win.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

rhubroma said:
phanatic said:
Nibali has the silliest haters. He was lucky to win one of the most difficult stages, he was lucky to drop his opponents again on the following day, another Giro-quality stage, he was lucky the line he had delineated on a bend (which Chavito followed) caused Crushweak to crash. What is this nonsense about Kruisjwijk being by far the strongest? Most people were wondering if he would even be able to win a stage: there was even an entire thread about it. Guess who did win a stage. I want to do a remake of Jaws and call it Lucky the Shark, where all the fisherman get eaten and their families go hungry and weep on the shore.

Edit: It's based on a true story.
Kruisjwijk up until the fatal moment, was the strongest guy in the mountains in the race. This is undeniable. Even if he had a natural drop in performance and Nibali rode as he did, it is still highly unlikely that, without the crash, the Sicilian would have taken 4:43 back from the Dutchman.

Nibili pulled off a sensational comback, nobody denies that. However, it is equally undeniable that he was greatly assissted by the leader's misfortune and by the physical limits of a Chavez, who is hardly a champion at this stage in his career. No "hating" here, but we really shouldn't be intellectually dishonest by saying Nibali did it all on his own legs. That would be the same as saying Nibali beat Contador and Froome at the 14 Tour exclusively on his own legs, which is BS. For that is not the case and this should be considered when assessing the real athletic merits of his achievements.

I've just noted the great hand Furtune has played in his successes and I stand by this.

At any rate, none of this matters come July, when Nibali will be up against much fiercer foes. May the best man win.
I doubt if Nibali would've been able to take back over 4 minutes without crash but I think that he would've been able to take few of them anyways because he was clearly in much much better shape than in previous 2.5 weeks. In a shape that you can actually win GT with.

phanatic said:
Nibali has the silliest haters. He was lucky to win one of the most difficult stages, he was lucky to drop his opponents again on the following day, another Giro-quality stage, he was lucky the line he had delineated on a bend (which Chavito followed) caused Crushweak to crash. What is this nonsense about Kruisjwijk being by far the strongest? Most people were wondering if he would even be able to win a stage: there was even an entire thread about it. Guess who did win a stage. I want to do a remake of Jaws and call it Lucky the Shark, where all the fisherman get eaten and their families go hungry and weep on the shore.

Edit: It's based on a true story.
It's getting incredebly silly. If a person is a multiple times GT winner then it clearly isn't luck.
 
every cynical fanboy is willing to assert himself at the expense of nibali's win by reading the posts of vitriol haters and every vitriol hater continues to wail about how lucky nibali was... that's tiresome. level up your objectivity ladies and gentlemen.
 
Sep 18, 2015
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If he goes to Le Tour, not so sure the other big contenders will let him go regardless what Astana says about leadership. I dont see Contador,Froome or Nairo (and respective teams) leave him too much road, so it can be a good way for Astana and Aru to make them waste energy very early. Anyway, i did not had a look at the parcour,so mo idea if there is room to invent something form the beginning.
 
Re:

Flat Out said:
If he goes to Le Tour, not so sure the other big contenders will let him go regardless what Astana says about leadership. I dont see Contador,Froome or Nairo (and respective teams) leave him too much road
Totally agree.

Froome, Contador and Quintana are not so naive to underestimate Nibali, whatever is said before the race.
Either he loses minutes during the first week, or they will mark him as they would do with any other big GC contender.

Unless Nibali is in the form of his life and stands a real chance to be competitive for overall, the best move for him would be the drop back during the first stages, lose ground and take himself totally out of the GC competion.
Only then he might have same freedom and be able to go for stage hunting.

Slongo said the plan is for him to start the Tour undertrained, therefore far from top form.
And to use Le Tour to improve his shape, coming out from it ready for the Olympics.

Rio is only 2 weeks after the Tour ends. Fighting hard for overall in France would harm his chances in the Olympic race. Two weeks are definitely not enough for a full recovery. Especially for a guy that has also ridden the Giro.
 
Apr 2, 2013
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Re: Nibali discussion thread

rhubroma said:
Kruisjwijk up until the fatal moment, was the strongest guy in the mountains in the race. This is undeniable. Even if he had a natural drop in performance and Nibali rode as he did, it is still highly unlikely that, without the crash, the Sicilian would have taken 4:43 back from the Dutchman.

Nibili pulled off a sensational comback, nobody denies that. However, it is equally undeniable that he was greatly assissted by the leader's misfortune and by the physical limits of a Chavez, who is hardly a champion at this stage in his career. No "hating" here, but we really shouldn't be intellectually dishonest by saying Nibali did it all on his own legs. I mean this by when a crash (it doesn't matter if on the flat, uphill, downhill) seriously compromises the outcome of the race. That would be the same as saying Nibali beat Contador and Froome at the 14 Tour exclusively on his own legs, which is BS. For that is not the case and this should be considered when assessing the real athletic merits of his achievements.

I've just noted the great hand Furtune has played in his successes and I stand by this.

At any rate, none of this matters come July, when Nibali will be up against much fiercer foes. May the best man win.
Had Kruijswijk not have been put under such pressure by Nibali and Chaves he would likely have remained in pink however before and after his crash Nibali was doing all he could to fight and reclaim lost ground from earlier in the giro, any fortune a rider gets on his way to winning a grand tour and any help recieved by others along the way is nothing compared to the work and suffering they've had to endure to make it so, as such Chaves would have been a worthy winner and not a lucky one just as Nibali is a worthy victor.


rhubroma said:
At any rate, none of this matters come July, when Nibali will be up against much fiercer foes. May the best man win.
"None of this matters come July" what sort of 'only le tour matters' thinking is this? the tour doesn't matter when discussing the merits of a Giro victory, is this some weak attempt come July to show how weak Nibali is whilst forgetting the Giro exists?
 
Re:

Carols said:
I hit the 5 quote limit....this is in response to Tonton:

Well I've read it multiple times. Had it said "winner of all 3 GTs" I would know what you meant. But as it stands I could say Merckx is an 11 GT winner and it gives no reference to which ones, just as your comment gives no reference to which ones, simply a number. The correct number is 4 unless you qualify your number :)
Come on, 3 GT winner, winner of the 3 GTs. :rolleyes: if he had meant 3-time GT winner he would have written 3-time GT winner.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

rhubroma said:
Kruisjwijk up until the fatal moment, was the strongest guy in the mountains in the race. This is undeniable. Even if he had a natural drop in performance and Nibali rode as he did, it is still highly unlikely that, without the crash, the Sicilian would have taken 4:43 back from the Dutchman.

Nibili pulled off a sensational comback, nobody denies that. However, it is equally undeniable that he was greatly assissted by the leader's misfortune and by the physical limits of a Chavez, who is hardly a champion at this stage in his career. No "hating" here, but we really shouldn't be intellectually dishonest by saying Nibali did it all on his own legs. I mean this by when a crash (it doesn't matter if on the flat, uphill, downhill) seriously compromises the outcome of the race. That would be the same as saying Nibali beat Contador and Froome at the 14 Tour exclusively on his own legs, which is BS. For that is not the case and this should be considered when assessing the real athletic merits of his achievements.

I've just noted the great hand Furtune has played in his successes and I stand by this.

At any rate, none of this matters come July, when Nibali will be up against much fiercer foes. May the best man win.
He was the strongest, but it was not a huge difference, which is why he hadn't won a stage, and which is why he had to try and follow Nibali and Chaves rather than stick with a larger group and protect his lead with a strong final climb. Nibali did as much damage to Chaves and Piti in two days as Kruisjwijk accomplished prior to that. I really don't think the weak competition means the same at the Giro as it would at the Tour.
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
 
Re:

Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]

I like watching Nibali when he's on it but enough of the platitudes about his "cool head" and "mentality". A lot of other times during races his tactics are crap and he acts like a whiny hot-head when things don't go his way.
 
The thing is, Kruijswijk was clearly not trying to put more time on anyone anymore after the MTT, because he thought he had enough of a time gap. That's another lesson he learned - you need to take time whenever you can, because you never know.

Nibali is a cheater, in many ways. But he clearly also has that "mentality" you dismiss as a platitude.
 
Re: Re:

Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]
Froome :p
 
Re: Re:

Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]
Well there is Chris Froome (2010 Giro), many consider him a champion......
 
Re: Re:

Carols said:
Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]
Well there is Chris Froome (2010 Giro), many consider him a champion......
He wasn't a champion at that time like Nibali was during his Vuelta exploits.
 

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