Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Jan 4, 2012
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Re: Nibali discussion thread

Even under pressure on a difficult descent, the chances of Kruijswijk crashing were low-undeniably increased by circumstances and his possible mental uncertainty, but undeniably low nonetheless. The fact that he did crash was thus unlucky for him and lucky for Nibali. Nibali's performances following the crash were heroic, and he probably increased the chance of at the crash by his earlier riding, but he was undeniably lucky. Nibali doesn't become a champion through this piece of luck, he becomes a champion (or not depending on your view) according to the quality of his riding before and after the crash-whether that lands him with 1st place or 10th
 
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Savant12 said:
Carols said:
Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]
Well there is Chris Froome (2010 Giro), many consider him a champion......
He wasn't a champion at that time like Nibali was during his Vuelta exploits.
So it doesn't count???? ROTFL
 
Jan 4, 2012
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Carols said:
Savant12 said:
Carols said:
Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]
Well there is Chris Froome (2010 Giro), many consider him a champion......
He wasn't a champion at that time like Nibali was during his Vuelta exploits.
So it doesn't count???? ROTFL
Is the use of ROTFL necessary?
Surely the argument that people change over time, someone can be something at one time and something else at another time, in 2010 Froome's character, physicality and race records were such that he couldn't be considered a champion then whereas now his race records, physicality and character are such that he can be considered a champion and thus when he was expelled he wasn't a champion has at least enough merit to warrant a serious response-even if the argument is easily refutable
 
5 quote limit exceeded:

Is the use of ROTFL necessary?
Surely the argument that people change over time, someone can be something at one time and something else at another time, in 2010 Froome's character, physicality and race records were such that he couldn't be considered a champion then whereas now his race records, physicality and character are such that he can be considered a champion and thus when he was expelled he wasn't a champion has at least enough merit to warrant a serious response-even if the argument is easily refutable[/quote]

Yeah his illegal feed and blaming it on Porte after he was a champion proves his mind set changed.....Anyway I'm done with this. This is the Nibali thread and we are Way OFf Track.

Nibali should indeed be ashamed for his behavior in the Vuelta. That doesn't change his exploits in this Giro, where he performed like a the champion he is!
 
Re: Re:

Carols said:
Savant12 said:
Carols said:
Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]
Well there is Chris Froome (2010 Giro), many consider him a champion......
He wasn't a champion at that time like Nibali was during his Vuelta exploits.
So it doesn't count???? ROTFL
Perhaps, I should have clarified the question with "established champion". Froome wasn't at that time; he had no experience riding for the GC in a major tour. Nibali had by the time of the 2015 Vuelta already won the Vuelta, Giro and Tour; an impressive achievement.

My issue was the statement "That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion." I felt that Kruijswijk was unfairly criticised for lacking a "cool head and mentality" whereas, a true champion like Nibali has never lost his cool or mentality so erroneously or stupidly. Right?
 
Jan 4, 2012
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Pippo_San said:
Blah blah blah. 4 times GT and also monument winner.

It was a nice discussion but you know. FACTS.
Silly post. Each result must be looked at in context to determine it's true meaning both individually and as a part of the whole palmares.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

The Principal Sheep said:
rhubroma said:
Kruisjwijk up until the fatal moment, was the strongest guy in the mountains in the race. This is undeniable. Even if he had a natural drop in performance and Nibali rode as he did, it is still highly unlikely that, without the crash, the Sicilian would have taken 4:43 back from the Dutchman.

Nibili pulled off a sensational comback, nobody denies that. However, it is equally undeniable that he was greatly assissted by the leader's misfortune and by the physical limits of a Chavez, who is hardly a champion at this stage in his career. No "hating" here, but we really shouldn't be intellectually dishonest by saying Nibali did it all on his own legs. I mean this by when a crash (it doesn't matter if on the flat, uphill, downhill) seriously compromises the outcome of the race. That would be the same as saying Nibali beat Contador and Froome at the 14 Tour exclusively on his own legs, which is BS. For that is not the case and this should be considered when assessing the real athletic merits of his achievements.

I've just noted the great hand Furtune has played in his successes and I stand by this.

At any rate, none of this matters come July, when Nibali will be up against much fiercer foes. May the best man win.
Had Kruijswijk not have been put under such pressure by Nibali and Chaves he would likely have remained in pink however before and after his crash Nibali was doing all he could to fight and reclaim lost ground from earlier in the giro, any fortune a rider gets on his way to winning a grand tour and any help recieved by others along the way is nothing compared to the work and suffering they've had to endure to make it so, as such Chaves would have been a worthy winner and not a lucky one just as Nibali is a worthy victor.


rhubroma said:
At any rate, none of this matters come July, when Nibali will be up against much fiercer foes. May the best man win.
"None of this matters come July" what sort of 'only le tour matters' thinking is this? the tour doesn't matter when discussing the merits of a Giro victory, is this some weak attempt come July to show how weak Nibali is whilst forgetting the Giro exists?
In the first instance, a crash isn't like being dropped on the descent (which undoubtedly in the overall economy of the course, would have been SK's best option and probably would have saved him the title). He didn't "have to go down", because of Nibali's pace, but "choose to go down" trying to follow. If Nibali had just dropped SK and then went on to still win, then it could be said he did so entirely on his own legs. As it stands his victory was helped by Lady Luck. "Luck" as the opportunity he created, true, but it still doesn't show the real strength or weakness of the players in contention. One was simply physically compromised and the winner who capitalizes on his rival's impairment, with however much bravura, isn't the same winner as if he had dominated a healthy opponent.

Let's remember that Kruijswijk was 4:43 ahead of Nibali before the crash. Consequently anyone that denies that the Dutchman was the strongest in the mountains till that point, simply negates an unequivocal reality. He dropped Nibali on the queen stage in the dolomites, finishing with the stage winner Chaves. He dominated both Chaves and even more so Nibali in the MTT. He was never dropped by anyone else on a previous mountain stage. He was ahead of Chavez by over 2 minutes and by Nibali and Valverde by over 4 minutes. It is impossible to state he wasn't the dominant rider up till that point.

Practically the only thing that could have unseated him was a crash, which is what happened. So Nibali was very lucky. Without the crash the Giro probably wouldn't have been his.

Now in regards to "only the Tour" blah, blah, blah, blah. Hey I've lived in Italy for over 20 years, so you've picked the wrong target for such an accusation. To the contrary the Giro is to be appreciated for its own merits, independent of the status of the Tour, which is though undeniably the biggest race on the calendar. That's why I said none of this debate matters come July, for the simple reason that at the Tour every contender departs from a tabula rasa. If a guy wins the Giro but looses the Tour, everybody is talking about the guy who won the Tour. If a guy doesn't ride the Giro (or looses it as has happened), but wins the Tour, everyone is talking about the guy who won the Tour. Not surprisingly all the best GT racers in the world are there to fight for cycling's biggest crown. As beautiful as the Giro is, this isn't the case with the Italian GT.

And nobody said Nibali was "weak," or that winning the Giro isn't a huge achievment. I don't know where you gathered I was inferring that from. I find the Giro parcours and general interpretation of how they are raced to be far superior to those of the Tour. The Giro is still primarily about cycling, whereas the Tour is about the prestige and colossal enterpise of the race (with the obvious significance this has for the cyclist who wins it). If anything consequently mine shows real respect for the dignity of the Giro and its place in cycling, in simply poining out it's a shame that the winner's outcome was greatly enhanced by the crash of the guy that had dominated him and the race till that point.

Otherwise if all we care about is that Nibali won the Giro and not how he won it, then we might as well have rooted for SK to go down while in such a commanding lead.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

Bye-Bye (good riddance IMO) Vino :D

Nibali and his agents Alex and Jonny Carera met with Darkan Mangeldiev, the head of the Astana team project and the Kazakhstan Cycling Federation after the Giro d’Italia ended in Turin on Sunday. However, it seems this was more to celebrate yet another Grand Tour victory for Astana and agree that Nibali will ride the Tour de France as vital preparation for the Rio Olympic road race, rather than target overall victory. Nibali is ready to ride in support of Fabio Aru at the Tour de France in exchange for the Sardinian’s support at the Olympics and an amicable goodbye.

Astana manager Alexander Vinokourov told Cyclingnews he was still hopeful that Nibali could decide to stay at Astana, but it seems that not even a substantial increase in Astana’s offer will stop Nibali from opting to move on and becoming the absolute team leader at the Bahrain Cycling Team.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

Tonton said:
Rollthedice said:
Wait a minute, '12 he was defeteated by an army of newly created sky bots led by the best stage racer of that particular year, in '15 he was whacked by two of the big boys while he whacked the fourth. He'll ride Le Tour to prepare for Rio and troll the other three and while at it, Aru also. He will never say he's there to win it but I expect at least an attack from no less than 20k to go and a stage win. No problem with his legacy.
I see your point, but disagree big time. If I'm a three GT winner, unless I'm very prepared, I don't go to France in July. I'm gonna get my *** handed to me. And I'll look stupid. Legacy.
Well, doesn't apply to Nibali since he's a 4 time GT winnner :D

But:
1) So Contador shouldn't have gone to the TdF last year? Legacy? It was to be expected that he would suffer after the Giro. BS.
2) He's not going to go there for the win. Off course he'll have his small hopes that his form is there, that he can somehow compete, but he pretty much knows that it's only a dream. And not even his goal. His goal is Rio. If the course is as hard as they say he definetly has his chance. He goes there to a) prepare for Rio by riding b) see if he can win a stage c) help Aru if it can't be avoided... So arriving in Paris 5th or 15th or 25th or whatever won't bother him.
3) Even if there was no Rio Olympics and he actually went there with the goal of doing the double, failure wouldn't harm his legacy in the least. At the latest after Contador 15 everybody is realizing how difficult the double is. Not impossible, but extremely difficult. So, let's imagine people in 20 years, Nibali won 4 GTs (assuming he won't win any anymore), but he wasn't that good, he tried the double in 2016 but failed!!!!!!!!! Yeah, sounds likely.

4) Legacy? Who cares anyway. Athletes care about wins, money, but not all that much legacy. Win now, and you can't win if you don't try. Unless he's in top shape (hard to say anyway 10 days or so before the Tour starts...) he shouldn't start, the risk of losing too big. Is like saying Nibali should have given up before the TT, intestinal problems, so not in top shape, not winning the Giro hurts his legacy, better give up! Right.


Ah, and of course Nibali wasn't destroyed in 2012. After his pretty weak 2011 for 2012 he was clearly underrated in the non-italian media before the race. Gesink etc rated higher. In the end he was the ONLY one that wasn't destroyed by Sky, he was the only one that could keep up in the mountains, with 1 exception the last stage in the pyrenees. Destroyed in the TT, yes. Destroyed in the Tour, no. 15? Mmh, unfortunately Nibali doesn't qualify for the Contador rule: "Froome never beat Contador when C. was in top shape". So 2013 and 2015 can be dismissed immediately... too bad we can't use that for Nibali 2015. But destroyed still the wrong word. He was clearly beaten, wasn't a factor. Yes.
 
Generally:

Nibali didn't attack Kruijswijk in the descent. Kruijswijk just simply made a mistake. If anything the mistake came because he had to suffer in the climb, he himself said he had problems at the top of the Agnel. Lack of lucidity, not even taking a raincoat to keep warm, mistimed a corner. Nibali didn't "attack" in the downhill. Wasn't taking it easy for sure, but unless you're Leonardo Sierra everybody could be expected to follow Nibali there. If we really have to credit Nibali with "forcing" the mistake, then it's the last kms of the climb that made K. do the mistake. But no need to credit Nibali with that really.

Would he have won without Kruijswijk's crash? Unlikely. Kruijswijk weakening a bit wasn't out of the question. After all he did weaken a bit toward the end last year too. Verbania Hesjedal could follow Contador, Kruijswijk couldn't. Sestriere in the front group he turned out to be the weakest at the end too. His best week was the end of the second week last year, very possible he would have weakened a bit this time too. Lose 30" or 50" to Risoul? Not impossible. Especially if you remember that Kruijswijk suffered on the top of the Agnel, did the downhill without putting enough stuff on. Then the next stage would have probably been ridden differently by Astana, isolating Kruijswijk on the Vars, sending not only Kangert but Fuglsang and or Scarponi up front too. Still very unlikely that Nibali would have managed to win this. Possible that Kruijswijk never would have been dropped either of course, we'll never know.
In the end Nibali managed to win, a spectacular win, but not a fully convincing one. For a guy with his talent he underperformed again. And for a guy with his immense talent he still hasn't enough GT wins, should be at 6 or so now. Let's hope he stops underperforming sooner or later.
 
And he should ride Flanders and Liège trying to go for the win off course. If Contador, Froome etc don't try, it's ok, they don't have the talent for that. Nibali has, the failure to even try in Flanders, and the failure to really try in Liège lately are the 2 biggest mistakes of his career so far. Plus the lack of double attempt.
 
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The fridge in the blue trees said:
And he should ride Flanders and Liège trying to go for the win off course. If Contador, Froome etc don't try, it's ok, they don't have the talent for that. Nibali has, the failure to even try in Flanders, and the failure to really try in Liège lately are the 2 biggest mistakes of his career so far. Plus the lack of double attempt.
At least he's tried a monument lately...and won.
 
Mar 13, 2015
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The fridge in the blue trees said:
And he should ride Flanders and Liège trying to go for the win off course. If Contador, Froome etc don't try, it's ok, they don't have the talent for that. Nibali has, the failure to even try in Flanders, and the failure to really try in Liège lately are the 2 biggest mistakes of his career so far. Plus the lack of double attempt.
Didn't try in Liege?! Did you watched last 4-5 editions?
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]

I like watching Nibali when he's on it but enough of the platitudes about his "cool head" and "mentality". A lot of other times during races his tactics are crap and he acts like a whiny hot-head when things don't go his way.
He certainly isn't a fair-play champion, but he has that winner mentality, attacking mind. He makes mistakes alright, but only as a consequence of his offensive ride. Even that time when he was expelled from Vuelta, he made that mistake because he wanted to win, because he wanted to go back to peloton as soon as possible, because he knew his race would be pretty much over if he didn't do such a thing. And I think it wasn't his first time to do so (remember Firenze), other riders are also using this "tactics" (see Demare at MSR).

Difference between his mistakes and Kruijswijk mistake is that the latter made mistake out of panic, out of fear, out of lack of experience, absence of champions will and hunger. Becoming a champion is a process you know, you don't become one in 20 days. Guy won ONE race in his entire professional career for Christ's sake! He needs to work on that matter. He's a good rider, very good, and he could become really great. But he needs to learn how to become a champion, he don't have someone like that in his close environment. It's a process, as I said earlier, it takes time.
 
For all we know, Nibali just wanted a sticky bottle, he didn't have his foot on the speeder, and what was he supposed to do when the car accelerated? Could be dangerous if he just let go. I definitely think the driver is more to blame than Nibali.
 
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Netserk said:
For all we know, Nibali just wanted a sticky bottle, he didn't have his foot on the speeder, and what was he supposed to do when the car accelerated? Could be dangerous if he just let go. I definitely think the driver is more to blame than Nibali.
Shefer was indeed a bit too enthusiastic.
 

Hai

May 30, 2016
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Mr.White said:
Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]

I like watching Nibali when he's on it but enough of the platitudes about his "cool head" and "mentality". A lot of other times during races his tactics are crap and he acts like a whiny hot-head when things don't go his way.
He certainly isn't a fair-play champion, but he has that winner mentality, attacking mind. He makes mistakes alright, but only as a consequence of his offensive ride. Even that time when he was expelled from Vuelta, he made that mistake because he wanted to win, because he wanted to go back to peloton as soon as possible, because he knew his race would be pretty much over if he didn't do such a thing. And I think it wasn't his first time to do so (remember Firenze), other riders are also using this "tactics" (see Demare at MSR).

Difference between his mistakes and Kruijswijk mistake is that the latter made mistake out of panic, out of fear, out of lack of experience, absence of champions will and hunger. Becoming a champion is a process you know, you don't become one in 20 days. Guy won ONE race in his entire professional career for Christ's sake! He needs to work on that matter. He's a good rider, very good, and he could become really great. But he needs to learn how to become a champion, he don't have someone like that in his close environment. It's a process, as I said earlier, it takes time.
Come on, if anyone was dominant this Giro, it would have been Kruijswijk. Did you just start watching after his crash? The reason he lost the giro was because he made ONE mistake. He did not fear anyone. Eventing after the crash was a worse case scenario which also Valverde and nibali wouldn't have survived. Is buying Pirazzi equal to champions will and hunger btw?
 
Re: Re:

Hai said:
Mr.White said:
Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]

I like watching Nibali when he's on it but enough of the platitudes about his "cool head" and "mentality". A lot of other times during races his tactics are crap and he acts like a whiny hot-head when things don't go his way.
He certainly isn't a fair-play champion, but he has that winner mentality, attacking mind. He makes mistakes alright, but only as a consequence of his offensive ride. Even that time when he was expelled from Vuelta, he made that mistake because he wanted to win, because he wanted to go back to peloton as soon as possible, because he knew his race would be pretty much over if he didn't do such a thing. And I think it wasn't his first time to do so (remember Firenze), other riders are also using this "tactics" (see Demare at MSR).

Difference between his mistakes and Kruijswijk mistake is that the latter made mistake out of panic, out of fear, out of lack of experience, absence of champions will and hunger. Becoming a champion is a process you know, you don't become one in 20 days. Guy won ONE race in his entire professional career for Christ's sake! He needs to work on that matter. He's a good rider, very good, and he could become really great. But he needs to learn how to become a champion, he don't have someone like that in his close environment. It's a process, as I said earlier, it takes time.
Come on, if anyone was dominant this Giro, it would have been Kruijswijk. Did you just start watching after his crash? The reason he lost the giro was because he made ONE mistake. He did not fear anyone. Eventing after the crash was a worse case scenario which also Valverde and nibali wouldn't have survived. Is buying Pirazzi equal to champions will and hunger btw?
No one was dominant in this Giro. That's what made it great to watch. Kruijswijk was the most consistent for a while, but in the end it is what it is. I believe he crashed because he was trying to keep up with Nibbes and Chaves and couldn't. If Nibbes had crashed he wouldn't have lost as much time imo. He's more used to the pressure.
 
Re: Re:

Mr.White said:
Savant12 said:
Mr.White said:
Kruijswijk was not the strongest, but most consistent climber in the race till' stage 19. He was not dominant in any of the stages, but he was among top 3 in many. Others had bad days, he didn't. Until that 19th stage. And then came disaster. He showed weakness, both physically and mentally. That's why he is not the champion Nibali is. He completely blew it. If that was Nibali on his place, and fell like that, or Valverde, I guarantee their loss wouldn't be like Kriujswijk's on that stage. Not even close. That's where experience comes to the fore, cool head and mentality of a champion. Many here says Nibali was lucky, and Kruijswijk unlucky, I don't agree. That was simply bad skill on the descent, and more importantly bad reaction after that.
How many champions have been expelled from a major tour for blatant cheating? [doping not included]

I like watching Nibali when he's on it but enough of the platitudes about his "cool head" and "mentality". A lot of other times during races his tactics are crap and he acts like a whiny hot-head when things don't go his way.
He certainly isn't a fair-play champion, but he has that winner mentality, attacking mind. He makes mistakes alright, but only as a consequence of his offensive ride. Even that time when he was expelled from Vuelta, he made that mistake because he wanted to win, because he wanted to go back to peloton as soon as possible, because he knew his race would be pretty much over if he didn't do such a thing. And I think it wasn't his first time to do so (remember Firenze), other riders are also using this "tactics" (see Demare at MSR).

Difference between his mistakes and Kruijswijk mistake is that the latter made mistake out of panic, out of fear, out of lack of experience, absence of champions will and hunger. Becoming a champion is a process you know, you don't become one in 20 days. Guy won ONE race in his entire professional career for Christ's sake! He needs to work on that matter. He's a good rider, very good, and he could become really great. But he needs to learn how to become a champion, he don't have someone like that in his close environment. It's a process, as I said earlier, it takes time.
IIRC Nibali 'just' drafted a car at Firenze after he crashed. He still wasted a lot of energy, though, and cost him the race.

Kruijswijk is growing. I hope for him it isn't a one time thing, but I see him winning a GT very soon, in the next couple of years. I reckon he has a winning mentality, he showed it at the Giro, and while his bit may not be a strong as Lo Squalo's, not many are. He just needs that little bit extra. Experience at the top, IMO, could well do the trick. Nibali has that.

The only thing I really want from Nibali now on is a Liege, a WC (Innsbruck is a shout if he is still at the top of his game), Olympic medal and another GT somewhere. I reckon 3 of those are realistic, the WC is hard and Liege needs him to be peaking but Olympic medal and GT should happen. Another Lombardia and if Le Manie returns Milano Sanremo wouldn't be bad either. And let's throw in a rainy Paris - Roubaix top 10 while we're at it too. If he gets all of those above then he will be a legend of the sport. Milano Sanremo is a bit of a stretch, though, I admit.
 

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