Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Astana and Nibali didn't really go separate ways as friend though.
Working together could be in common interest, so that might end up being not so important.
But does Lopez feels like risking it all? Cause till now he mostly tried at the very end of the stage.
He is still very young, even being a such a talent, completely blowing out is not such a remote possibility.

Helping Nibali to win the race is a common interest? Quite a strange approach.

Helping Nibs would be helping Astana to podium this Vuelta. Don't think they really fancy their chance to win the whole ***

 

[bob.a.feet]

Re: Re:

Nibali isn't the guy who's really diplomatic (that seems to be Aru's thing) the thing with Contador probably just happened in the heat of the moment and after calming down a bit it was no longer a big deal for him.

I agree.
Just seen the video and he looked totally relaxed. He confirmed that he had looked for some help from Alberto, then added that when everyone is close to his limit, that's going to be difficult.

This. Everyone is so high level, that it is impossible to destroy the field alone. Has been already couple of years.

Nibs is doing fairly well for a guy who has been doomed to be fading star for last 2 years.

People only say Nibali's fading because he's old. This year Nibali has been one of the best GT riders, behind only Froome and maybe Dumoulin

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

Nibali isn't the guy who's really diplomatic (that seems to be Aru's thing) the thing with Contador probably just happened in the heat of the moment and after calming down a bit it was no longer a big deal for him.

I agree.
Just seen the video and he looked totally relaxed. He confirmed that he had looked for some help from Alberto, then added that when everyone is close to his limit, that's going to be difficult.

This. Everyone is so high level, that it is impossible to destroy the field alone. Has been already couple of years.

Nibs is doing fairly well for a guy who has been doomed to be fading star for last 2 years.

People only say Nibali's fading because he's old. This year Nibali has been one of the best GT riders, behind only Froome and maybe Dumoulin

He is the same age as Froome.

20/05/85 vs 14/11/84

6 months between the two

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Nibali isn't the guy who's really diplomatic (that seems to be Aru's thing) the thing with Contador probably just happened in the heat of the moment and after calming down a bit it was no longer a big deal for him.

I agree.
Just seen the video and he looked totally relaxed. He confirmed that he had looked for some help from Alberto, then added that when everyone is close to his limit, that's going to be difficult.

This. Everyone is so high level, that it is impossible to destroy the field alone. Has been already couple of years.

Nibs is doing fairly well for a guy who has been doomed to be fading star for last 2 years.

People only say Nibali's fading because he's old. This year Nibali has been one of the best GT riders, behind only Froome and maybe Dumoulin

He is the same age as Froome.

20/05/85 vs 14/11/84

6 months between the two

Nibali has been a gt rider for a bit longer, he clearly has more miles on the clock.

 

[bob.a.feet]

Re: Re:

Nibali isn't the guy who's really diplomatic (that seems to be Aru's thing) the thing with Contador probably just happened in the heat of the moment and after calming down a bit it was no longer a big deal for him.

I agree.
Just seen the video and he looked totally relaxed. He confirmed that he had looked for some help from Alberto, then added that when everyone is close to his limit, that's going to be difficult.

This. Everyone is so high level, that it is impossible to destroy the field alone. Has been already couple of years.

Nibs is doing fairly well for a guy who has been doomed to be fading star for last 2 years.

People only say Nibali's fading because he's old. This year Nibali has been one of the best GT riders, behind only Froome and maybe Dumoulin

He is the same age as Froome.

20/05/85 vs 14/11/84

6 months between the two

If anything Froome is fading more than Nibali. Nibali was a top 3 GT rider for most of his career and still is, while Froome is less dominant in the Tour as he has been in previous years, although not by much. In reality though, neither rider is really fading.

 

[Rollthedice]

It is obvious Froome needs to be isolated, his team can control any situation. But how? Today, several teams tried to up the pace, the most ridiculous outcome being Katusha droping all their team while Froome had 6 guys left in a group of 19. I can only hope this will happen again tomorrow with a better outcome though.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

Great Nibali! He's looking like the kind of rider who could thrive if GTs had 4 weeks.

I don't know why you say that. Nowadays, nibali can't even mantain a superb level during 3 weeks like he did in the past (2014 tour, 2013 giro) so he normally starts a gt a little bit undercooked because he knows that he can't be superb through the whole race. I don't find any evidence that nibali would be stronger than froome in a fourth week. In this vuelta it is normal that froome shows more signs of fatigue because he finished the tour 6 weeks ago and nibali finished the giro 3 months ago. Nibali's recovery is very good but isn't nothing out of this world. I still remember the way he cracked in the whole 2011 vuelta after a insanely hard giro and he had 2 and half months to recover from that giro.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Great Nibali! He's looking like the kind of rider who could thrive if GTs had 4 weeks.

I don't know why you say that. Nowadays, nibali can't even mantain a superb level during 3 weeks like he did in the past (2014 tour, 2013 giro) so he normally starts a gt a little bit undercooked because he knows that he can't be superb through the whole race. I don't find any evidence that nibali would be stronger than froome in a fourth week. In this vuelta it is normal that froome shows more signs of fatigue because he finished the tour 6 weeks ago and nibali finished the giro 3 months ago. Nibali's recovery is very good but isn't nothing out of this world. I still remember the way he cracked in the whole 2011 vuelta after a insanely hard giro and he had 2 and half months to recover from that giro.

He is a bit different rider than 2011. So is Contador. So is Froome. Try find better examples. Nibs is not exactly famous for fading in 3rd week of GT.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Great Nibali! He's looking like the kind of rider who could thrive if GTs had 4 weeks.

I don't know why you say that. Nowadays, nibali can't even mantain a superb level during 3 weeks like he did in the past (2014 tour, 2013 giro) so he normally starts a gt a little bit undercooked because he knows that he can't be superb through the whole race. I don't find any evidence that nibali would be stronger than froome in a fourth week. In this vuelta it is normal that froome shows more signs of fatigue because he finished the tour 6 weeks ago and nibali finished the giro 3 months ago. Nibali's recovery is very good but isn't nothing out of this world. I still remember the way he cracked in the whole 2011 vuelta after a insanely hard giro and he had 2 and half months to recover from that giro.

Curiously, you know why I wrote what I wrote, despite saying you didn't know. :lol:
Either way, I didn't state that Nibali would be stronger than Froome, only that he's looking more and more the kind of rider who steadily improves his level throughout a GT, while others usually fade, like you tend to say 3 times a day about a Froome.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

Great Nibali! He's looking like the kind of rider who could thrive if GTs had 4 weeks.

I don't know why you say that. Nowadays, nibali can't even mantain a superb level during 3 weeks like he did in the past (2014 tour, 2013 giro) so he normally starts a gt a little bit undercooked because he knows that he can't be superb through the whole race. I don't find any evidence that nibali would be stronger than froome in a fourth week. In this vuelta it is normal that froome shows more signs of fatigue because he finished the tour 6 weeks ago and nibali finished the giro 3 months ago. Nibali's recovery is very good but isn't nothing out of this world. I still remember the way he cracked in the whole 2011 vuelta after a insanely hard giro and he had 2 and half months to recover from that giro.

Curiously, you know why I wrote what I wrote, despite saying you didn't know. :lol:
Either way, I didn't state that Nibali would be stronger than Froome, only that he's looking more and more the kind of rider who steadily improves his level throughout a GT, while others usually fade, like you tend to say 3 times a day about a Froome.

But what i wanted to say is that (in normal circunstances) froome doesn't fade in the third week and mantain a very good level to not being challenged by others who nornally get stronger in the final week (nibali).

 

[skippo12]

Not possible to beat Sky. He is isolated against 5 Skyborgs and they are marking every move he makes. Lopez, Contador and Zakarin are a allowed to get away but as soon as he tries they chase him with everything they have.

 

[Eclipse]

It was a bad day. Terrible final climb in general (organisers really dropped the ball with the design imo) and his attempt to make something happen cost him yesterdays time back at the end. Needed at least something

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

If he waited until the last km he would've taken probably 10 seocnds like Zakarin.

He rode ahead of Sky for at least 1/2km with 15 seconds. But that cost him in the end. Sky watt train cannot be beaten.

 

[huge]

Re:

If he waited until the last km he would've taken probably 10 seocnds like Zakarin.

True. But he had to try. To see if Froome was in any difficulties.

At this point gaining 10 secs or losing 6, as it happened at the end, doesn't make much of a difference for him.

 

[Climbing]

Re: Re:

If he waited until the last km he would've taken probably 10 seocnds like Zakarin.

True. But he had to try. To see if Froome was in any difficulties.

At this point gaining 10 secs or losing 6, as it happened at the end, doesn't make much of a difference for him.

Totally agree, he had to try.
Could have gone with Lopez and Contador, but probably Sky wouldn't have left so much space in that case.
Still a long way to go, and with Lopez going so strong, there will be opportunity.
Needs better legs though.

 

[huge]

The problem is that in the end today turned out to be a stupid stage profile with that super long final climb, but shallow gradients which meant that anyone riding in a group had a massive advantage on any rider attacking solo.

They basically were all together up to 1k to go. And this was supposed to be the Queen stage. Meh!

As I said before, Nibali had to try. The mistake he did, in my opinion, was that he kept pushing for too long.
As soon as he realised that there was no way he could open a real gap, he should have eased up. Far earlier than he did.

 

[Brullnux]

Well, I guess second isn't that bad

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

If he waited until the last km he would've taken probably 10 seocnds like Zakarin.

True. But he had to try. To see if Froome was in any difficulties.

At this point gaining 10 secs or losing 6, as it happened at the end, doesn't make much of a difference for him.

He attacked at a point when Nieve and Poels have not done a single turn on the front.

While it's true that he had to try something, attacking at that point always seemed a bit optimistic.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

If he waited until the last km he would've taken probably 10 seocnds like Zakarin.

True. But he had to try. To see if Froome was in any difficulties.

At this point gaining 10 secs or losing 6, as it happened at the end, doesn't make much of a difference for him.

He attacked at a point when Nieve and Poels have not done a single turn on the front.

While it's true that he had to try something, attacking at that point always seemed a bit optimistic.

But attacking at the final kilometer is not gonna win him the vuelta. The only chance he has is to take a huge chunk of time when Froome has a weakness, but if he doesn't attack he will never find out if Froome maybe even had one. Who knows if Froome would have won the tdf if Bardet, Uran,... had attacked on the Peyresurde after Froome went offroad. He had a bad day but since nobody tried to distance him before the last 500 meters they only gained a bit more than 10 seconds.

The point is, there are only so few chances remaining to gain the time he needs that attacking on the last kilometer plays even more into Sky's hands than at least trying big attacks.

 

[May0maniac]

I agree and it's Nibali we're talking about, not Purito who had an insane kick when he attacked with 1km to go, that kind of riding doesn't really suit him.

 

[Red Rick]

Nibali missed his chance on the Monachil. If he had let Contador and MAL get 15s, then closed the gap while dropping Sky, then we'd have had a real race on our hands.

 

[SafeBet]

Terrible tactics today. Either go with Lopez and Contador to see how many Sky doms survive or wait for the final like Zakarin. Those 6 seconds are probably meaningless but they are not good for the morale.

 

[Forever The Best]

He should have gone on Monachil imo.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Nibali missed his chance on the Monachil. If he had let Contador and MAL get 15s, then closed the gap while dropping Sky, then we'd have had a real race on our hands.

Please don't write about things like that. I don't want to accept that Froome could have lost a lot of time today, because that makes the fact that he didn't lose time hurt even more

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Nibali missed his chance on the Monachil. If he had let Contador and MAL get 15s, then closed the gap while dropping Sky, then we'd have had a real race on our hands.

Sky had famous climber Puccio in front, they didn't care one bit about a certain superman and a soon-to-retire Contador. If Nibali would've attacked as you say, Moscon, Nieve and Poels would've brought back the three desperados with about 15-20k to go. There was impossible to gain something today.