Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Re: Re:

roundabout said:
SafeBet said:
Red Rick said:
SafeBet said:
You have to wonder if he's ever going to be back at his level. I'm starting to worry he won't.
Way too freaking premature.
Let's be honest: he was on the bike a week after the crash, he never gained weight and the base was there. A GT and two whole months of training later he still looks like the 50th best climber of the peloton. You will agree it's pretty worrying.

He crashed on the 19th, had surgery on the 31st of July and probably started riding on the road about a week after, so he missed around 3 weeks
I stand corrected then.
Still, I'm sincerely worried about him getting back to his previous level.
 
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
roundabout said:
SafeBet said:
Red Rick said:
SafeBet said:
You have to wonder if he's ever going to be back at his level. I'm starting to worry he won't.
Way too freaking premature.
Let's be honest: he was on the bike a week after the crash, he never gained weight and the base was there. A GT and two whole months of training later he still looks like the 50th best climber of the peloton. You will agree it's pretty worrying.

He crashed on the 19th, had surgery on the 31st of July and probably started riding on the road about a week after, so he missed around 3 weeks
I stand corrected then.
Still, I'm sincerely worried about him getting back to his previous level.
There's still hope. Just recall how Valverde ended last season.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
46&twoWheels said:
at this point I'm starting to believe that the Vuelta was basically a long bland sub-maximal training. A "21 days walk in the park"
I think he was too bad going into the Vuelta and he was it was too hard to really improve from it

yep. that Injury made him go back to "january form". His optimal weight is probably the only reason that allowed him to still be among the best 40-50 riders today
 
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Climbing said:
Not for the World though, even if after all the course wasn't really favorable tbh.
Of course he would have attacked on the penultimate climb, but wasn't easy at all to get away there.
What surprised me was that Valgren still finished in the 2nd group.

Attacking on the penultimate climb and winning was possible.
 
Guy needs month and months to reach a respectable level. Has been the case since 2014, but still a surprise how horrible he was today. Still say he is an overachiever - injuries are tricky, but I think most riders would have reached a much higher level if they were in Nibali's shoes.
 
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Valv.Piti said:
Guy needs month and months to reach a respectable level. Has been the case since 2014, but still a surprise how horrible he was today. Still say he is an overachiever - injuries are tricky, but I think most riders would have reached a much higher level if they were in Nibali's shoes.
..

I mean..

...

huh

..

u wot m8
 
Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Guy needs month and months to reach a respectable level. Has been the case since 2014, but still a surprise how horrible he was today. Still say he is an overachiever - injuries are tricky, but I think most riders would have reached a much higher level if they were in Nibali's shoes.

Piti, enjoy Valv's win. I'm too depressed to analyze what happened between the crime of Huez and today. We hoped but today was inevitable.
 
Re:

Valv.Piti said:
What dont you understand? For some reason Nibali needs an extreme amount of time to improve his shape considerably compared to the other elite cyclists in the peloton.
Let's just say that we're dealing with incomplete information and that I highly disagree with the cognitive leaps that you're making.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Valv.Piti said:
What dont you understand? For some reason Nibali needs an extreme amount of time to improve his shape considerably compared to the other elite cyclists in the peloton.
Let's just say that we're dealing with incomplete information and that I highly disagree with the cognitive leaps that you're making.
Its hard to ignore when we have seen that exact trend unfold the last 5 years, dont you think?
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Red Rick said:
Valv.Piti said:
What dont you understand? For some reason Nibali needs an extreme amount of time to improve his shape considerably compared to the other elite cyclists in the peloton.
Let's just say that we're dealing with incomplete information and that I highly disagree with the cognitive leaps that you're making.
Its hard to ignore when we have seen that exact trend unfold the last 5 years, dont you think?
I'm talking about the assumption that we judge riders by how long it takes to get in shape. I'm more inclined to judge a riders potential by what they do when they get there.
 
I can see some improvements comparing to the end of the Vuelta, today the field was a lot deeper so finishing 49th here it's better than 48th or 58th in the final weekend of the Vuelta.
Anyway, as I already said here some weeks ago, I don't think is a problem of shape but it's the climbing, on the flat he was pretty good already in the first week of the Vuelta, we should remember that they injected a "cement" on his vertebra so he didn't have anymore the natural flexibility of the spine, maybe that affect him when he goes uphill.
 
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Climbing said:
Is necessary to get a dig at Nibali?
Can't you enjoy Valverde win without it?
After all most Nibali fans are reasonably happy with Valverde finally getting the gold, well at least I am.
Im sorry if you interpreted that as a dig at him. What I meant is he probably shouldn't have won a race like San Remo, but on the other hand should have won Liege. So maybe its a moot point. My point just was it has become extreme how much prep Nibali needs to reach peak shape and its incredibly unlucky that crashes have robbed him from potentially winning in Rio and Innsbruck, but on the other hand, he has been a bit lucky in regards to crashes in other GTs. At least they haven't affected him before.

It just sucks that we can't see the best against each other in great shape on even grounds, but that actually rarely happens in cycling when you really analyze it.
 
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Nirvana said:
I can see some improvements comparing to the end of the Vuelta, today the field was a lot deeper so finishing 49th here it's better than 48th or 58th in the final weekend of the Vuelta.
Anyway, as I already said here some weeks ago, I don't think is a problem of shape but it's the climbing, on the flat he was pretty good already in the first week of the Vuelta, we should remember that they injected a "cement" on his vertebra so he didn't have anymore the natural flexibility of the spine, maybe that affect him when he goes uphill.

Hopefully not, seems likely that he just didn't have the time to recover well after 3 weeks full break.
Plus no altitude.
 
Vuelta prep was the problem.

I think he needed to rush to get into a shape that enabled him to even start the Vuelta, so he didn't have much room to grow into the Vuelta and came out more tired than he should have.
 
Re:

Nirvana said:
I can see some improvements comparing to the end of the Vuelta, today the field was a lot deeper so finishing 49th here it's better than 48th or 58th in the final weekend of the Vuelta.
Anyway, as I already said here some weeks ago, I don't think is a problem of shape but it's the climbing, on the flat he was pretty good already in the first week of the Vuelta, we should remember that they injected a "cement" on his vertebra so he didn't have anymore the natural flexibility of the spine, maybe that affect him when he goes uphill.

Don't think so. Today he said he had a sudden "blackout" figuratively speaking. The lights went out and it was over. The surgery might have been a bad idea but he wanted to be in Innsbruck. Without it, no Vuelta, no WCRR. Hopefully it will not affect him in the long run. Remember at the beginning of the Vuelta he was questioning if he'll ever be the same again?
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Nirvana said:
I can see some improvements comparing to the end of the Vuelta, today the field was a lot deeper so finishing 49th here it's better than 48th or 58th in the final weekend of the Vuelta.
Anyway, as I already said here some weeks ago, I don't think is a problem of shape but it's the climbing, on the flat he was pretty good already in the first week of the Vuelta, we should remember that they injected a "cement" on his vertebra so he didn't have anymore the natural flexibility of the spine, maybe that affect him when he goes uphill.

Don't think so. Today he said he had a sudden "blackout" figuratively speaking. The lights went out and it was over. The surgery might have been a bad idea but he wanted to be in Innsbruck. Without it, no Vuelta, no WCRR. Hopefully it will not affect him in the long run. Remember at the beginning of the Vuelta he was questioning if he'll ever be the same again?
If the stiffer back only hampers him a little bit with aerodynamics it's not that big of a deal

If it hampers with muscle recruitment, it's a disaster.
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
Vuelta prep was the problem.

I think he needed to rush to get into a shape that enabled him to even start the Vuelta, so he didn't have much room to grow into the Vuelta and came out more tired than he should have.

Around 6-7 August he is for the first time on the bike and subsequently is "dropped by his father". 25th he starts the Vuelta.
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Red Rick said:
Vuelta prep was the problem.

I think he needed to rush to get into a shape that enabled him to even start the Vuelta, so he didn't have much room to grow into the Vuelta and came out more tired than he should have.

Around 6-7 August he is for the first time on the bike and subsequently is "dropped by his father". 25th he starts the Vuelta.
Yeah, that's definitely overreaching for the Vuelta.

Anyway, getting the racing in is hopefully helpful come 2019 :(
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Nirvana said:
I can see some improvements comparing to the end of the Vuelta, today the field was a lot deeper so finishing 49th here it's better than 48th or 58th in the final weekend of the Vuelta.
Anyway, as I already said here some weeks ago, I don't think is a problem of shape but it's the climbing, on the flat he was pretty good already in the first week of the Vuelta, we should remember that they injected a "cement" on his vertebra so he didn't have anymore the natural flexibility of the spine, maybe that affect him when he goes uphill.

Don't think so. Today he said he had a sudden "blackout" figuratively speaking. The lights went out and it was over. The surgery might have been a bad idea but he wanted to be in Innsbruck. Without it, no Vuelta, no WCRR. Hopefully it will not affect him in the long run. Remember at the beginning of the Vuelta he was questioning if he'll ever be the same again?
And we still don't have an answer to that question and probably we aren't going to have until at least next spring or more likely until Giro or Tour when he'll hit real mountains if he still has the idea of going to a full cobbles program next spring as he hinted after the Ronde.