Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Nirvana]

But Sanremo as we know is pretty recent, when with the original route they started to have group sprints they added Poggio, when happened again they added Cipressa, one time they even tried the longer Ponte di Merlo early in the race and for some years in early 00s they swapped the Turchino with Bric Berton, recently Zomegnan added Manie. So trying to change again the route to make it harder will be fully in line with the history of the race, setting the actual route in the stone isn't the right choice.
Anyway I talked about Pompeiana because was actually set to be included some years ago but there are a lot of potential changes with various levels of impact that could be made, I remember a couple of years ago I've seen a thread on the Italian forum where there were suggested dozens of different route changes. The good of Liguria is that you can leave the Aurelia in every moment an there are almost always the hills just behind the Riviera.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

But Sanremo as we know is pretty recent, when with the original route they started to have group sprints they added Poggio, when happened again they added Cipressa, one time they even tried the longer Ponte di Merlo early in the race and for some years in early 00s they swapped the Turchino with Bric Berton, recently Zomegnan added Manie. So trying to change again the route to make it harder will be fully in line with the history of the race, setting the actual route in the stone isn't the right choice.
Anyway I talked about Pompeiana because was actually set to be included some years ago but there are a lot of potential changes with various levels of impact that could be made, I remember a couple of years ago I've seen a thread on the Italian forum where there were suggested dozens of different route changes. The good of Liguria is that you can leave the Aurelia in every moment an there are almost always the hills just behind the Riviera.

Good points.

I guess that the question is how you define the problem.

Is it too many sprint finishes?
Or is it too little action before the Poggio?

I would agree that adding climbs earlier in the day would likely make the race a little more open.

 

[Gigs_98]

I definitely think MSR would benefit from a return of Le Maine. I know the last two editions went to attackers but some of the previous editions were dreadful and really even last year was horrible until Nibali attacked. Now I know MSR is supposed to be a slow buildup to a big showdown but nothing happening before the final 10 minutes is just taking this concept too far. With Le Manie you get some early movement which makes the race watchable from a bit further out but the finale is still centered around the final two climbs with the finale probably getting even more exciting than it would otherwise be.

 

[Red Rick]

Was it 2016 that people like GvA said they didn't attack cause it had been too easy all day?

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

But Sanremo as we know is pretty recent, when with the original route they started to have group sprints they added Poggio, when happened again they added Cipressa, one time they even tried the longer Ponte di Merlo early in the race and for some years in early 00s they swapped the Turchino with Bric Berton, recently Zomegnan added Manie. So trying to change again the route to make it harder will be fully in line with the history of the race, setting the actual route in the stone isn't the right choice.
Anyway I talked about Pompeiana because was actually set to be included some years ago but there are a lot of potential changes with various levels of impact that could be made, I remember a couple of years ago I've seen a thread on the Italian forum where there were suggested dozens of different route changes. The good of Liguria is that you can leave the Aurelia in every moment an there are almost always the hills just behind the Riviera.

Good points.

I guess that the question is how you define the problem.

Is it too many sprint finishes?
Or is it too little action before the Poggio?

I would agree that adding climbs earlier in the day would likely make the race a little more open.

I'd say both, the first is a consequence of the second.

 

[Rollthedice]

More of the same talk, this time for La Stampa, but with some interesting bits:

"I'm fine and I've already started training in the gym to rebalance the back muscles and posture".

"Milan-Sanremo is not enough. It could be enough for another rider, because of the crash in the Tour de France my season was ruined, it was my big goal and I was very good, what anger! "

"Do I still have the chance to win Le Tour? I hope so, maybe even this year that comes "

"We will decide in the next days, depending on the team's plans. However, Giro and Tour have very interesting routes. I miss The Giro a lot and the one in 2019 teases me "

On Liege: "I almost won it in 2012. I was just riding away and the world fell on me when Iglinsky caught me and passed me in the final. I remember that that day there were no doping controls. I showed myself as 2nd to doping control but they told me it wasn't"

"I do not feel old and I already think about the Tokyo 2020 Olympics. It still hurts how I lost for a crash in Rio 2016. For another two years I want to get have the satisfactions again, then we'll see"

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

More of the same talk, this time for La Stampa, but with some interesting bits:

"I'm fine and I've already started training in the gym to rebalance the back muscles and posture".

"Milan-Sanremo is not enough. It could be enough for another rider, because of the crash in the Tour de France my season was ruined, it was my big goal and I was very good, what anger! "

"Do I still have the chance to win Le Tour? I hope so, maybe even this year that comes "

"We will decide in the next days, depending on the team's plans. However, Giro and Tour have very interesting routes. I miss The Giro a lot and the one in 2019 teases me "

On Liege: "I almost won it in 2012. I was just riding away and the world fell on me when Iglinsky caught me and passed me in the final. I remember that that day there were no doping controls. I showed myself as 2nd to doping control but they told me it wasn't"

"I do not feel old and I already think about the Tokyo 2020 Olympics. It still hurts how I lost for a crash in Rio 2016. For another two years I want to get have the satisfactions again, then we'll see"

Quite a strong and interesting quote.

Regarding the Olympics, I don't know why people keep believing that the guy who once lost a sprint to Fränk Schleck would have beaten Sergio Henao in the final sprint.

 

[Red Rick]

Nibali has faced worse odds that amd won

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

More of the same talk, this time for La Stampa, but with some interesting bits:

"I'm fine and I've already started training in the gym to rebalance the back muscles and posture".

"Milan-Sanremo is not enough. It could be enough for another rider, because of the crash in the Tour de France my season was ruined, it was my big goal and I was very good, what anger! "

"Do I still have the chance to win Le Tour? I hope so, maybe even this year that comes "

"We will decide in the next days, depending on the team's plans. However, Giro and Tour have very interesting routes. I miss The Giro a lot and the one in 2019 teases me "

On Liege: "I almost won it in 2012. I was just riding away and the world fell on me when Iglinsky caught me and passed me in the final. I remember that that day there were no doping controls. I showed myself as 2nd to doping control but they told me it wasn't"

"I do not feel old and I already think about the Tokyo 2020 Olympics. It still hurts how I lost for a crash in Rio 2016. For another two years I want to get have the satisfactions again, then we'll see"

Quite a strong and interesting quote.

Regarding the Olympics, I don't know why people keep believing that the guy who once lost a sprint to Fränk Schleck would have beaten Sergio Henao in the final sprint.

He was trying to drop Henao on that final part of the descent, it was in that particular challenging segment that he caught Aru the lap before. Nibali is a better rouleur and TTer than Henao and even if they both arrive don't tell me the Colombian is a better sprinter. Nibali has won some sprints and has the proven ability to anticipate the finale. We will never know and for Vincenzo is still something that he can't forget (while recalling the difficult period after the Tour crash, his wife told about it). My take is that at the moment he crashed he was the favorite to win it against Henao.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

He was definitely flying down there. The whole descent is technical but where he fell is the most technical by far. Much more than V.Vleuten corner... i do believe he could made it alone with a little gap even if in an very odd chance of Majka+Henao worked together..
A Zeits still hold the strava pr down there...

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

Regarding the Olympics, I don't know why people keep believing that the guy who once lost a sprint to Fränk Schleck would have beaten Sergio Henao in the final sprint.

I don't know why people keep believing that race would have come down to a sprint.
Nibali would have attacked on the flat, and there are examples of him staying away in a flat final after a long hard race.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Regarding the Olympics, I don't know why people keep believing that the guy who once lost a sprint to Fränk Schleck would have beaten Sergio Henao in the final sprint.

I don't know why people keep believing that race would have come down to a sprint.
Nibali would have attacked on the flat, and there are examples of him staying away in a flat final after a long hard race.

It is very hard to escape on the flat from the 3-men group. His best chance was descent, that's why he was pushing so hard. In the sprint I gave him and Henao equal odds, with Majka as an outsider. It would hardly depend on the strength left in the legs, not the pure speed.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Regarding the Olympics, I don't know why people keep believing that the guy who once lost a sprint to Fränk Schleck would have beaten Sergio Henao in the final sprint.

I don't know why people keep believing that race would have come down to a sprint.
Nibali would have attacked on the flat, and there are examples of him staying away in a flat final after a long hard race.

It is very hard to escape on the flat from the 3-men group. His best chance was descent, that's why he was pushing so hard. In the sprint I gave him and Henao equal odds, with Majka as an outsider. It would hardly depend on the strength left in the legs, not the pure speed.

What would it depend on then?

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Regarding the Olympics, I don't know why people keep believing that the guy who once lost a sprint to Fränk Schleck would have beaten Sergio Henao in the final sprint.

I don't know why people keep believing that race would have come down to a sprint.
Nibali would have attacked on the flat, and there are examples of him staying away in a flat final after a long hard race.

It is very hard to escape on the flat from the 3-men group. His best chance was descent, that's why he was pushing so hard. In the sprint I gave him and Henao equal odds, with Majka as an outsider. It would hardly depend on the strength left in the legs, not the pure speed.

What would it depend on then?

My mistake I wanted to type heavily, but instead I put hardly It would depend on what's left in the legs of course.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Regarding the Olympics, I don't know why people keep believing that the guy who once lost a sprint to Fränk Schleck would have beaten Sergio Henao in the final sprint.

I don't know why people keep believing that race would have come down to a sprint.
Nibali would have attacked on the flat, and there are examples of him staying away in a flat final after a long hard race.

It is very hard to escape on the flat from the 3-men group. His best chance was descent, that's why he was pushing so hard. In the sprint I gave him and Henao equal odds, with Majka as an outsider. It would hardly depend on the strength left in the legs, not the pure speed.

What would it depend on then?

My mistake I wanted to type heavily, but instead I put hardly It would depend on what's left in the legs of course.

Okay, (of course I figured that) but isn't it a bit much to assume that Nibali had infinitely much more in the tank than Henao?

I just think his fans often make him seem a bit more as a Superman when he is unlucky than what I find reasonable.

This Tour is another example of that - to me, it's very, very unlikely he would have made the podium. It certainly ruined his chances in the WCRR, though.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Okay, (of course I figured that) but isn't it a bit much to assume that Nibali had infinitely much more in the tank than Henao?

I just think his fans often make him seem a bit more as a Superman when he is unlucky than what I find reasonable.

This Tour is another example of that - to me, it's very, very unlikely he would have made the podium. It certainly ruined his chances in the WCRR, though.

Not more unlikely than winning the OGRR which of course was likely in the bag until the crash. You see, fans tend to understand better when he is good or crap and they know better his abilities. It's though a game of "could have" which is just fun/fan talk, nothing can change it, Krushweak didn't win the Giro, Contador didn't win the Tour in 2014 and Nibali didn't get the gold or the podium in TdF last year.

 

[Red Rick]

The Tour we'll just never know, except for the fact that Nibali would've attacked on the Tourmalet and all matters cycling would have been good for a few hours.

Basically Froome was very vulnerable in the Pyrenees, Dumoulin wasn't top notch either, and if Nibali had been there, there might have been more pressure on Thomas so he he'd have had to work for it more.

Might have just won stages, which would also have been a good thing in life.

 

[roundabout]

Re:

More of the same talk, this time for La Stampa, but with some interesting bits:

"I'm fine and I've already started training in the gym to rebalance the back muscles and posture".

"Milan-Sanremo is not enough. It could be enough for another rider, because of the crash in the Tour de France my season was ruined, it was my big goal and I was very good, what anger! "

"Do I still have the chance to win Le Tour? I hope so, maybe even this year that comes "

"We will decide in the next days, depending on the team's plans. However, Giro and Tour have very interesting routes. I miss The Giro a lot and the one in 2019 teases me "

On Liege: "I almost won it in 2012. I was just riding away and the world fell on me when Iglinsky caught me and passed me in the final. I remember that that day there were no doping controls. I showed myself as 2nd to doping control but they told me it wasn't"

"I do not feel old and I already think about the Tokyo 2020 Olympics. It still hurts how I lost for a crash in Rio 2016. For another two years I want to get have the satisfactions again, then we'll see"

Is this why he signed with Astana? :lol:

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

The Tour we'll just never know, except for the fact that Nibali would've attacked on the Tourmalet and all matters cycling would have been good for a few hours.

Basically Froome was very vulnerable in the Pyrenees, Dumoulin wasn't top notch either, and if Nibali had been there, there might have been more pressure on Thomas so he he'd have had to work for it more.

Might have just won stages, which would also have been a good thing in life.

One stage in Vuelta for sure and then fly like an igls to touch the rainbow. Damn.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

The Tour we'll just never know, except for the fact that Nibali would've attacked on the Tourmalet and all matters cycling would have been good for a few hours.

Basically Froome was very vulnerable in the Pyrenees, Dumoulin wasn't top notch either, and if Nibali had been there, there might have been more pressure on Thomas so he he'd have had to work for it more.

Might have just won stages, which would also have been a good thing in life.

One stage in Vuelta for sure and then fly like an igls to touch the rainbow. Damn.

Hypothetical victories for my fave riders >> actual victories for other riders, no?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

The Tour we'll just never know, except for the fact that Nibali would've attacked on the Tourmalet and all matters cycling would have been good for a few hours.

Basically Froome was very vulnerable in the Pyrenees, Dumoulin wasn't top notch either, and if Nibali had been there, there might have been more pressure on Thomas so he he'd have had to work for it more.

Might have just won stages, which would also have been a good thing in life.

One stage in Vuelta for sure and then fly like an igls to touch the rainbow. Damn.

Hypothetical victories for my fave riders >> actual victories for other riders, no?

 

[Rollthedice]

It's that time of year with awards and festivities. Though not a very good year for Nibali, Gazzetta found a category to give him a prize, Legends at Gazzetta Sports Awards. The only interesting new thing he said is that he is 98% recuperated after the crash. A nice picture here.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

It's that time of year with awards and festivities. Though not a very good year for Nibali, Gazzetta found a category to give him a prize, Legends at Gazzetta Sports Awards. The only interesting new thing he said is that he is 98% recuperated after the crash. A nice picture here.

Last 2% he won't know until he reaches those shapes again.

Fantastic image.

This is my favorite cycling video of 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZrPAxMklI

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

It's that time of year with awards and festivities. Though not a very good year for Nibali, Gazzetta found a category to give him a prize, Legends at Gazzetta Sports Awards. The only interesting new thing he said is that he is 98% recuperated after the crash. A nice picture here.

Last 2% he won't know until he reaches those shapes again.

Fantastic image.

This is my favorite cycling video of 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZrPAxMklI

Biggest nailbite finish of the year and fantastic teamwork, his team slowing down the bunch near the front right aftr his attack and having a teammate like Colbrelli that was one of the favourites right there. Nibali was also flying a bit under the radar after Tirreno-Adriatico, it was just the perfect storm, you could see his confidence when he was fighting for positions on the Cipressa.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

It's that time of year with awards and festivities. Though not a very good year for Nibali, Gazzetta found a category to give him a prize, Legends at Gazzetta Sports Awards. The only interesting new thing he said is that he is 98% recuperated after the crash. A nice picture here.

Last 2% he won't know until he reaches those shapes again.

Fantastic image.

This is my favorite cycling video of 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZrPAxMklI

Greatest bike racer of his generation.