Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[cineteq]

Stage 16 - Passo del Mortirolo - Pulling away from Roglič

 

[Serpentin]

Re: Re:

Movistar 1-2 on the Mortirolo. The old shark has looked like pack fodder on the real climbs.

Do you even know what pack fodder means?

No, do you ?

Hint: If you want to be taken seriously, don't use words unfamiliar to you.

You can´t even watch the stage, pathetic.

 

[HelloDolly]

I think Nibali is climbing very well but the race will be won Friday & Saturday not Tuesday & Wednesday
So Nibali just needs to hang with the top guys until Friday imo...dont let Movistar go
Maybe an Alliance with Roglic now to chase Movistar

By Friday Roglic will be be on the way down
This to me is the only way Nibali can win ...Carapaz is very strong now and needs a few more days of wear and tear imo

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

I remain optimistic. The only reason Carapaz is ahead is because they so foolishly played games instead of chasing him. Yes he looks very strong, but he is young. Movistar is very strong but Caruso and Pazzo are there and Nibali has the most race nous of anyone there. He can make it happen one more time
EDIT: If Carapaz wins it's Horner all over again. Not paying attention to a legitimate rival

At least if it shapes up to be Horner all over again, I hope he will do just what he has to do to take those seconds back and not some crazy Angliru gazillion attacks. It was heroic, fantastic to watch but in the end he needed just a handful of seconds achievable maybe with a wiser approach.

Back to Italia, I think Mortirolo might be the key that will unlock the door for winning the Giro. Huge stage tomorrow.

Let the Rain fall. Forza Vince!

 

[saunaking]

I think Nibali is happy to go over mortirolo with carapaz, pressure him on descent and see what happens. If no gap, fine, try something another day

 

[Nirvana]

I would be very surprised to see Nibali gain time here, the stage has been shortened, Mortirolo slopes aren't the ones he likes, there isn't the altitude effect of the Gavia that always helps him, a Carapaz able to follow him easily after 220 kms is clearly stronger than him with less mileage and Nibali and wet descent combo has meant crash many times.

 

[Forever The Best]

That stage 15 tactics look worse every passing day.

 

[JosephK]

Re:

That stage 15 tactics look worse every passing day.

Absolutely. Gifted at least 1:30 to Carapaz (stage 14).

 

[Red Rick]

Stage 16 tactics weren't the greatest either.

I love the guy, but I just can't wrap my head around not attacking a dude without rain coat in a descent when when you have a teammate and possible allies in Astana in front.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Nibali does his best to make Roglic lose.

I'll give him that.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

I remain optimistic. The only reason Carapaz is ahead is because they so foolishly played games instead of chasing him. Yes he looks very strong, but he is young. Movistar is very strong but Caruso and Pazzo are there and Nibali has the most race nous of anyone there. He can make it happen one more time
EDIT: If Carapaz wins it's Horner all over again. Not paying attention to a legitimate rival

At least if it shapes up to be Horner all over again, I hope he will do just what he has to do to take those seconds back and not some crazy Angliru gazillion attacks. It was heroic, fantastic to watch but in the end he needed just a handful of seconds achievable maybe with a wiser approach.

Back to Italia, I think Mortirolo might be the key that will unlock the door for winning the Giro. Huge stage tomorrow.

The Shark rises.....there is time and parcours to get the job done Forza Vince!

 

[Red Rick]

Only positive thing I see about today is him putting Carthy in his place at the finish.

That was funny.

 

[SafeBet]

He's not the same rider he was in 2010. He will seldom risk it on a descent. I'd rather have him challenge till the end of the Giro than throwing any chance away like in Rio.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

He's not the same rider he was in 2010. He will seldom risk it on a descent. I'd rather have him challenge till the end of the Giro than throwing any chance away like in Rio.

Given team strenghts, this was all the way to the end.

Unless he thinks he can put serious time into Carapaz on the insane monsters that are Anterselva, San Martino di Castrozza or Croce d'Aune.

It's not like he never attacked descents anymore. He did it in the previous stage ffs.

 

[HelloDolly]

Everything still going to plan

Another day to finish Roglic off

Then Thursday & Friday its Carapaz

Sunday Landa

As the song says " One day at a time"
Or " One rider at a time"

or even one "Voodoo doll at a time " :lol:

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

That stage 15 tactics look worse every passing day.

Absolutely. Gifted at least 1:30 to Carapaz.

I was trying to talk about stage 14 to Courmayeur but confused the stages. Anyway, everyone got the meaning of my post so no problem.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

He's not the same rider he was in 2010. He will seldom risk it on a descent. I'd rather have him challenge till the end of the Giro than throwing any chance away like in Rio.

Given team strenghts, this was all the way to the end.

Unless he thinks he can put serious time into Carapaz on the insane monsters that are Anterselva, San Martino di Castrozza or Croce d'Aune.

It's not like he never attacked descents anymore. He did it in the previous stage ffs.

Maybe with the Gavia he could have made it, but now I don't see where he can gain time. A Fuente De type ambush is not possible tomorrow either because of Movistar's insane team strength. All-out Manghen is now impsossible as well because of Movistar's team strength.

 

[King Boonen]

Nibali know better than anyone that to win a race you have to finish a race. That descent really wasn't a place to attack.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Stage 16 tactics weren't the greatest either.

I love the guy, but I just can't wrap my head around not attacking a dude without rain coat in a descent when when you have a teammate and possible allies in Astana in front.

A couple of very good reasons: a) amador is one of the best descenders in the peloton, perhaps even better than Nibali, b) it's very hard to drop someone on a descent, he only gained like three seconds on his favourite one to carapaz, i doubt he's getting any more on amador (who carapaz was following) c) is it worth the risk? There are still two stages in which the time can be made up

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Stage 16 tactics weren't the greatest either.

I love the guy, but I just can't wrap my head around not attacking a dude without rain coat in a descent when when you have a teammate and possible allies in Astana in front.

A couple of very good reasons: a) amador is one of the best descenders in the peloton, perhaps even better than Nibali, b) it's very hard to drop someone on a descent, he only gained like three seconds on his favourite one to carapaz, i doubt he's getting any more on amador (who carapaz was following) c) is it worth the risk? There are still two stages in which the time can be made up

Why give 2 ***** about Amador? He got dropped after the descent almost immediately. Carapaz was shitting bricks and caught by the cold. That's an advantage you need to push. He had a teammate ahead. He had potential allies ahead in Bilbao and MAL. The Roglic group literally closed down more than 30s in the descent.

Tell me where he's gonna gain a minute elsewhere?

 

[Brullnux]

It's genuinely really difficult to drop people on a descent. If you don't have a gap, people will just follow your wheel - remember that stage at the Tour 2015 when Nibali kept attacking on a very technical descent, but because he didn't already have a gap he earned nothing? Now carapaz isn't a great descender but he isn't bad either, and the main reason why Nibali dropped him down the civiglio isn't because carapaz isn't a good descender, but rather because nibali knows that one better than anyone else. Same can't be said for the Mortirolo (or the san carlo, on which carapaz did a mighty job on the technical bit even if he then lost a bit of time on the false flat). Nibali attacks on the descent - cool - amador follows with ease, landa (another very good descender) follows, and Carapaz has three wheels to follow - the risk far outweighs the potential reward.

We'll see, recovery might trouble carapaz after today so he might be weak tomorrow. Stage 20 is too far away to understand where people are at form wise, but no matter how strong movistar are there is a lot of time to be gained there.

 

[HelloDolly]

Lots of negativity on here ?

Nibali to me looks like he is getting better and is strongest except for Landa imo

3 massive stages to come

 

[JosephK]

Re:

Nibali know better than anyone that to win a race you have to finish a race. That descent really wasn't a place to attack.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing watching the descent. It looked treacherous. If Nibali is really getting stronger, there are plenty of chances to take time back. Three more tough stages before the TT. I noticed Carapaz didn't look quite as strong today. If he starts to fade, even a little bit, Nibali can chip away at the lead before the final TT, where Nibali should have an advantage also.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

That stage 15 tactics look worse every passing day.

Absolutely. Gifted at least 1:30 to Carapaz.

Gifted 1:30? No way. Give Carapaz his credit.

In any case, he's definitely not out of it. He's looking good and Carapaz could suffer after today. May seem like a small thing but I think it was a big mistake from Movistar not to have a jacket for him at the summit of the Mortirolo. He was unnecessarily cold on the descent and looks like he's freezing in the post race interview. I like both riders - I hope NIbali can make up enough time to make the final TT interesting.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

That stage 15 tactics look worse every passing day.

Absolutely. Gifted at least 1:30 to Carapaz.

Gifted 1:30? No way. Give Carapaz his credit.

In any case, he's definitely not out of it. He's looking good and Carapaz could suffer after today. May seem like a small thing but I think it was a big mistake from Movistar not to have a jacket for him at the summit of the Mortirolo. He was unnecessarily cold on the descent and looks like he's freezing in the post race interview. I like both riders - I hope NIbali can make up enough time to make the final TT interesting.

Sure.

A group of 6 dudes was within 20s of Carapaz and the way to the finish was predominantly flat.

They finished more than 1.50 down.

How's that not a 100% gift?