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Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Brullnux said:
Red Rick said:
Stage 16 tactics weren't the greatest either.

I love the guy, but I just can't wrap my head around not attacking a dude without rain coat in a descent when when you have a teammate and possible allies in Astana in front.
A couple of very good reasons: a) amador is one of the best descenders in the peloton, perhaps even better than Nibali, b) it's very hard to drop someone on a descent, he only gained like three seconds on his favourite one to carapaz, i doubt he's getting any more on amador (who carapaz was following) c) is it worth the risk? There are still two stages in which the time can be made up
Why give 2 ***** about Amador? He got dropped after the descent almost immediately. Carapaz was shitting bricks and caught by the cold. That's an advantage you need to push. He had a teammate ahead. He had potential allies ahead in Bilbao and MAL. The Roglic group literally closed down more than 30s in the descent.

Tell me where he's gonna gain a minute elsewhere?

Don't panic, please. It's over in Verona. He was like the 7th favorite for some before the Giro, now there's only one left in front who wasn't even a favorite. I have heard so many doubters along the road who most likely never watched the man ride though it's quite hard since in almost every GT since 2010 he finishes on the podium.

P.S. I have no idea where he'll put over a minute in Carapaz.
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Red Rick said:
Brullnux said:
Red Rick said:
Stage 16 tactics weren't the greatest either.

I love the guy, but I just can't wrap my head around not attacking a dude without rain coat in a descent when when you have a teammate and possible allies in Astana in front.
A couple of very good reasons: a) amador is one of the best descenders in the peloton, perhaps even better than Nibali, b) it's very hard to drop someone on a descent, he only gained like three seconds on his favourite one to carapaz, i doubt he's getting any more on amador (who carapaz was following) c) is it worth the risk? There are still two stages in which the time can be made up
Why give 2 ***** about Amador? He got dropped after the descent almost immediately. Carapaz was shitting bricks and caught by the cold. That's an advantage you need to push. He had a teammate ahead. He had potential allies ahead in Bilbao and MAL. The Roglic group literally closed down more than 30s in the descent.

Tell me where he's gonna gain a minute elsewhere?

Don't panic, please. It's over in Verona. He was like the 7th favorite for some before the Giro, now there's only one left in front who wasn't even a favorite. I have heard so many doubters along the road who most likely never watched the man ride though it's quite hard since in almost every GT since 2010 he finishes on the podium.

P.S. I have no idea where he'll put over a minute in Carapaz.

I'd guess no one does looking at the profiles of what's left. But races aren't won on paper, they're won on the road, and I don't think anyone is better at reading a GT than Nibali.
 
Re:

Alexandre B. said:
Nibali does his best to make Roglic lose.

I'll give him that.

LOL. It's seemed that way through today. Now, wouldn't it be funny if Nibali found himself working with Roglic to gain time back on Carapaz? It's an unlikely scenario because Nibs seems to be getting stronger while Roglic has faded a bit, but strange things can happen in the final stages.
 
Re:

HelloDolly said:
Lots of negativity on here ?

Nibali to me looks like he is getting better and is strongest except for Landa imo

3 massive stages to come

Exactly!!! All the downcast comments after the guy just climbed up to second and is looking Strong. It won't be easy but there is time and opportunities can be Made. Just because someone on here can't see them doesn't mean Vince can't. The Shark is rising, Movi is strong but they had a tough day. This is the Giro Anything can happen and Nibili is a guy who can make them happen. I remain optimistic :).
 
I can understand why he did’t tried in de descent, with the weather it wasn’t the right moment to take to many risks for what just a few seconds maybe? He has a family and some big wins. It ain’t over yet, it wasn’t the last day. There will be other chances i hope.
Very good ride today, i’m happy. Glad to see him attack at Mortirolo.
 
Re: Re:

Carols said:
HelloDolly said:
Lots of negativity on here ?

Nibali to me looks like he is getting better and is strongest except for Landa imo

3 massive stages to come

Exactly!!! All the downcast comments after the guy just climbed up to second and is looking Strong. It won't be easy but there is time and opportunities can be Made. Just because someone on here can't see them doesn't mean Vince can't. The Shark is rising, Movi is strong but they had a tough day. This is the Giro Anything can happen and Nibili is a guy who can make them happen. I remain optimistic :).

Some people thought that he'll get dropped on Mortirolo, they never learn.
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Carols said:
HelloDolly said:
Lots of negativity on here ?

Nibali to me looks like he is getting better and is strongest except for Landa imo

3 massive stages to come

Exactly!!! All the downcast comments after the guy just climbed up to second and is looking Strong. It won't be easy but there is time and opportunities can be Made. Just because someone on here can't see them doesn't mean Vince can't. The Shark is rising, Movi is strong but they had a tough day. This is the Giro Anything can happen and Nibili is a guy who can make them happen. I remain optimistic :).

Some people thought that he'll get dropped on Mortirolo, they never learn.

Yeah even after 4 GTS and 3 Monument wins people still underrate him :(. SMH!
 
Nibali is very clever & experienced- He might have a chance at the GC title, but to me, it all depends on what Carapaz & Co can do to retain the Maglia Rosa- IOW I find quite a challenge for Nibs to claw back 1:47 and more going ahead into the last ITT, unless Carapaz has a bad day.....
 
"I knew there would be rain and I had a rain jacket because I knew the descent would be very cold. What we tried to do, going on the attack, was certainly a good thing because we succeeded in gaining time on Roglič.

“Now for the GC, we need to take a look and think about something to beat Carapaz. It’s not easy because he’s shown himself to be very strong, in-form and ready for this Giro d’Italia.”

"Carapaz showed that he’s in form. Today he managed the situation very well but I don’t know, it didn’t seem to me that he was at his best. But having a Landa riding like that meant that he was able to manage the situation.”

“In this moment, it’s really complicated,” Nibali added. “He’s shown himself to be very solid.”

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/giro-ditalia/need-look-beat-carapaz-wont-easy-says-vincenzo-nibali-425229#6FtXpOZMy4jZLmGM.99
 
Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
I think he has a bigger chance now than in the Giro 2017 when it was very close anyway. He just seems to be in better shape to me. And with his 3rd week recovery... Carapaz is strong but I can see him being less good in the final brutal mt stage. That's where Nibali should strike

He is in the best shape since Tour 2014, I have no doubt. If he is to lose this Giro it's because that stupid mistake after San Carlo. I was convinced he would crack Roglic, it was just a matter of time. About the others there's not even worth talking. In normal circumstances his only rival would've been Dumoulin.
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
I think he has a bigger chance now than in the Giro 2017 when it was very close anyway. He just seems to be in better shape to me. And with his 3rd week recovery... Carapaz is strong but I can see him being less good in the final brutal mt stage. That's where Nibali should strike

He is in the best shape since Tour 2014, I have no doubt. If he is to lose this Giro it's because that stupid mistake after San Carlo. I was convinced he would crack Roglic, it was just a matter of time. About the others there's not even worth talking. In normal circumstances his only rival would've been Dumoulin.
If Dumoulin had been there I imagine Carapaz wouldn't have gotten all that time.
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
I think he has a bigger chance now than in the Giro 2017 when it was very close anyway. He just seems to be in better shape to me. And with his 3rd week recovery... Carapaz is strong but I can see him being less good in the final brutal mt stage. That's where Nibali should strike

He is in the best shape since Tour 2014, I have no doubt. If he is to lose this Giro it's because that stupid mistake after San Carlo. I was convinced he would crack Roglic, it was just a matter of time. About the others there's not even worth talking. In normal circumstances his only rival would've been Dumoulin.

It's not even worth talking about Carapaz?

Allright...
 
Re: Re:

tobydawq said:
Rollthedice said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
I think he has a bigger chance now than in the Giro 2017 when it was very close anyway. He just seems to be in better shape to me. And with his 3rd week recovery... Carapaz is strong but I can see him being less good in the final brutal mt stage. That's where Nibali should strike

He is in the best shape since Tour 2014, I have no doubt. If he is to lose this Giro it's because that stupid mistake after San Carlo. I was convinced he would crack Roglic, it was just a matter of time. About the others there's not even worth talking. In normal circumstances his only rival would've been Dumoulin.

It's not even worth talking about Carapaz?

Allright...

Carapaz wasn't in any form or shape a candidate to win the Giro. I was reading here and elsewhere that Nibali might, just might get a top 5. Carapaz was 1:30 behind Nibali before Lago Serru. After the stare contest with Roglic was over, he was 1:47 in front. What would you think it would have happened if instead of Roglic, Nibali rides to keep his 1:30 advantage against Carapaz?
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
tobydawq said:
Rollthedice said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
I think he has a bigger chance now than in the Giro 2017 when it was very close anyway. He just seems to be in better shape to me. And with his 3rd week recovery... Carapaz is strong but I can see him being less good in the final brutal mt stage. That's where Nibali should strike

He is in the best shape since Tour 2014, I have no doubt. If he is to lose this Giro it's because that stupid mistake after San Carlo. I was convinced he would crack Roglic, it was just a matter of time. About the others there's not even worth talking. In normal circumstances his only rival would've been Dumoulin.

It's not even worth talking about Carapaz?

Allright...

Carapaz wasn't in any form or shape a candidate to win the Giro. I was reading here and elsewhere that Nibali might, just might get a top 5. Carapaz was 1:30 behind Nibali before Lago Serru. After the stare contest with Roglic was over, he was 1:47 in front. What would you think it would have happened if instead of Roglic, Nibali rides to keep his 1:30 advantage against Carapaz?

Sorry but this is just ludicrous. If he isn't in form to win the Giro, then Nibali should just ride away from him. I wonder why he hasn't just done that. I also wonder why he didn't follow him on the San Gallo or whatever that climb is called if he was stronger.

Carapaz lost all of his time on stage 3 due to an accident on a flat stage and then on the time trials which isn't his domain even if he defended himself well.

It's true that it was very stupid of Roglic and Nibali to underestimate him on stage 14 but it wasn't an attack anybody else in the peloton would have been able to make. He has quite obviously been the best climber in the race until today but may or may not be slightly declining.
 
First, I haven't said he is not in form to win. Again, if Nibali in this shape has a 1:30 advantage against a man he considers extremely dangerous I am pretty sure he starts to chase even if said man drops him. Carapaz might've been the best climber until Sunday, not only until today because Sunday was the first day when Nibali went all in on the climb.

If we go by the who best climber is according to this forum, Landa should have by now about 5 GTs. All that matters is who finishes first in Verona and now Carapaz has a sizeable advantage thanks to some gifts from Nibali.
 
Most has been said in some excellent posts here, so here's what my feeling is as a recap:

1. Probably the best GT Nibali since the '14 TdF.
2. The shark will attack.
3. May have outsmarted himself with dubious tactics and allowing Carapaz to take so much time on him.
4. Will Carapaz have a bad day? Unlikely. Or at least not something worth betting on.
5. We thought that Kruijwijk had it in the bag, we think Carapaz has it in the bag...it's not over.
6. Il Squalo needs another 10-15 seconds on Primoz as an ITT buffer. He needs to make up 80 seconds or so on Carapaz ahead of the ITT.
7. Landa is still seen as a threat, but in reality he'll have to play the team game.
6. Vincenzo NIbali will win this bike race.
 

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