Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[dacooley]

unfortunately, nothing can save you from suchlike darkhorses like carapaz in the situations nibs got into at lago serru and san carlo stages. in a perfect world, team would have taken responsibility and held all the carapaz guys on the rivet, but in this case nibali should have ridden for sky, rather than bahrain-merida. while we love nibali since he is riding like nibali, not like froome, don't we?
we are always prone to assume in hindsight, they shouldn't have let him go so easily, they had such a great opportunity to get rid him of... it's completely senseless as noboby can predict a dark horse being one level above than the credit you give him to. from my perspective, it's plain simple: top shape or lets say sufficient level of shape wasn't there. that's a problem.

 

[Red Rick]

Strong but not smart or explosive enough to get much done

Hopefully he tanks the Tour GC and goes for stage wins there

 

[DanielSong39]

Carapaz was too strong, it happens sometimes and sometimes you're just second best.

 

[Carols]

Yes Nibs blew it by playing mind games but Carapaz has shown himself to be his equal or better on every climb since. If you're gonna play mind games you better have the legs to cover the time you waste, he didn't

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Strong but not smart or explosive enough to get much done

Hopefully he tanks the Tour GC and goes for stage wins there

Still that 14 stage changed everything. It is what it is, he is back at his best. His kick is in slo-mo these days, guess age has something to do. Congrats to Carapaz. I'm thankful for these wonderful weeks. Elusive win will come in Le Tour.

 

[SafeBet]

Imagine Nibali having the maglia rosa today and Movistar going full gas on the Manghen... I don't think those tactical games in stage 14 would have made much difference.

 

[Red Rick]

Cause they easily stay away in a descent.

Nibs got dropped cause they rode am uneven pace

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

Cause they easily stay away in a descent.

Nibs got dropped cause they rode am uneven pace

You don't know. They might have attacked before.
And they might have attacked before in Antholz, or tried to join Lopez yesterday.

Movistar controlled the race easily but probably had the firepower to attack a lot more if need to do so.

I'm convinced the strongest rider won.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Strong but not smart or explosive enough to get much done

Hopefully he tanks the Tour GC and goes for stage wins there

Still that 14 stage changed everything. It is what it is, he is back at his best. His kick is in slo-mo these days, guess age has something to do. Congrats to Carapaz. I'm thankful for these wonderful weeks. Elusive win will come in Le Tour.

Post broken back best, certain not his 2014 best . Yes age takes it's toll.
Please only ride for stages at le Tour!

 

[huge]

Re:

Imagine Nibali having the maglia rosa today and Movistar going full gas on the Manghen... I don't think those tactical games in stage 14 would have made much difference.

The race would have been totally different.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Cause they easily stay away in a descent.

Nibs got dropped cause they rode am uneven pace

You don't know. They might have attacked before.
And they might have attacked before in Antholz, or tried to join Lopez yesterday.

Movistar controlled the race easily but probably had the firepower to attack a lot more if need to do so.

I'm convinced the strongest rider won.

And I am convinced that if Carapaz is number 1 in Movistar team from the beginning of the Giro, he doesn't win it. They flipped the cards on San Carlo, maybe Landa didn't have the legs, maybe they tought it's good to have two up there. But after that stage Movistar rode exclusively for Carapaz and after that, head to head with Nibali, Carapaz won 7 seconds. If you put the other head to head which are the three TTs there's no contest. So, Carapaz won this Giro because of tactical brilliance from his team.

 

[HelloDolly]

I dont think there was much difference in the climbing legs of Carapaz,Landa and Nibali overall ......Letting Carapaz up the road was the problem
Nibali could have followed on the Courmayeur ...and he lost 1.54 that day ...what he is behind now

But many including myself were convinced Roglic was the man to beat ...especially with his top TT

Shame as would have liked to see Nibali take one last GT win before the backwater of Trek

why not ride the Vuelta instead of the Tour and rest now and then ride the Worlds & Lombardy

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

I dont think there was much difference in the climbing legs of Carapaz,Landa and Nibali overall ......Letting Carapaz up the road was the problem
Nibali could have followed on the Courmayeur ...and he lost 1.54 that day ...what he is behind now

But many including myself were convinced Roglic was the man to beat ...especially with his top TT

Shame as would have liked to see Nibali take one last GT win before the backwater of Trek

why not ride the Vuelta instead of the Tour and rest now and then ride the Worlds & Lombardy

Probably because the team wants him in the Tour.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Cause they easily stay away in a descent.

Nibs got dropped cause they rode am uneven pace

You don't know. They might have attacked before.
And they might have attacked before in Antholz, or tried to join Lopez yesterday.

Movistar controlled the race easily but probably had the firepower to attack a lot more if need to do so.

I'm convinced the strongest rider won.

And I am convinced that if Carapaz is number 1 in Movistar team from the beginning of the Giro, he doesn't win it. They flipped the cards on San Carlo, maybe Landa didn't have the legs, maybe they tought it's good to have two up there. But after that stage Movistar rode exclusively for Carapaz and after that, head to head with Nibali, Carapaz won 7 seconds. If you put the other head to head which are the three TTs there's no contest. So, Carapaz won this Giro because of tactical brilliance from his team.

This all assumes that had carapaz not been in pink he would've ridden the same. The 20s Landa got at Antholz might have been more had Carapaz been chasing Nibali and had he attacekd earlier. Today too, Movistar might've planned an elaborate attack to drop Nibali, and honestly probably would have succeeded. Nibali dropped Carapaz all of once in this race, and although he did mess up hugely on the two days in the western alps, I'm not sure he'd have won anyway

 

[Stingishere1]

What say? He has had a very top form for almost all the Giro. I agree with who say that he would win the Giro without the mistake in the stage of Courmayer; but maybe Carapaz would dropped him in the Manghen or in the stage of Mortirolo, because Carapaz in these stages just controlled the other Gc riders.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Close but no cigar. Kinda knew after stage 14 already he and Roglic had blown it by giving Carapaz that much advantage. In the end, that was the wrong man to give that time to

 

[Lequack]

Re:

What say? He has had a very top form for almost all the Giro. I agree with who say that he would win the Giro without the mistake in the stage of Courmayer; but maybe Carapaz would dropped him in the Manghen or in the stage of Mortirolo, because Carapaz in these stages just controlled the other Gc riders.

Yeah true, we don't know what would happen if Carapaz wasn't in pink, I'm sure he'd attack a lot more and possibly still win in the end. He seems the strongest overall.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Vincenzo deserves big credit for the way he rode today. Being dropped with 120k to go and still managing to recover enough in the next 110, so that he could eventually put Roglic to the sword on the last climb. There was just nothing to do against Carapaz, who seems to have overdone himself this year. Last year, Carapaz had that single bad day on Zoncolan where he lost minutes, but this year he had none.

Maybe things would have been different without the stage 14 result. At one point during stage 14, it looked like Vincenzo almost caught back Carapaz with a long acceleration up the Colle San Carlo, but he decided not to push on with the remainder of the usual suspects (Roglic, Lopez, Landa) clinched to his wheel. That was probably a wrong judgment, but it's easy to say now.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Vincenzo deserves big credit for the way he rode today. Being dropped with 120k to go and still managing to recover enough in the next 110, so that he could eventually put Roglic to the sword on the last climb. There was just nothing to do against Carapaz, who seems to have overdone himself this year. Last year, Carapaz had that single bad day on Zoncolan where he lost minutes, but this year he had none.

Maybe things would have been different without the stage 14 result. At one point during stage 14, it looked like Vincenzo almost caught back Carapaz with a long acceleration up the Colle San Carlo, but he decided not to push on with the remainder of the usual suspects (Roglic, Lopez, Landa) clinched to his wheel. That was probably a wrong judgment, but it's easy to say now.

I detailed in this thread what happened in stage 14 but it doesn't matter now. On the other hand many "experts" saying before the Giro that a top five would be a good performance for Vincenzo... In the last ten years, six participations in Giro, always on the podium.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Vincenzo deserves big credit for the way he rode today. Being dropped with 120k to go and still managing to recover enough in the next 110, so that he could eventually put Roglic to the sword on the last climb. There was just nothing to do against Carapaz, who seems to have overdone himself this year. Last year, Carapaz had that single bad day on Zoncolan where he lost minutes, but this year he had none.

Maybe things would have been different without the stage 14 result. At one point during stage 14, it looked like Vincenzo almost caught back Carapaz with a long acceleration up the Colle San Carlo, but he decided not to push on with the remainder of the usual suspects (Roglic, Lopez, Landa) clinched to his wheel. That was probably a wrong judgment, but it's easy to say now.

I detailed in this thread what happened in stage 14 but it doesn't matter now. On the other hand many "experts" saying before the Giro that a top five would be a good performance for Vincenzo... In the last ten years, six participations in Giro, always on the podium.

Whoever those experts were, they must have missed out on Tour of the Alps or the fact that Vincenzo simply does not finish outside the top 3 of GTs that he aims for (2015 Tour is the last time he failed).

Sadly, this Giro could turn out to be the last GT where he has aimed 100% for it, when considering that next year is Olympics season.

 

[Oliver]

It is what it is. Second would be good. He was strong but Movistar and Carapaz were better. Maybe it was better with a stage or 2 with finish after the descent for Nibali.
Vuelta is less his thing anymore i think so no problem he rides the Tour, i will be there for the support ;-) a stage or 2 instead of the GC would be great...

 

[topcat]

Well done Carapaz. He was unexpectedly strong and consistent. Landa and Movistar too. It turned out to be a mistake not to watch Richie earlier but he and we didn't know. And we don't know how the race would have gone if he did. It's disappointing for Nibs and us fans but second is good and he's still a top gt rider

 

[Fergoose]

The commentator was right in alluding to Nibali's age of 34 likely being the reason for the lack of sting in his attacks in this race. I don't think we'll see a Horner, Vinokourov or Valverde style, middle-aged, career best performance from him in the coming years - and that's fine by me.

I've loved watching Nibali's career but I don't think we'll see much from him at the top level. If not for Dumoulin's bad luck and Roglic's slump in form, I don't think Vincenzo would have troubled the podium in this race (even with Lopez and Yates bombing). He seemed was almost as tired as the commentators references to "shark bites" (get new material guys!).

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

The commentator was right in alluding to Nibali's age of 34 likely being the reason for the lack of sting in his attacks in this race. I don't think we'll see a Horner, Vinokourov or Valverde style, middle-aged, career best performance from him in the coming years - and that's fine by me.

I've loved watching Nibali's career but I don't think we'll see much from him at the top level. If not for Dumoulin's bad luck and Roglic's slump in form, I don't think Vincenzo would have troubled the podium in this race (even with Lopez and Yates bombing). He seemed was almost as tired as the commentators references to "shark bites" (get new material guys!).

I see Nibali as still one of the very best grand tour riders in the world. Better than Roglic, I'd say, and on the same level as Dumoulin/Froome right now. It is not unlikely that he would have ended 2nd or 3rd in the Tour last year, had he not abandoned.

He was definitely one of the four biggest favourites when the Giro started - and with good reason if you actually look at his grand tour results in the latter years of his career. I think he lived up to expectations with what looks like a 2nd place. For me it would have been a slight disappointment, had he not been on the podium here.

 

[dfromdub]

Re:

The commentator was right in alluding to Nibali's age of 34 likely being the reason for the lack of sting in his attacks in this race. I don't think we'll see a Horner, Vinokourov or Valverde style, middle-aged, career best performance from him in the coming years - and that's fine by me.

I've loved watching Nibali's career but I don't think we'll see much from him at the top level. If not for Dumoulin's bad luck and Roglic's slump in form, I don't think Vincenzo would have troubled the podium in this race (even with Lopez and Yates bombing). He seemed was almost as tired as the commentators references to "shark bites" (get new material guys!).

I hope you are not talking about the new RAI commentator on the "Processo alla Tappa" cause I heard him going along those lines today. That guy knows nothing about cycling, I'm sure he was covering soccer up until few months ago and he was recycled in that role after they promoted Alessandra de Stefano.
RAI made a leap backward this year, race coverage was plagued by a third man spouting philosophical bull**** every two minutes and the post race analysis was even more dumbed down with this new "host" who does not even know what he's talking about.