- Aug 18, 2009
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Vino attacks everyone said:By some people definitions there are only 2 first rate riders for gc: Froome and AC, and guess what Nibali has beaten both of them this year.
Very good point.
Vino attacks everyone said:By some people definitions there are only 2 first rate riders for gc: Froome and AC, and guess what Nibali has beaten both of them this year.
I see nothing pointing at AC beating Nibali this year.Vino attacks everyone said:The only people that could possible challenge Nibbels that aint in the giro atm (or were in the giro but retired):
AC - Would probably beat him (don't know about his tt form though)
Froome - Would probably beat him
Valverde - Would challegne him, but I don't think he would have matched Nibalis tt, and he is not exactly a guy who would take minutes out of Nibali in the high mountians
Quintana - a real dark horse. Perhaps he could climb with AC and Froome, perhaps not. Perhaps he could tt like he did in Basque, perhpas not.
VDB2 - Scary
Kash - his team mate, wouldn't destoy him on purpose, but who knows
He would at worst be nr 4 this giro if Quintana is as good as we perhaps expect him to be, and ha doesnt loose time in the first week, wich would not be to unlikely.
At best he could fight for victory, like he allways do![]()
Vino attacks everyone said:By some people definitions there are only 2 first rate riders for gc: Froome and AC, and guess what Nibali has beaten both of them this year.
LaFlorecita said:And guess what, both have beaten Nibali this year. I am 100% sure AC and Dawg are better stage racers than Nibali.
Alberto beat Nibali in TOO and TDSL
Froome beat Nibali in TOO and on the MTF of TA
Eshnar said:I see nothing pointing at AC beating Nibali this year.
For the rest, I agree.
Vino attacks everyone said:And guess what LaFlo, my point was not that Nibali is the better gc rider, but by a very very very very very very normal definition of first rate rider, a guy that would challenge for the victory in any gt is a first rate rider. this is my main point.
Vino attacks everyone said:The only people that could possible challenge Nibbels that aint in the giro atm (or were in the giro but retired):
AC - Would probably beat him (don't know about his tt form though)
Froome - Would probably beat him
Valverde - Would challegne him, but I don't think he would have matched Nibalis tt, and he is not exactly a guy who would take minutes out of Nibali in the high mountians
Quintana - a real dark horse. Perhaps he could climb with AC and Froome, perhaps not. Perhaps he could tt like he did in Basque, perhpas not.
VDB2 - Scary
Kash - his team mate, wouldn't destoy him on purpose, but who knows
He would at worst be nr 4 this giro if Quintana is as good as we perhaps expect him to be, and ha doesnt loose time in the first week, wich would not be to unlikely.
At best he could fight for victory, like he allways do![]()
The sad truth is that no one is at Froome's level right now.LaFlorecita said:Again I'm not saying Nibali is a bad rider but he is not on Froome's level yet. Froome beats him in the mountains and in the TTs.
Eshnar said:The sad truth is that no one is at Froome's level right now.
As for the rest, I don't see anyone clearly superior to Nibali. That's all.
Miburo said:What about paris-nice Porte?
If we would have seen a 100% Porte in the giro. I think he would have given Nibali a good challenge.
2 years ago this comment would have been ***, times change![]()
LaFlorecita said:Well then why didn't you say that?
I for one would not count Cobo and Scarponi as first rate riders. But whatever, I guess you would.
Vino attacks everyone said:There is a quite obvious difference between a 36 year old italian, a spaniard that has not shown anything for a couple of years, and a riders in his peak years, that comes from a third in the tour last year and earlier this year beating his main rivals in both TA and Trentino
And if we look at first rate gc riders then for me this is the riders that can be called "first rate": AC, Froome, Wiggo, Nibali, Valverde, Quintana and JRod.
This is because in every gt they enter the would all fight for the top 3. Still "second rate gc riders" like Porte, Pozzovivo, Evans, Sammy Sacnhez, VDB2, Rolland, Pinot, Betancur, Henaa, Uran, Scarponi could top 3 without it being too weird.
Still one have to be honest with oneself and admit that out of 10 gt riders the likelyhood of NIbali beating Scarponi most times is pretty clear.
Yes, am sure your list is perfect. Go marry ACF then if you love Evans so muchLaFlorecita said:Add Evans to first rate please. The old guy has shown enough to be considered a first rate GC rider, if this is your standard.
For me, it would be
Froome --> Clear favorite for stage race and GTs
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AC --> Also a big favorite for stage races and GTs, just not as big as Froome
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Nibali, Valverde, Purito, Wiggins, Evans, Quintana --> Favorites depending on the field, potential GT winners, most definitely top 5 in every stage race they start in good shape
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A whole lot of others
LaFlorecita said:Yup.
You know we haven't seen what Nibali's climbing is like this Giro. If this is his max, then it's pathetic. But if he's been holding back, we just don't know. So we can't compare him to other riders, except Froome of course who is obviously a mile ahead. I also believe Alberto is still better than Nibali, simply because I still have hope this is just an off year and next year everything will be back to normal. Atm, though, Nibali probably has the edge in a 1 week stage race, in a 3 week stage race, I think Alberto might win because he never gives up.
Vino attacks everyone said:Yes, am sure your list is perfect. Go marry ACF then if you love Evans so much
My point is really just that for as long as the rider has a probable chance of top 3 the gt he is a first rate rider. Evans is a probable top 6ish, but on paper he is not a top 3 rider, therfore I would not call him a first rate gt rider. Still, IF he should manage a top 3 It would not be too weird, so he is a good 2nd rat gt rider.
Anyways, I rarely call riders out on what "rate" they got, so it bothers me not to much![]()
Netserk said:Judged by their performances this year:
Nibali>>>Contador
Netserk said:Judged by their performances this year:
Nibali>>>Contador
Nibali is for sure amongst the top-3 GT riders atm.
TANK91 said:No you no my thought on Alberto vs Froome no need to worry about Contador he is better than Nibali still, how can people base Nibali is better than Contador, on what the Tirreno Adriatico?. Contador would have beat Nibali on Prato di Tivo imo he just attacked too much. If people say Nibali is better then wow.
PN had the weakest field everMiburo said:What about paris-nice Porte?![]()
Netserk said:Judged by their performances this year:
Nibali>>>Contador
It's ridiculous if you use San Luis to compare them.LaFlorecita said:That's ridiculous, Nibali beat Alberto once, Alberto beat Nibali twice. You cannot say Nibali is much much better (which >>> implies)
Eshnar said:PN had the weakest field everSo I have no idea how good he is.
In Pais Vasco no one did anything and he failed to win the ITT. I guess it says enough.LaFlorecita said:Pais Vasco?
LaFlorecita said:Pais Vasco?