Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Aug 18, 2009
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Vino attacks everyone said:
By some people definitions there are only 2 first rate riders for gc: Froome and AC, and guess what Nibali has beaten both of them this year.

Very good point.
 
Mar 24, 2011
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Vino attacks everyone said:
The only people that could possible challenge Nibbels that aint in the giro atm (or were in the giro but retired):
AC - Would probably beat him (don't know about his tt form though)
Froome - Would probably beat him
Valverde - Would challegne him, but I don't think he would have matched Nibalis tt, and he is not exactly a guy who would take minutes out of Nibali in the high mountians :rolleyes:
Quintana - a real dark horse. Perhaps he could climb with AC and Froome, perhaps not. Perhaps he could tt like he did in Basque, perhpas not.
VDB2 - Scary :D
Kash - his team mate, wouldn't destoy him on purpose, but who knows :p

He would at worst be nr 4 this giro if Quintana is as good as we perhaps expect him to be, and ha doesnt loose time in the first week, wich would not be to unlikely.

At best he could fight for victory, like he allways do :cool:
I see nothing pointing at AC beating Nibali this year.
For the rest, I agree.
 
May 15, 2011
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Vino attacks everyone said:
By some people definitions there are only 2 first rate riders for gc: Froome and AC, and guess what Nibali has beaten both of them this year.

And guess what, both have beaten Nibali this year. I am 100% sure AC and Dawg are better stage racers than Nibali.

Alberto beat Nibali in TOO and TDSL

Froome beat Nibali in TOO and on the MTF of TA
 
May 5, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
And guess what, both have beaten Nibali this year. I am 100% sure AC and Dawg are better stage racers than Nibali.

Alberto beat Nibali in TOO and TDSL

Froome beat Nibali in TOO and on the MTF of TA

And guess what LaFlo, my point was not that Nibali is the better gc rider, but by a very very very very very very normal definition of first rate rider, a guy that would challenge for the victory in any gt is a first rate rider. this is my main point.
 
May 15, 2011
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Eshnar said:
I see nothing pointing at AC beating Nibali this year.
For the rest, I agree.

Maybe not.

But at least he would've given Nibali a hard time.

Why doesn't Nibali ride TDF? He could try to go for the double and would get his battle with AC he so dearly wants. Plus a battle with Froome. Who wouldn't want that?

Of course, he would not be recovered in time for the tour. BUT. The same goes for Alberto if he rides Vuelta, which Nibali wants.

I say let's wait till next year before we draw any conclusions. I think we'll see Nibali get his *** handed to him by Froome. Alberto will ride the Giro. I hope.

Again I'm not saying Nibali is a bad rider but he is not on Froome's level yet. Froome beats him in the mountains and in the TTs.
 
May 15, 2011
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Vino attacks everyone said:
And guess what LaFlo, my point was not that Nibali is the better gc rider, but by a very very very very very very normal definition of first rate rider, a guy that would challenge for the victory in any gt is a first rate rider. this is my main point.

Well then why didn't you say that?

I for one would not count Cobo and Scarponi as first rate riders. But whatever, I guess you would.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Vino attacks everyone said:
The only people that could possible challenge Nibbels that aint in the giro atm (or were in the giro but retired):
AC - Would probably beat him (don't know about his tt form though)
Froome - Would probably beat him
Valverde - Would challegne him, but I don't think he would have matched Nibalis tt, and he is not exactly a guy who would take minutes out of Nibali in the high mountians
Quintana - a real dark horse. Perhaps he could climb with AC and Froome, perhaps not. Perhaps he could tt like he did in Basque, perhpas not.
VDB2 - Scary :D
Kash - his team mate, wouldn't destoy him on purpose, but who knows :p

He would at worst be nr 4 this giro if Quintana is as good as we perhaps expect him to be, and ha doesnt loose time in the first week, wich would not be to unlikely.

At best he could fight for victory, like he allways do :cool:

Where's purito? If you put in valverde then purito needs to be in it. He would take a lot of boni sec so he's definitely a threat.

And put the 'probably' away with Froome :D

It's really hard to say with Contador. Normally he would crush nibali but this year...well we'll have to wait for the dauphine for more on that really but even then it's the dauphine and it doesn't say everything so the tour will give us an aswer.
 
Mar 24, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
Again I'm not saying Nibali is a bad rider but he is not on Froome's level yet. Froome beats him in the mountains and in the TTs.
The sad truth is that no one is at Froome's level right now.
As for the rest, I don't see anyone clearly superior to Nibali. That's all.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Eshnar said:
The sad truth is that no one is at Froome's level right now.
As for the rest, I don't see anyone clearly superior to Nibali. That's all.

What about paris-nice Porte? ;)

If we would have seen a 100% Porte in the giro. I think he would have given Nibali a good challenge.

2 years ago this comment would have been ***, times change :eek:
 
May 15, 2011
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Miburo said:
What about paris-nice Porte? ;)

If we would have seen a 100% Porte in the giro. I think he would have given Nibali a good challenge.

2 years ago this comment would have been ***, times change :eek:

Yup.

You know we haven't seen what Nibali's climbing is like this Giro. If this is his max, then it's pathetic. But if he's been holding back, we just don't know. So we can't compare him to other riders, except Froome of course who is obviously a mile ahead. I also believe Alberto is still better than Nibali, simply because I still have hope this is just an off year and next year everything will be back to normal. Atm, though, Nibali probably has the edge in a 1 week stage race, in a 3 week stage race, I think Alberto might win because he never gives up.
 
May 5, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
Well then why didn't you say that?

I for one would not count Cobo and Scarponi as first rate riders. But whatever, I guess you would.

There is a quite obvious difference between a 36 year old italian, a spaniard that has not shown anything for a couple of years, and a riders in his peak years, that comes from a third in the tour last year and earlier this year beating his main rivals in both TA and Trentino ;)

And if we look at first rate gc riders then for me this is the riders that can be called "first rate": AC, Froome, Wiggo, Nibali, Valverde, Quintana and JRod.
This is because in every gt they enter the would all fight for the top 3. Still "second rate gc riders" like Porte, Pozzovivo, Evans, Sammy Sacnhez, VDB2, Rolland, Pinot, Betancur, Henaa, Uran, Scarponi could top 3 without it being too weird.
Still one have to be honest with oneself and admit that out of 10 gt riders the likelyhood of NIbali beating Scarponi most times is pretty clear.
 
Aug 18, 2009
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Some people have fixed ideas of who the best rider is, and when that changes they part ways with reality. I think that's what had happened in this thread.

Ironically, what these types want is a predictable race where their man wins over and over.
 
May 15, 2011
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Vino attacks everyone said:
There is a quite obvious difference between a 36 year old italian, a spaniard that has not shown anything for a couple of years, and a riders in his peak years, that comes from a third in the tour last year and earlier this year beating his main rivals in both TA and Trentino ;)

And if we look at first rate gc riders then for me this is the riders that can be called "first rate": AC, Froome, Wiggo, Nibali, Valverde, Quintana and JRod.
This is because in every gt they enter the would all fight for the top 3. Still "second rate gc riders" like Porte, Pozzovivo, Evans, Sammy Sacnhez, VDB2, Rolland, Pinot, Betancur, Henaa, Uran, Scarponi could top 3 without it being too weird.
Still one have to be honest with oneself and admit that out of 10 gt riders the likelyhood of NIbali beating Scarponi most times is pretty clear.

Add Evans to first rate please. The old guy has shown enough to be considered a first rate GC rider, if this is your standard.

For me, it would be

Froome --> Clear favorite for stage race and GTs
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AC --> Also a big favorite for stage races and GTs, just not as big as Froome
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Nibali, Valverde, Purito, Wiggins, Evans, Quintana --> Favorites depending on the field, potential GT winners, most definitely top 5 in every stage race they start in good shape
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A whole lot of others
 
May 5, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
Add Evans to first rate please. The old guy has shown enough to be considered a first rate GC rider, if this is your standard.

For me, it would be

Froome --> Clear favorite for stage race and GTs
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AC --> Also a big favorite for stage races and GTs, just not as big as Froome
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Nibali, Valverde, Purito, Wiggins, Evans, Quintana --> Favorites depending on the field, potential GT winners, most definitely top 5 in every stage race they start in good shape
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A whole lot of others
Yes, am sure your list is perfect. Go marry ACF then if you love Evans so much :mad:

:D


My point is really just that for as long as the rider has a probable chance of top 3 the gt he is a first rate rider. Evans is a probable top 6ish, but on paper he is not a top 3 rider, therfore I would not call him a first rate gt rider. Still, IF he should manage a top 3 It would not be too weird, so he is a good 2nd rat gt rider.
Anyways, I rarely call riders out on what "rate" they got, so it bothers me not to much ;)
 
Apr 30, 2011
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Judged by their performances this year:

Nibali>>>Contador

Nibali is for sure amongst the top-3 GT riders atm.
 
Mar 9, 2013
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LaFlorecita said:
Yup.

You know we haven't seen what Nibali's climbing is like this Giro. If this is his max, then it's pathetic. But if he's been holding back, we just don't know. So we can't compare him to other riders, except Froome of course who is obviously a mile ahead. I also believe Alberto is still better than Nibali, simply because I still have hope this is just an off year and next year everything will be back to normal. Atm, though, Nibali probably has the edge in a 1 week stage race, in a 3 week stage race, I think Alberto might win because he never gives up.

No you no my thought on Alberto vs Froome no need to worry about Contador he is better than Nibali still, how can people base Nibali is better than Contador, on what the Tirreno Adriatico?. Contador would have beat Nibali on Prato di Tivo imo he just attacked too much. If people say Nibali is better then wow.
 
May 15, 2011
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Vino attacks everyone said:
Yes, am sure your list is perfect. Go marry ACF then if you love Evans so much :mad:

:D


My point is really just that for as long as the rider has a probable chance of top 3 the gt he is a first rate rider. Evans is a probable top 6ish, but on paper he is not a top 3 rider, therfore I would not call him a first rate gt rider. Still, IF he should manage a top 3 It would not be too weird, so he is a good 2nd rat gt rider.
Anyways, I rarely call riders out on what "rate" they got, so it bothers me not to much ;)

Yes I really love Evans lol :D
 
May 15, 2011
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Netserk said:
Judged by their performances this year:

Nibali>>>Contador

That's ridiculous, Nibali beat Alberto once, Alberto beat Nibali twice. You cannot say Nibali is much much better (which >>> implies)
 
May 15, 2011
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Netserk said:
Judged by their performances this year:

Nibali>>>Contador

Nibali is for sure amongst the top-3 GT riders atm.

TANK91 said:
No you no my thought on Alberto vs Froome no need to worry about Contador he is better than Nibali still, how can people base Nibali is better than Contador, on what the Tirreno Adriatico?. Contador would have beat Nibali on Prato di Tivo imo he just attacked too much. If people say Nibali is better then wow.

Lol :D

Netserk where do you rate Wiggins and Purito, for example? Assuming you mean top 3 GT riders- Froome Alberto Nibali
 
Mar 9, 2013
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Netserk said:
Judged by their performances this year:

Nibali>>>Contador

I agree based on this year but i go back to Tirreno again Nibali was not impressive atall and still won the race make of that what you will.:D
1 bad stage is what made Nibali won and looking at this Giro he clearly loves the rain don't you think?
 
Apr 30, 2011
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LaFlorecita said:
That's ridiculous, Nibali beat Alberto once, Alberto beat Nibali twice. You cannot say Nibali is much much better (which >>> implies)
It's ridiculous if you use San Luis to compare them.

They both have had two stage races that they have aimed for:

Nibali:
T-A and Trentino. Won both.

Contador:
T-A and PV. 3rd and 5th.