Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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2017 Lombardia he was the strongest but was a marked man, still found a way. On Civiglio Pino went, then Pozzo tried to bridge and was hanging in front of the Nibali group. He attacked at the right moment, went like a moto up to Pino and then dropped him on the descent going again very fast on the last climb. In fact all that autumn Italian classics campaign he was very strong, maybe in the best shape after the monster peak for Tour 2014.
 
The difference is that, with the exception of this 2022 Tour de france, Pogacar has been the strongest, the dominant force and could win in most scenarios.

Nibali was the never the strongest from a physiological perspective, at least in the monuments, but demonstrated greatness in a way that most riders could never do.
Same as the luck debate and honestly the same story for most all time greats when it comes to one day races. They win races where they aren´t the strongest but also lose some where they looked like the strongest rider.

Looking at Nibali´s big one day moments.

2012 Liege. Clinic topic prevented him from winning solo. I guess that makes him the strongest. At least on paper.
2013. Worlds. Crashes. Outnumbered against a spanish team that was making sure to prevent him from winning at all costs. Rui Costa says thank you. Arguably the strongest.
2015 Lombardia. Probably not the strongest uphill. Wins downhill.
2016 Olympics. Probably the strongest uphill. Crashes.
2017 Lombardia. Most dominant monument performance. Hard to argue that he wasn´t the strongest rider.
2018 San Remo. I guess that is the perfect example for race instincts and smarts. Without a doubt at least 10 riders that could have easily followed him or even dropped him on a climb like the Poggio.

I actually think that his raw power numbers in his prime are getting underrated because of all the additional stuff fans like to hype. He was willing to take risks but in the it is hard to tell if he lost/won more/less because of it.
 
Pogacar has almost as many wins in his career as Nibali. And he's 23.
Unless something unexpected happens he will retire with a much better palmares than Nibali (in both GTs and Monuments).

There's really no comparision for Pogacar this century. Not Froome, not Contador, not Nibali.
No doubt about that, the debate was about similar type of GT riders. Teddy Merckxs is something else.
 
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Same as the luck debate and honestly the same story for most all time greats when it comes to one day races. They win races where they aren´t the strongest but also lose some where they looked like the strongest rider.

Looking at Nibali´s big one day moments.

2012 Liege. Clinic topic prevented him from winning solo. I guess that makes him the strongest. At least on paper.
2013. Worlds. Crashes. Outnumbered against a spanish team that was making sure to prevent him from winning at all costs. Rui Costa says thank you. Arguably the strongest.
2015 Lombardia. Probably not the strongest uphill. Wins downhill.
2016 Olympics. Probably the strongest uphill. Crashes.
2017 Lombardia. Most dominant monument performance. Hard to argue that he wasn´t the strongest rider.
2018 San Remo. I guess that is the perfect example for race instincts and smarts. Without a doubt at least 10 riders that could have easily followed him or even dropped him on a climb like the Poggio.

I actually think that his raw power numbers in his prime are getting underrated because of all the additional stuff fans like to hype. He was willing to take risks but in the it is hard to tell if he lost/won more/less because of it.
But that's what i mean, his first Lombardia and his Sanremo win are my favourite Vincenzo moments. Because he won in such a brilliant manner, not because he had better 40 minute watt per kilo than the others .

It's about the absence of a fear of losing. Sanremo he went all in because he had Colbrelli behind.

We can also talk about races that were not won but I will also remember. The 2018 Ronde van vlaanderen. The 2014 (I think) Sanremo, attacking at cipressa in the rain and passing breakaway riders on the wet descent. 2015 amstel gold race.

2018 Lombardia when he got caught after getting dropped by Pino and attacked again to get second place.

2017 was Nibali at his best in the autumn. His team were playing with the peloton at Emilia. I miss those days. Vincenzo and Alaphilippe and some others having their fun.
 
Another active day in the sun somewhere in Spain. At about 70km to go he got together with a group of riders who managed to bridge to the initial break. They were caught by the peloton when there were some 25 km left with Nibali trying to get away. Yates joined and countered as the road was slowly going up, Nibs was dropped after some hundred meters and Simon soloed to victory.
 
I wonder if these two get along well, what the levels of respect between them is.

Who can forget the Simon Yates interview before the 2019 Giro when he said 'if I was my rivals, I would be sh**ing myself'

And then Vincenzo comment after crossing the line on stage 1 ITT to San Luca climb; 'maybe now I should go to the toilet'

In 2019 vincenzo came out on top, as in 2020. 2021 Yates was the stronger. This year, different goals in the end, but a lot of time together on the road in Italy.

Anyway, I was wondering if there was some point chasing going on with Astana here in Spain, but looks like these .1 races were getting some important speed efforts in the legs before San Sebastian
 
I wonder if these two get along well, what the levels of respect between them is.

Who can forget the Simon Yates interview before the 2019 Giro when he said 'if I was my rivals, I would be sh**ing myself'

And then Vincenzo comment after crossing the line on stage 1 ITT to San Luca climb; 'maybe now I should go to the toilet'

In 2019 vincenzo came out on top, as in 2020. 2021 Yates was the stronger. This year, different goals in the end, but a lot of time together on the road in Italy.

Anyway, I was wondering if there was some point chasing going on with Astana here in Spain, but looks like these .1 races were getting some important speed efforts in the legs before San Sebastian
I think they are indifferent to each other. Anyway the proverbial top shape Yates in preparation races is back, it might have been a small race but he looked already ready for Vuelta, which of course is some three weeks away.

Nibali is fine for these first races, I expect him to be lively in San Sebastian but with no hopes whatsoever to see him involved in the final battles.

From a recent interview in La Stampa:

"No nostalgia to see the stages (Tour de France) from home, I still feel like a rider and I don't think about the past."

Starting the last two and a half months of your career? "A little bit, yes. In Astana we are all in shock because of the doping blizzard that hit Lopez, I hope for him that everything will be resolved. In the meantime, let's look ahead, I will race the Vuelta for fun."

Could a duel with Pogacar in Lombardy be the ultimate gift for the fans? " Of course it could, that would be great."
 
I think they are indifferent to each other. Anyway the proverbial top shape Yates in preparation races is back, it might have been a small race but he looked already ready for Vuelta, which of course is some three weeks away.

Nibali is fine for these first races, I expect him to be lively in San Sebastian but with no hopes whatsoever to see him involved in the final battles.

From a recent interview in La Stampa:

"No nostalgia to see the stages (Tour de France) from home, I still feel like a rider and I don't think about the past."

Starting the last two and a half months of your career? "A little bit, yes. In Astana we are all in shock because of the doping blizzard that hit Lopez, I hope for him that everything will be resolved. In the meantime, let's look ahead, I will race the Vuelta for fun."

Could a duel with Pogacar in Lombardy be the ultimate gift for the fans? " Of course it could, that would be great."
Nibs has looked at Pogs descending in the Tour and seen that he can climb and descend Civlgio faster than Pog can descend it
 
Pogacar has almost as many wins in his career as Nibali. And he's 23.
Unless something unexpected happens he will retire with a much better palmares than Nibali (in both GTs and Monuments).

There's really no comparision for Pogacar this century. Not Froome, not Contador, not Nibali.
Nibali achieved his potential, Contador fell short, Froome exceeded his, which should have been less than Nibali.
 
Pogacar has almost as many wins in his career as Nibali. And he's 23.
Unless something unexpected happens he will retire with a much better palmares than Nibali (in both GTs and Monuments).

There's really no comparision for Pogacar this century. Not Froome, not Contador, not Nibali.
Just goes to show what Nibali could have actually done if he was as lucky as people claimed he is.
 
After San Sebastian a quick trip home to Lugano for a criterium, Axion Lugano Summer Ride won by Ganna, Simon Clarke second and Nibs third. Tomorrow starting in Burgos.

I remember reading a story about Anquetil demanding to get the appearance fees from other riders in return for him not contesting the win in GP Lugano one year, but then he just destroyed them anyway. I guess it was the same case here, but Nibali simply had too much class to break his promise.
 
Surprisingly good start in Burgos, getting more explosive the closer he is to retirement.

The last stage is as usual to Lagunas de Neila and it brings back memories from 2013 when he attacked Quintana in the last kilometer or so. What happened was that Quintana countered, Nibali tried to follow, blew up and lost 48 sec. Still finished third.

Still sad he didn't find those 20 missing watt s for La Vuelta.
 
Last week there was a very interesting edition of SqualoTV on twitch with Nibali, Pozzo and Purito. Unfortunately it's in Italian but I managed to understand some. Purito is a great guy (we knew that), he was willing to share candidly some insights from a few of his dramatic loses like Firenze ("If it would have come to that I would have preferred to lose to Vincenzo") and Fuente De ("Everything fell into the wrong place then.") and his Lombardia wins.

Nibali just finished his first race since coming down from training camp in Livigno, Prueba Villafranca and he said there was a money prize for breaking the record of the fastest ascent to a climb on the circuit. The record was held by Sanchez, obviously Yates bested it by a few seconds and Nibs said that on one of the climbs he recorded 500 W for 5 minutes. Just some nice unusual info.

 

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