Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Miburo]

Re:

Vino has limited expectations from Aru at the Tour, sent him there to try him, see what's his level. I'm sure Vino wants a podium but I find it very hard to achieve. He had an incredible team around in Giro and Vuelta, much stronger than Nibali's, the key to his success. Put Aru in FDJ 2015 and he'll maybe top five in any GT with strong competition.

Relax bro, aru would still podium the giro of that year easily. Who would be above him?

And he still would have easily podium'd the vuelta. I know you're a nibali fan but no reason to hate on Aru because of that.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Vino has limited expectations from Aru at the Tour, sent him there to try him, see what's his level. I'm sure Vino wants a podium but I find it very hard to achieve. He had an incredible team around in Giro and Vuelta, much stronger than Nibali's, the key to his success. Put Aru in FDJ 2015 and he'll maybe top five in any GT with strong competition.

Relax bro, aru would still podium the giro of that year easily. Who would be above him?

And he still would have easily podium'd the vuelta. I know you're a nibali fan but no reason to hate on Aru because of that.

I guess you're right, had a momentary lapse of reason. No wonder after today's stage.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Vino has limited expectations from Aru at the Tour, sent him there to try him, see what's his level. I'm sure Vino wants a podium but I find it very hard to achieve. He had an incredible team around in Giro and Vuelta, much stronger than Nibali's, the key to his success. Put Aru in FDJ 2015 and he'll maybe top five in any GT with strong competition.

I could very well see Aru end up on the podium. I still maintain he is the better GT rider than Pinot and the BMC riders are mainly question marks and its not unlikely that either Froome, Contador or Quintana will crash/be under par. I could even see him top-2 this year, Aru is a fighter like Nibali.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Vino has limited expectations from Aru at the Tour, sent him there to try him, see what's his level. I'm sure Vino wants a podium but I find it very hard to achieve. He had an incredible team around in Giro and Vuelta, much stronger than Nibali's, the key to his success. Put Aru in FDJ 2015 and he'll maybe top five in any GT with strong competition.

Relax bro, aru would still podium the giro of that year easily. Who would be above him?

And he still would have easily podium'd the vuelta. I know you're a nibali fan but no reason to hate on Aru because of that.

I guess you're right, had a momentary lapse of reason. No wonder after today's stage.

I understand man, we've all been there. But don't worry, nibali is a champ, he'll get above this for sure

 

[trevim]

I'm a bit sad to see Nibali riding backwards day after day but I still hope he bounces back one of these days to win a killer stage, maybe Pinerolo with that difficult descent of Pramartino.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

Vino has limited expectations from Aru at the Tour, sent him there to try him, see what's his level. I'm sure Vino wants a podium but I find it very hard to achieve. He had an incredible team around in Giro and Vuelta, much stronger than Nibali's, the key to his success. Put Aru in FDJ 2015 and he'll maybe top five in any GT with strong competition.

I could very well see Aru end up on the podium. I still maintain he is the better GT rider than Pinot and the BMC riders are mainly question marks and its not unlikely that either Froome, Contador or Quintana will crash/be under par. I could even see him top-2 this year, Aru is a fighter like Nibali.

No surprise here, but I disagree . For the first time, they'll go head to head in a GT and we shall see.

Clearly, I was hopeful that Il Squalo would turn it around, and now I'm coming to the realization that Nibali is on the decline. And he may have been showing signs of it at the TdF last year. He knows how to prepare for a GT, and particularly for a Giro. So no excuses.

Aru is the future for Astana. I think that we just saw the end of Vincenzo Nibali as a GC contender. The fighting spirit remains, but the legs aren't quite there. Sad.

 

[movingtarget]

The podium is looking hard for him now but Valverde could lose time again in the mountains and Zakarin looks really strong but he is also a bit up and down in the mountains. SK looks like the winner but the podium still looks pretty open. Chaves should bounce back I think.

 

[lenric]

I see Aru as being the most explosive climber of the so-called new generation. Whether that makes him more suitable to win the Tour than the likes of Quintana, Pinot, Zakarin or whoever you name is another question.

However, the problem with Zakarin and Pinot is the lack of a team able to support them, which is clearly the opposite with Aru. Let's just hope that Pinot leaves FDJ soon.

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

The podium is looking hard for him now but Valverde could lose time again in the mountains and Zakarin looks really strong but he is also a bit up and down in the mountains. SK looks like the winner but the podium still looks pretty open. Chaves should bounce back I think.

To achieve a podium spot he needs to ride very defensively and hope somebody cracks. I hope he doesn't do that. It's not worth it. A stage win would mean much more at this point, both for his fans and his morale.

I believe he needs to set new goals for next season. Sure he should still ride a GT but try to target different races as well. Try to get going early and win a classic, even a semi classic maybe, or a one week stage race. He would be among the favorites for Itzulia for instance. Get some different wins in his palmares and a confidence boost and then see if he's still competitive in a GT.

 

[SafeBet]

As for Aru it's absolutely normal that Astana is sending him to the Tour. He's the future for them and is coming from an amazing season in GTs while Nibali underperformed at the Tour. Sending Nibali to the Giro was a very sensible choice, hoping he would get some confidence back in a relatively weaker field. Unfortunately it didn't work out, and now it's pretty obvious him and Astana will part ways.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

As for Aru it's absolutely normal that Astana is sending him to the Tour. He's the future for them and is coming from an amazing season in GTs while Nibali underperformed at the Tour. Sending Nibali to the Giro was a very sensible choice, hoping he would get some confidence back in a relatively weaker field. Unfortunately it didn't work out, and now it's pretty obvious him and Astana will part ways.

Not many teams could afford Nibali so finding a team for the money he demands might be an issue. Maybe a new team will start but they have to compete for a place in the Pro Tour so next year would be unlikely for a new team. He won't go to Movistar, BMC or Sky. Katusha might be a possibility with Rodriguez almost finished and Zakarin as the other team captain. Astana still might be his best option if he wants to stay and Vino wants him. They are a strong team for GTs and if Aru does the Giro next year then Nibali might get a crack at the Tour. Maybe 2013/14 were Nibali's best years and he will never regain that form. It happened that way for Gilbert in the classics as well. Only the very best can stay at the top for more than a few seasons and at the moment it is Contador and Froome.

 

[SafeBet]

Surely the Bahrain project would have enough money to buy a license from one of those WT teams going down right?
After a couple of disappointing seasons he'll need to lower his salary anyway.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Surely the Bahrain project would have enough money to buy a license from one of those WT teams going down right?
After a couple of disappointing seasons he'll need to lower his salary anyway.

Maybe but after reading about the Alonso project for so long I got tired of reading about what might happen. Will be interesting to see what happens after Tinkoff and IAM have gone. Hopefully some new sponsors arrive on the scene but with more races disappearing and sponsors hard to find it's a bit of a worry for Pro cycling. Even worse for the women and the smaller pro teams.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

Bettini admitted he did not know any details of Nibali’s training but did not hold back.

So he's basically talking out of his ****.

 

[Eclipse]

Re: Re:

Vino has limited expectations from Aru at the Tour, sent him there to try him, see what's his level. I'm sure Vino wants a podium but I find it very hard to achieve. He had an incredible team around in Giro and Vuelta, much stronger than Nibali's, the key to his success. Put Aru in FDJ 2015 and he'll maybe top five in any GT with strong competition.

I could very well see Aru end up on the podium. I still maintain he is the better GT rider than Pinot and the BMC riders are mainly question marks and its not unlikely that either Froome, Contador or Quintana will crash/be under par. I could even see him top-2 this year, Aru is a fighter like Nibali.

I would agree with this I think, although it remains to be seen how Turbo Pinot actually ends up going at a 3 week race this year, maybe he has really taken a sustained step up. Either way for me Aru has proven he has GC mettle, he doesn't quit and is willing to take a risk to achieve a result. The top 3 at the tour might look as though it's set in stone but all of them have had to withdraw from GT's in the last couple of years for one reason or another, it wouldn't be that shocking for someone to have unforeseen issues.

Generally speaking I think it's logical they sent him to the tour because a) variety makes you a better rider and b) they want to see how he stacks up against the top riders outside of Astana when they at their best. Meanwhile it made sense to send Nibali to the Giro because it was an expected win to put him back on track but for whatever reason that has all rather fallen apart.

 

[Red Rick]

Bettini may not know the training Nibali has done, but he certainly has a few points.

 

[SeriousSam]

[...]
“We’ll evaluate it well with the tests. For now I hope it’s not that even some things make me fear if might be a valid theory. I’m in difficulty because I don’t understand what’s happening,” said Nibali, who also explained why he had been so reluctant to speak to reporters following the past two stages.

“After the finish line, you’re waiting for me and I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t like looking bad like this. For me these are humiliations. I’ll get to Turin. I can’t give up.”

Particularly interesting:

"My current condition is what it is, but I don’t understand because it seems to me that I feel well."

 

[pink_jersey]

Re:

[...]
“We’ll evaluate it well with the tests. For now I hope it’s not that even some things make me fear if might be a valid theory. I’m in difficulty because I don’t understand what’s happening,” said Nibali, who also explained why he had been so reluctant to speak to reporters following the past two stages.

“After the finish line, you’re waiting for me and I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t like looking bad like this. For me these are humiliations. I’ll get to Turin. I can’t give up.”

Particularly interesting:

"My current condition is what it is, but I don’t understand because it seems to me that I feel well."

This seems like declining to me.

 

[SafeBet]

Exactly. He trained well, he feels well but he can't perform as he used to.
Jnless there are clinical issues involved that we can't discuss here.

 

[Climbing]

Re: Re:

[...]
“We’ll evaluate it well with the tests. For now I hope it’s not that even some things make me fear if might be a valid theory. I’m in difficulty because I don’t understand what’s happening,” said Nibali, who also explained why he had been so reluctant to speak to reporters following the past two stages.

“After the finish line, you’re waiting for me and I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t like looking bad like this. For me these are humiliations. I’ll get to Turin. I can’t give up.”

Particularly interesting:

"My current condition is what it is, but I don’t understand because it seems to me that I feel well."

This seems like declining to me.

You don't decline overnight from the very best to complete ***.
Must be a series of reasons and it's time for a change of team and equip.
New team, new trainer, new doctors, fresh air and new motivations.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Nibali also talks about trying to hold his place or at least help win the team classification. If he has given up on rosa that might mean the last stages will be more of a podium fight than a rosa fight...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

[...]
“We’ll evaluate it well with the tests. For now I hope it’s not that even some things make me fear if might be a valid theory. I’m in difficulty because I don’t understand what’s happening,” said Nibali, who also explained why he had been so reluctant to speak to reporters following the past two stages.

“After the finish line, you’re waiting for me and I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t like looking bad like this. For me these are humiliations. I’ll get to Turin. I can’t give up.”

Particularly interesting:

"My current condition is what it is, but I don’t understand because it seems to me that I feel well."

This seems like declining to me.

You don't decline overnight from the very best to complete ****.
Must be a series of reasons and it's time for a change of team and equip.
New team, new trainer, new doctors, fresh air and new motivations.

he was already worse last year. might be that he's burned up early. similar case like hesjedal

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

[...]
“We’ll evaluate it well with the tests. For now I hope it’s not that even some things make me fear if might be a valid theory. I’m in difficulty because I don’t understand what’s happening,” said Nibali, who also explained why he had been so reluctant to speak to reporters following the past two stages.

“After the finish line, you’re waiting for me and I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t like looking bad like this. For me these are humiliations. I’ll get to Turin. I can’t give up.”

Particularly interesting:

"My current condition is what it is, but I don’t understand because it seems to me that I feel well."

This seems like declining to me.

You don't decline overnight from the very best to complete ****.
Must be a series of reasons and it's time for a change of team and equip.
New team, new trainer, new doctors, fresh air and new motivations.

He isn't complete **** so that is an overstatement, he sits in 4th place so he could very well be declining as he's still competitive but can't quite keep up with the leaders in this race. I do agree with the rest of the post as he hasn't looked happy at Astana for a little while now so maybe a change of environment next season could give him a new lease on life

 

[lenric]

No one declines like THAT in 2 years.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

No one declines like THAT in 2 years.

Andy Schleck ? Uran ? Hesjedal ? De Gendt ? Cunego ? And plenty more.