Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[KGB]

Re:

"I'm very straightforward: I never expect anybody to wait for me when I stop. Many times, I've fallen or punctured and just set off again," Nibali said, adding with a pinch of sarcasm: "I don't know, maybe we could distort cycling and have a referee who stops the race in front and behind ... I don't know what to say. This is my opinion, even if many people might attack me for saying this."
_O_ True racer.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-i-never-expect-anybody-to-wait-for-me-when-i-stop/

You are very straightforward Grande Vincenzo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuDsyfRMEoY

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

But if he want to try the double he need to start winning the Giro.
He's lucky that this year the general level is low and he's still in the fight.

Is it tho? Nibali has said he most definitely has been better than last year, like Slongo, but so far the level has been incredibly high on the climbs (Blockhaus, Oropa, it was before yesterday). Pinot's coach said the same, he is were he need to be but the others are simply better.

I think this level is better than 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016...

Nibali and Quintana could barely drop Pozzovivo yesterday, that's enough to percieve the real level of this year field.
I can't think that an almost 35 years lod Pozzovivo is stronger than ever and now he can stay with the bests in the queen stage of the Giro for the first time in his career.

Well, is not our problem that you don't know Pozzovivo! seriously!

I know very well Pozzovivo and he never stayed with the bests in an hard stage like yesterday's one.

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=102579
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=102613

And many other mountains. This guy is a climber. And commentators tend to ignore him on these stages because he is expected to be there.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

@Nirvana
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=139063&sub=divstages (2nd rider out of the peloton, since Quintana Hesjedal and Rolland started the climb with an advantage)
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=112666&sub=divstages (He didn't only finish in the group of the sixth best riders, he even managed to drop Scarponi just by setting a high pace on the last climb, but Scarponi could join the group again on the descent)
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=112685&sub=divstages (4th of the gc riders)
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=139060&sub=divstages (not only 3rd of the gc riders, but if I remember correctly he even was on the attack with Quintana and only lost four seconds on the last meters, like he does quite often)

Edit: I know this is the Nibali discussion thread but I hope it's okay to post this here since the discussion about this topic started here.

 

[SafeBet]

From top of Umbrail to the finish line:

Mikel Landa: 19'50"
Vincenzo Nibali: 19'40" (estimate)
Nairo Quintana: 19'52" (estimate)
Tom Dumoulin: 19'49"

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=139063&sub=divstages (2nd rider out of the peloton, since Quintana Hesjedal and Rolland started the climb with an advantage)
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=112666&sub=divstages (He didn't only finish in the group of the sixth best riders, he even managed to drop Scarponi just by setting a high pace on the last climb, but Scarponi could join the group again on the descent)
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=112685&sub=divstages (4th of the gc riders)
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=139060&sub=divstages (not only 3rd of the gc riders, but if I remember correctly he even was on the attack with Quintana and only lost four seconds on the last meters, like he does quite often)

Edit: I know this is the Nibali discussion thread but I hope it's okay to post this here since the discussion about this topic started here.

Sure it's okay. Pozzo is an underrated climber but a great person and I don't think he has a thread here.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

From top of Umbrail to the finish line:

Mikel Landa: 19'50"
Vincenzo Nibali: 19'40" (estimate)
Nairo Quintana: 19'52" (estimate)
Tom Dumoulin: 19'49"

Very even descending, Nibali a 1/2 class above the rest.

 

[bassano]

Re: Re:

From top of Umbrail to the finish line:

Mikel Landa: 19'50"
Vincenzo Nibali: 19'40" (estimate)
Nairo Quintana: 19'52" (estimate)
Tom Dumoulin: 19'49"

Very even descending, Nibali a 1/2 class above the rest.

Yeah but Stelvio was not enough hard descent, I am wonder how many he can put on real downhill like e.g. Monte Grappa in last stage if he will need to

 

[Winnen]

https://twitter.com/VelonCC/status/867356147392675841

This says TomD was faster....

I think they are both good descenders but the more technical it gets, the more the advantage switches to Nibali.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

Is it tho? Nibali has said he most definitely has been better than last year, like Slongo, but so far the level has been incredibly high on the climbs (Blockhaus, Oropa, it was before yesterday). Pinot's coach said the same, he is were he need to be but the others are simply better.

I think this level is better than 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016...

Nibali and Quintana could barely drop Pozzovivo yesterday, that's enough to percieve the real level of this year field.
I can't think that an almost 35 years lod Pozzovivo is stronger than ever and now he can stay with the bests in the queen stage of the Giro for the first time in his career.

Well, is not our problem that you don't know Pozzovivo! seriously!

I know very well Pozzovivo and he never stayed with the bests in an hard stage like yesterday's one.

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=102579
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=102613

And many other mountains. This guy is a climber. And commentators tend to ignore him on these stages because he is expected to be there.

There is no doubt that's a climber but he's never been a top climber, if Quintana can barely give ten seconds to him in a stage like yesterday means that Quintana is a lot below his top shape.
Look at his best results, are in stages with no multiple high or hard mountains like Sestola 2014, Alto Do Monte Da Groba 2013, Lago Laceno 2012.
As i said before in 2012 he lost two minutes and an half to Rodriguez on the Stelvio and wasn't hard raced with Rodriguez that attacked only near the summit (and that waiting probably cost him the Giro), in 2014 in the Val Martello stage he lost almost four minutes to Quintana (and was his best Giro), in 2013 he lost two minutes to Horner on the Angliru, in 2015 he lost four minutes and an half to Aru in Andorra finishing more than a minute behind a bad shape Quintana.
Would be very surprising if he suddenly become a top climber capable to battle at the same level with probably the best climber in the world in an high mountain stage at almost 35 years old.

 

[46&twoWheels]

Re: Re:

There is no doubt that's a climber but he's never been a top climber, if Quintana can barely give ten seconds to him in a stage like yesterday means that Quintana is a lot below his top shape.
Look at his best results, are in stages with no multiple high or hard mountains like Sestola 2014, Alto Do Monte Da Groba 2013, Lago Laceno 2012.
As i said before in 2012 he lost two minutes and an half to Rodriguez on the Stelvio and wasn't hard raced with Rodriguez that attacked only near the summit (and that waiting probably cost him the Giro), in 2014 in the Val Martello stage he lost almost four minutes to Quintana (and was his best Giro), in 2013 he lost two minutes to Horner on the Angliru, in 2015 he lost four minutes and an half to Aru in Andorra finishing more than a minute behind a bad shape Quintana.
Would be very surprising if he suddenly become a top climber capable to battle at the same level with probably the best climber in the world in an high mountain stage at almost 35 years old.

how convenient
When Quintana goes stronger (blockhaus) he's in top shape and Nibali is definitely worse. When he can't distance the others (elite) climbers he's not in good shape. I mean, it's not like there were 40 riders in Cima Coppi. Quintana,Nibali,Pozzo e Zaka. That's it.
Of course,he cannot ride every stage at the same level,a degree of variance must be taken for granted in a 3 weeks race. (both for Quintana that may stumble in a harder stage for his legs and for Pozzovivo that might give the best on the same stage)
That doesn't mean that the competition is not strong. Values are not set perfectly.
It's not like Quintana should always give Pozzovivo 1 minute x stage, every stage.That is too removed from reality Also,the lenght of the mountain,the rythm,the attacks, may determine if there's any separation and scrambling.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

There is no doubt that's a climber but he's never been a top climber, if Quintana can barely give ten seconds to him in a stage like yesterday means that Quintana is a lot below his top shape.
Look at his best results, are in stages with no multiple high or hard mountains like Sestola 2014, Alto Do Monte Da Groba 2013, Lago Laceno 2012.
As i said before in 2012 he lost two minutes and an half to Rodriguez on the Stelvio and wasn't hard raced with Rodriguez that attacked only near the summit (and that waiting probably cost him the Giro), in 2014 in the Val Martello stage he lost almost four minutes to Quintana (and was his best Giro), in 2013 he lost two minutes to Horner on the Angliru, in 2015 he lost four minutes and an half to Aru in Andorra finishing more than a minute behind a bad shape Quintana.
Would be very surprising if he suddenly become a top climber capable to battle at the same level with probably the best climber in the world in an high mountain stage at almost 35 years old.

how convenient
When Quintana goes stronger (blockhaus) he's in top shape and Nibali is definitely worse. When he can't distance the others (elite) climbers he's not in good shape. I mean, it's not like there were 40 riders in Cima Coppi. Quintana,Nibali,Pozzo e Zaka. That's it.
Of course,he cannot ride every stage at the same level,a degree of variance must be taken for granted in a 3 weeks race. (both for Quintana that may stumble in a harder stage for his legs and for Pozzovivo that might give the best on the same stage)
That doesn't mean that the competition is not strong. Values are not set perfectly.
It's not like Quintana should always give Pozzovivo 1 minute x stage, every stage.That is too removed from reality Also,the lenght of the mountain,the rythm,the attacks, may determine if there's any separation and scrambling.

I've never said that Quintana was in top shape on Blockhaus, after that stage i was already disappointed by his performance, it was the hardest climb of the Giro and Dumoulin only lost twenty second going up with his pace without following the acceleration and was already dropped at eight kms to the top.
I don't think his form it's changed significantly, Dumoulin without his problem probably wouldn't lose more than 20/30 sec, Nibali seems stronger only because longer climbs and high altitute favours him and on the Blockhaus made a mistake in trying to follow Quintana attacks that made him crack in the finale.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

There is no doubt that's a climber but he's never been a top climber, if Quintana can barely give ten seconds to him in a stage like yesterday means that Quintana is a lot below his top shape.
Look at his best results, are in stages with no multiple high or hard mountains like Sestola 2014, Alto Do Monte Da Groba 2013, Lago Laceno 2012.
As i said before in 2012 he lost two minutes and an half to Rodriguez on the Stelvio and wasn't hard raced with Rodriguez that attacked only near the summit (and that waiting probably cost him the Giro), in 2014 in the Val Martello stage he lost almost four minutes to Quintana (and was his best Giro), in 2013 he lost two minutes to Horner on the Angliru, in 2015 he lost four minutes and an half to Aru in Andorra finishing more than a minute behind a bad shape Quintana.
Would be very surprising if he suddenly become a top climber capable to battle at the same level with probably the best climber in the world in an high mountain stage at almost 35 years old.

how convenient
When Quintana goes stronger (blockhaus) he's in top shape and Nibali is definitely worse. When he can't distance the others (elite) climbers he's not in good shape. I mean, it's not like there were 40 riders in Cima Coppi. Quintana,Nibali,Pozzo e Zaka. That's it.
Of course,he cannot ride every stage at the same level,a degree of variance must be taken for granted in a 3 weeks race. (both for Quintana that may stumble in a harder stage for his legs and for Pozzovivo that might give the best on the same stage)
That doesn't mean that the competition is not strong. Values are not set perfectly.
It's not like Quintana should always give Pozzovivo 1 minute x stage, every stage.That is too removed from reality Also,the lenght of the mountain,the rythm,the attacks, may determine if there's any separation and scrambling.

I've never said that Quintana was in top shape on Blockhaus, after that stage i was already disappointed by his performance, it was the hardest climb of the Giro and Dumoulin only lost twenty second going up with his pace without following the acceleration and was already dropped at eight kms to the top.
I don't think his form it's changed significantly, Dumoulin without his problem probably wouldn't lose more than 20/30 sec, Nibali seems stronger only because longer climbs and high altitute favours him and on the Blockhaus made a mistake in trying to follow Quintana attacks that made him crack in the finale.

Do you even go through the data up the climbs?
What Quintana showed on Blockhaus was his best performance climbing wise till date. What do you want him to do? 7 W/Kg for an Hour? :lol:
Yes, the field has become more competitive and many riders have reached a much higher level and are close to Quintana/Froome level of climbing. Doesn't mean they have declined.

 

[bassano]

Why you even react for such Nirvana posts, you can´t clearly explain to him that Quintana is not able to put minute on every rider on every hard stage and it is not because of bad performance
It is like if you want to explain to Portugal11, that if Nibali won 4 GT´s and did podium on another several ones, it can not be only due to luck, it is just waste of time and in this case is even little offtopic, pozzovivo always have been competitive in Giro, ofc he is not top GC rider but always among best and always you must count with him
just hope that today we will see nice action in dolomiti and Quintana with Nibali iwll not wait for last uphill to do serious attack

 

[Netserk]

This will be appropriate later today

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

This will be appropriate later today

Much easier this year. Last time before stage 18 he was 4:43 down.

 

[Carols]

This could be another Shark Bite day! Fingers crossed!

 

[SafeBet]

Sorry, not happening.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Sorry, not happening.

It ain't over till it's over.

 

[Forever The Best]

All the hype after the Bormio stage and Nibali struggling today
Still, never say never, though his chances are around %1.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

At least a clearly better starting position before the last two mountain stages than last year

 

[yaco]

Posted that stage 18 would show if Nibali has it in this Giro - It appears not.

 

[DanielSong39]

Not this year.

 

[Brullnux]

Unless if something major happens, he won't win. He tried, but dumoulin is just too strong. He could still beat Quintana though

 

[Forever The Best]

Dumoulin looked a lil' bit arrogant today to me. Anyways hoping that Nibbles turns the race all over its head in the last 2 stages.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

I'm a bit worried about tomorrows mtf. He looked really bad today and was lucky the race didn't explode on the last climb. He could lose way over a minute if Piancavallo is raced hard.

That said, it's not over till it's over. Never write off Nibali