• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Vino »»»»»»»» Radioshack

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Mar 18, 2009
775
0
0
Visit site
the rule is: first offense, two years off, second offense, lifetime ban. Vino was caught once. He served his time, like Millar, Basso, etc. None of us has any say about his place in the peloton. He has followed the rules and served his time. Shut up.

If AC and Vino had pulled over to trade bikes at the end of a stage where everyone was going full-tilt, they both would have lost even more time. You think they had no idea of the dynamics of the race they were in? I'm glad you know so much more than either of them did. It'll be awesome to watch you win the the 2011 Tour.
 
Jul 11, 2009
791
0
0
Visit site
mowie133 said:
trust gerrans nicest guy you were meet :)

Putting aside the fact that you are a raving lunatic for a second. Gerrans is a nice guy (sometimes, ones of his ex girlfriends would tell you otherwise), as is, Jan, Zabel. I didn't much like Jens.

BUT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DOPING


Nice guys dope (Miller, Jan, ect) 'Bad' guys dope (Ricco, Vino).

Professional sports = dope.
 
Jun 22, 2010
176
0
0
Visit site
53 x 11 said:
Putting aside the fact that you are a raving lunatic for a second. Gerrans is a nice guy (sometimes, ones of his ex girlfriends would tell you otherwise), as is, Jan, Zabel. I didn't much like Jens.

BUT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DOPING


Nice guys dope (Miller, Jan, ect) 'Bad' guys dope (Ricco, Vino).

Professional sports = dope.

:confused::confused: um speaking of dope heads we have a winner here!!!!! get back on the pipe mate,
 
Aug 16, 2009
600
0
0
Visit site
mowie133 said:
:confused::confused: um speaking of dope heads we have a winner here!!!!! get back on the pipe mate,

nice guys dont dope. Lance cures cancer and that is why we all know he would never do such things only evil fiends like vino basso and other foriegn riders from continents like spain would do nasty dope.

vino should be strung up by his snakeskin boots and burned or something else bad and all his money should be given to cleen riders like Lance.

EDIT: sorry Mr and Mrs Moderator for mentioning nasty doping in Prog-Racing forum but he started it. I still want to be a moderator if youll let me in.
 
Apr 19, 2009
278
0
0
Visit site
WonderLance said:
nice guys dont dope. Lance cures cancer and that is why we all know he would never do such things only evil fiends like vino basso and other foriegn riders from continents like spain would do nasty dope.

vino should be strung up by his snakeskin boots and burned or something else bad and all his money should be given to cleen riders like Lance.

EDIT: sorry Mr and Mrs Moderator for mentioning nasty doping in Prog-Racing forum but he started it. I still want to be a moderator if youll let me in.

da plane da plane, welcome my guests to Fantasy Island.
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
Visit site
WonderLance said:
nice guys dont dope. Lance cures cancer and that is why we all know he would never do such things only evil fiends like vino basso and other foriegn riders from continents like spain would do nasty dope.

vino should be strung up by his snakeskin boots and burned or something else bad and all his money should be given to cleen riders like Lance.

EDIT: sorry Mr and Mrs Moderator for mentioning nasty doping in Prog-Racing forum but he started it. I still want to be a moderator if youll let me in.[/QUOTE]

Don't ask for a look behind the velvet curtain WL. It's a dark place fraught with danger. Mowie needs someone to talk to on this side and you keep it fun.
 
Aug 16, 2009
600
0
0
Visit site
Oldman said:
WonderLance said:
nice guys dont dope. Lance cures cancer and that is why we all know he would never do such things only evil fiends like vino basso and other foriegn riders from continents like spain would do nasty dope.

vino should be strung up by his snakeskin boots and burned or something else bad and all his money should be given to cleen riders like Lance.

EDIT: sorry Mr and Mrs Moderator for mentioning nasty doping in Prog-Racing forum but he started it. I still want to be a moderator if youll let me in.

Don't ask for a look behind the velvet curtain WL. It's a dark place fraught with danger. Mowie needs someone to talk to on this side and you keep it fun.

I had a girlfriend once who had velvet curtains but Im not sure what that has to do with this forum thank you very much.

I think that the force is strong in me and this forum needs my special skills at being able to call out the pro-cancer trolls. while Mr and Mrs moderator are very good most times they let people who dont like lance and evens nasly things , like he bangs the cast of full house or he talks like his little dog is biting his testicles and this is where i can help.

I have lots of post and am a very good spelller and a nice guy, you would like me if you got to know me, Im not spanish.
 
Jun 9, 2010
2,007
0
0
Visit site
mmmmm here is a pretty big discussion...

IMHO the rules are good as they are... if you get caught doping well take this two pills called "two years out from racing"... if you get caught doping again well take this box of pills called "Ban FOREVER"... Vino and Basso (just to say names that are in the palestra right now cuz Basso won Il Giro and Vino Liege-Bastogne-Liege) were caught in doping... well they got their first pills "two years out from racing"... fine the justice was done... they finished their pills so now they can run... I think that this is pretty fair no?

you people who said "THEY SHOULD BE BAN FOREVER!!!! THEY SHOULD BE BURNING IN THE PILE!!!! ASDKMFLASKJDFÑASKDJFOÑASDIFLASDJKFLASKDJF" and other things... are crazy... that kind of comments reminds me the Inquisition cuz you sound exactly like that people... give me a break... everybody needs a second oportunity (of course if you take your "pills") and they have it... now just see the spectacle that they have gave... Basso won Il Giro... he did it great in the Zoncolan... Vino won the Liege-Bastogne-Liege with an amazing attack and also did it great in Il giro and won the Tirreno-Adriatico BTW... that is spectacle! they are getting the redemption from the fans little by little and that is nice but is not easy... Vino was booed when he finished the 3rd stage after the pave... what is cycling? SPECTACLE... and they are giving it... so have fun and stop talking BS... :rolleyes:
 
May 9, 2009
638
0
0
Visit site
mowie133 said:
once a cheat always a cheat!!!

Please provide PROOF of your statement.

Eg. Vino gets caught doping = cheat = always a cheat = doping his very first day back racing and every single subsequent day/race.

Again, please provide your PROOF.

Thanks.
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
Visit site
WonderLance said:
I had a girlfriend once who had velvet curtains but Im not sure what that has to do with this forum thank you very much.

I think that the force is strong in me and this forum needs my special skills at being able to call out the pro-cancer trolls. while Mr and Mrs moderator are very good most times they let people who dont like lance and evens nasly things , like he bangs the cast of full house or he talks like his little dog is biting his testicles and this is where i can help.

I have lots of post and am a very good spelller and a nice guy, you would like me if you got to know me, Im not spanish.

Looking forward to the time we meet. In the interim, watch out for small,snappy dogs.
 
Jul 23, 2009
2,891
1
0
Visit site
2wc04nq.gif
 
Jul 8, 2010
10
0
0
Visit site
I want to thank a certain poster who has a hard-on for Vino to prompt me to sign up. Chill dude, it's a cycling forum where we all have the same interest in this year's TDF. The powers that be allowed Vino in so let's focus on the daily excitement.
 
ingsve said:
Exactly...they shouldn't...

Let me give you some advice. None of them should be racing the Tour according to your logic.

If you want to see a clean race, you have to turn off the TV. If you don't then you are the hypocrite.

It is clear that you come from some moralistic culture, for which the theory of punishment, not the possibility of "divine mercy," is the prefered means to cope with those who have commited crimes. I hope you never have to be brought to task for your own skeletons in the closet.

The only case presently that has the chance to really make an impact right now in significantly altering the culture, has to do with one of those riders who has "never tested positive" but continues to be a hero for many.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if among those fanboys were yourself.
 
ingsve said:
Exactly...they shouldn't...

Let me give you some advice. None of them should be racing the Tour according to your logic.

If you want to see a clean race, you have to turn off the TV. If you don't then you are the hypocrite.

It is clear that you come from some moralistic culture, for which the theory of punishment, not the possibility of "divine mercy," is the prefered means to cope with those who have commited crimes. I hope you never have to be brought to task for your own skeletons in the closet.

The only case presently that has the chance to really make an impact right now in significantly altering the culture, has to do with one of those riders who has "never tested positive" but who not only was welcomed in the race with opened arms, but continues to be a hero for many.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if among those fanboys were yourself.
 
rhubroma said:
Let me give you some advice. None of them should be racing the Tour according to your logic.

And I would be fine with that if you can prove that all riders were cheating. The problem is that without proof it's very hard to do that so we can only focus on those that we can prove have done wrong. If we could prove that a few hundred of todays professional riders had cheated then I would be fine with them not racing because there are lots of amateur riders that would fill the spots in professional teams if the places were available.

rhubroma said:
It is clear that you come from some moralistic culture, for which the theory of punishment, not the possibility of "divine mercy," is the prefered means to cope with those who have commited crimes. I hope you never have to be brought to task for your own skeletons in the closet.

You're right in that I don't believe in any sort of divine mercy. If we want justice then we need to make sure that justice is served ourselves as a society. I believe that everyone should take responsibility for what they have done and take the consequences for those actions if those actions are considered wrong by society. Vino has not taken responsibility for what he has done and neither has Basso.

People keep saying that riders have served their time and equates it with criminals having served their sentence. There is a major difference however. Returning to society to live ones life is a right of any person but being a professional athlete is not a right, it's a privilege. There are things you can do to lose that privilege and abusing the trust of everyone around you by cheating is such a thing. If someone embezzle from their job then they have given up their privilege of working with other peoples money.

rhubroma said:
The only case presently that has the chance to really make an impact right now in significantly altering the culture, has to do with one of those riders who has "never tested positive" but who not only was welcomed in the race with opened arms, but continues to be a hero for many.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if among those fanboys were yourself.

I don't worship at the altar of any any rider clean or dirty. I would love for any rider that is currently getting away with cheating to get caught no matter how big and popular they are. In fact the bigger and more popular they are the better. If Armstrong, Contador, Schlecks, Cancellara etc. gets caught cheating I would love it. But without any proof I can't judge anyone.
 
ingsve said:
And I would be fine with that if you can prove that all riders were cheating. The problem is that without proof it's very hard to do that so we can only focus on those that we can prove have done wrong. If we could prove that a few hundred of todays professional riders had cheated then I would be fine with them not racing because there are lots of amateur riders that would fill the spots in professional teams if the places were available.



You're right in that I don't believe in any sort of divine mercy.
If we want justice then we need to make sure that justice is served ourselves as a society. I believe that everyone should take responsibility for what they have done and take the consequences for those actions if those actions are considered wrong by society. Vino has not taken responsibility for what he has done and neither has Basso.

People keep saying that riders have served their time and equates it with criminals having served their sentence. There is a major difference however. Returning to society to live ones life is a right of any person but being a professional athlete is not a right, it's a privilege. There are things you can do to lose that privilege and abusing the trust of everyone around you by cheating is such a thing. If someone embezzle from their job then they have given up their privilege of working with other peoples money.



I don't worship at the altar of any any rider clean or dirty. I would love for any rider that is currently getting away with cheating to get caught no matter how big and popular they are. In fact the bigger and more popular they are the better. If Armstrong, Contador, Schlecks, Cancellara etc. gets caught cheating I would love it. But without any proof I can't judge anyone.

Well the proof is in the pudding junior. What a naive bunch of drivel. As if we hadn't had all the information to assume how the cycling game is played. If you think that all of the riders of the Tour, at some point in their career, have not engagind in illicit practices then you really can be manipulated by your government sir.

Yours is that typical wholesome, moralistic approach that is prevelant among the anglo-protestant societies, who find grave injustices among the individual wrong-doers, but do not see the colossal lack of social justice on a global scale that such societies have created since the industrial period.

And let me let you in on something, I don't believe in "divine mercy" either, it was simply a metaphor for explaining how in the non anglo-protestant societies there is less of an absolutist emphasis on punitive measures and greater emphasis on the posibility of redemption.

Neither way has ever led to a more just world, the former however takes satisfaction only in vengence, the latter in the posibility at least of a healthy reabilitation. And it is less moralistic, something which I despise, because most of the moralists out there are the worst type of hypocrits. Since everyone has a skeleton or two in his or her closet, I find the less rigid stance, for the hypocricy reason, infinitly more dignified.
 
Apr 19, 2010
1,112
0
0
Visit site
Taking PEDs in Pro Cycling (and infact any sport) is like having a strong cup of coffee before work, the sooner people realize this the more they will enjoy the cartoon that is Pro Sports. Vino is awesome.


CRUSH THEM LIKE GOAT DUMPLINGS.
 
rhubroma said:
Well the proof is in the pudding junior. What a naive bunch of drivel. As if we hadn't had all the information to assume how the cycling game is played. If you think that all of the riders of the Tour, at some point in their career, have not engagind in illicit practices then you really can be manipulated by your government sir.

There is a huge and very important difference between having a strong suspicion about something and actually having proof. I don't act on hunches or guesses in non-trivial situations.

rhubroma said:
Yours is that typical wholesome, moralistic approach that is prevelant among the anglo-protestant societies, who find grave injustices among the individual wrong-doers, but do not see the colossal lack of social justice on a global scale that such societies have created since the industrial period.

I think you are generalising my stance into something I do not fully believe. I'm not an ideologue and I don't apply the same rules to all areas of society. I try to treat all areas as isolated instances and can often apply completely different standards in different areas of life if that's what is needed given the local context. The context here is that we have a sport that has a huge problem with doping and our approach needs to be such that we do the best we can to resolve that problem and right now "forgive and forget" is not helping the issue.

rhubroma said:
And let me let you in on something, I don't believe in "divine mercy" either, it was simply a metaphor for explaining how in the non anglo-protestant societies there is less of an absolutist emphasis on punitive measures and greater emphasis on the posibility of redemption.

I too believe in redemption but in cycling there are very few people who have done anything to deserve redemption. I would be much more likely to welcome Kohl or Landis (Well, if Landis has fessed up right away instead of waiting four years) back into the peloton than Basso and Vino or other riders who vehemently deny cheating even after they are caught or who have done nothing to help those who are fighting doping.
 
I try to stay out of this arguement about baned riders returning fro msuspensions to ride, especially since my favorite rider is Vino, but I have to comment now.

So Vino has to be assumed to be doping now because he doped before?? ok since the comparision has been made to a prisoner being given the right to come back to life lets do another comparision.

Prisoner has been arrested and served his time for the use of marijuana (Here in the US its illegal). So after his release, any time a cop sees him, he should be arrested on the spot because since he has been convicted of smoking pot before, then it should be assumed that he has smoked it again after getting out. That is the same as every rider that has been suspended for doping comes back from the suspension and its assumed that currently he is doping.

Is it understandable why people think this? Yes I can understand, thus why we have test. The police can have the above mentioned prisoner give a urine test, and it will comeback + or -, and this will give us the answer. Same for the rider, since his return from suspension, the last year Vino has given approx. 30 tests and all of them has returned negative. Thus, both the prisoner and Vino have the right to continue on with life/racing.


What to me is the reason why the media has ruined society is the fact someone says its a privilege to be a professional athlete. Its also a privilege to be a doctor. Guess what they both are?? A job, both the rider and a doctor have to be hired to perform the skills of said job.

The doctor could have been fired from previous jobs due to insubordination, being late to the job, maybe made a mistake that led to his firing. His next potential employer has the right to decide not to hire him, or they may decide that this doctor is good enough and his history isn't enough of a deterent that they still want to hire him. That is the right of the company to make their decision as long as he has his medical license.

Instead of using Vino, because of his connection to the Astana squad, lets use Basso. Basso approached Liquigas and said here is what I have produced, here is what I have shown in my training, I would like to be hired because I think I can perform for your squad. The team will look at his suspension, probably have their doctors check out his values and run test. If they think he is currently clean, and they think he will be an asset, they will hire him. As long as is racing license is intact, he has the right to go to his job.

I find we often make professional athletes more then what they are. Yes they are more visible to the public, they are an image. This is why they are paid more. They are paid on a specific skill. Same as a doctor makes tons ore then a cashier, because to be a doctor you have to have the skills and and knowledge to perform risky operations and diagnosis correctly. When you break it down though, they are doing what everyone in society does, they are going to work, and earning a paycheck.
 
Carl0880 said:
What to me is the reason why the media has ruined society is the fact someone says its a privilege to be a professional athlete. Its also a privilege to be a doctor. Guess what they both are?? A job, both the rider and a doctor have to be hired to perform the skills of said job.

The doctor could have been fired from previous jobs due to insubordination, being late to the job, maybe made a mistake that led to his firing. His next potential employer has the right to decide not to hire him, or they may decide that this doctor is good enough and his history isn't enough of a deterent that they still want to hire him. That is the right of the company to make their decision as long as he has his medical license.

Instead of using Vino, because of his connection to the Astana squad, lets use Basso. Basso approached Liquigas and said here is what I have produced, here is what I have shown in my training, I would like to be hired because I think I can perform for your squad. The team will look at his suspension, probably have their doctors check out his values and run test. If they think he is currently clean, and they think he will be an asset, they will hire him. As long as is racing license is intact, he has the right to go to his job.

I find we often make professional athletes more then what they are. Yes they are more visible to the public, they are an image. This is why they are paid more. They are paid on a specific skill. Same as a doctor makes tons ore then a cashier, because to be a doctor you have to have the skills and and knowledge to perform risky operations and diagnosis correctly. When you break it down though, they are doing what everyone in society does, they are going to work, and earning a paycheck.

You are sort of missing the point when you focus on the rider. Of course the rider wants a job and should have the right to seek employment even as a cyclist. Noone should deny him that right. The issue here is rather with the teams. While they do have the legal right to hire anyone they want I don't think they should because it sends the wrong message and is making it harder to fight doping. I want everyone involved in the sport to have a responsibility to make the sport clean and a lot of teams are not living up to that responsibility. The same can be said of some fans but their impact is not as direct which makes it a little more grey area.
 
mowie133 said:
:rolleyes::rolleyes: troll.....your spelling is oh so bad.....cheers he gets??? the crowd would cheer me on a bike...he is not the most popular rider,just ask the riders...people like you are so out of touched,he got caught taking drugs!!! an in my country that is a crime you troll..he brings nothing to the sport other then being a dope..

If you look at the top 5 for the gc in the Tour during let's say 2000 to 2005, how many of those eventually were found to have been "enhanced"? Additionally the dominant rider during that period had samples that were tested and found to have been positive. It's likely that many others skated by undetected. Yes Vino cheated. He served his time and under the regulations that exist he has the right to return and compete. He appears to be the same aggressive rider he was prior to his suspension, that hasn't changed. He does bring the same excitement to the sport that he brought before. Sport is entertainment and Vino is an exciting rider.
 
ingsve said:
You are sort of missing the point when you focus on the rider. Of course the rider wants a job and should have the right to seek employment even as a cyclist. Noone should deny him that right. The issue here is rather with the teams. While they do have the legal right to hire anyone they want I don't think they should because it sends the wrong message and is making it harder to fight doping. I want everyone involved in the sport to have a responsibility to make the sport clean and a lot of teams are not living up to that responsibility. The same can be said of some fans but their impact is not as direct which makes it a little more grey area.


IN a perfect world, I understand your point. The world isn't run from the heart, its run by the almighty dollar. This is where fans do come into play. If you dislike Basso, then fans need to stop buying the Liquigas apparel, the Cannondale bikes (The bike provider for them), and all other sponsors connected to his team. When these companies see sales fall and notice its due to have a rider with a history, then they will probably avoid other riders with similiar history because they don't want sales to drop again.

They signed him because it brings them the money they want. This is why the big riders get more money then the domestiques. They usually have a global appeal and following that will come and buy the products and apparel of the new team. With Radioshack sponsoring a team with Lance as its main guy, I read their sales this year in the global market are up approx 10 percent in the first quarter. Thats why he can command his salary, because he makes these companies money.

There are some teams that have decided they are willing to not make as much money to keep a personal ethics to the team. Those are few and far between. Until the risks outweighs the rewards for signing these riders, they will always find a place to ride for.