Vino bought the 2010 LBL?

[BroDeal]

Nothing technical about it - it is against the rules.

While I am perfectly aware that it goes on, it does not mean it should be an acceptable practicably.

It's like F1 banning team orders. It ignores the realities of the sport. Who is going to work hard to make it to the line when a fellow escapee is a better sprinter?

Vino should deny the emails are real. How will anyone prove that they are? It's not like the UCI or discplinary agencies have subpoena power.

 

[Kwibus]

Seriously, you "people" need to get over yourselves, as if you think pro cycling should aspire to be an idealized version of the Catholic Church. How many of you would be so upset if it was an athlete other than Vino I don't know, but I hope that you'll be aiding Jeff Novitzky as he researches the entire history of the f^cking sport to punish every instance where money or favors changed hands in a race to some end.

You're ridiculous.

I know it's impossible and I know cheating in whatever way will always happen.
That doesn't mean that I don't want the sport to be entirely clean and fair.

 

[just some guy]

I think you guys are missing a major point here.

As there is huge money in Gambling this coming out opened a can of worms here that may not be closed.

 

[joe_papp]

*** edied by mod ***

 

[Angliru]

The only way i can see Kolobnev selling LBL for just 100k is that he was tired and didnt believe in his chances anymore, so he basically offered his help for 100k and not the win.

I agree with this scenario. He knew he was cooked, hanging on for dear life, and like a gift from heaven he's offered 100k to not contest the sprint/attack when he knew he wouldn't have the legs anyway. To simply know that you have a chance at winning LBL, which would be the biggest win of his career, and to take the money instead of the win seems unlikely for a rider that hasn't had huge successes up to that point.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's like F1 banning team orders. It ignores the realities of the sport. Who is going to work hard to make it to the line when a fellow escapee is a better sprinter?

Vino should deny the emails are real. How will anyone prove that they are? It's not like the UCI or discplinary agencies have subpoena power.

Kolobnev is the better sprinter of the two

 

[hrotha]

How many of you would be so upset if it was an athlete other than Vino I don't know

Are you suggesting people here don't like Vino?

Seriously?

 

[BroDeal]

Kolobnev is the better sprinter of the two

I am talking about the general case. There are often situations where riders have a low probability of winning compared to their fellow break members.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Are you serious? If so, be careful that you don't get a nose bleed from altitude up there on your high horse.

I hope you'll be leading the charge to indict dozens of "champion" cyclists, teams and directors who've exchanged cash or favors to support the interests of another in a tactical situation. I'm sure any Scottish readers here would be pleased if you made the first target of your righteous fury the Spanish and Colombians who helped each other to defeat Robert Millar in the 1985 Vuelta (http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/5/11/2162334/VueltaAEspana1985).



It IS an "acceptable practicably."

Seriously, you "people" need to get over yourselves, as if you think pro cycling should aspire to be an idealized version of the Catholic Church. How many of you would be so upset if it was an athlete other than Vino I don't know, but I hope that you'll be aiding Jeff Novitzky as he researches the entire history of the f^cking sport to punish every instance where money or favors changed hands in a race to some end.

You're ridiculous.

Joe - I think it is unacceptable for all riders (to pay someone to lose) - you are the one who appears upset because its Vino.

 

[El Pistolero]

I am talking about the general case. There are often situations where riders have a low probability of winning compared to their fellow break members.

Yeah, but that's a totally different situation than the one here now. Especially if you read the emails between Kolobnev and Vinokourov.

What you're talking about is like Devenys did for Andy Schleck this year at the Tour. I also complained about that, but it's not half as bad as this.

 

[BroDeal]

Joe - I think it is unacceptable for all riders (to pay someone to lose) -

Think of it as paying someone to help you win.

 

[BroDeal]

Yeah, but that's a totally different situation than the one here now. Especially if you read the emails between Kolobnev and Vinokourov.

What you're talking about is like Devenys did for Andy Schleck this year at the Tour. I also complained about that, but it's not half as bad as this.

But the discussion has switched from shock that Vino paid Kolobnev to a fairy tale view of the sport where no agreements are made.

 

[ElChingon]

Again, unless the rider who received the money/pay-off spills the beans this is a moot point for all, and based on past history its not going to happen. They can track all the money in the world and they will not be able to tie the two together without one of the two admitting to it. Money exchanging hands/accounts without a receipt or merchandise is a common practice on Earth and will continue to happen.

The small details associated with why it was transfered is what is needed and unless its blackmail or something un-agreed upon we'll never know why they exchanged the money. End of story for that newspaper and the story gets piled on the N number of similar accusations throughout history, its a big pile as well.

 

[joe_papp]

Joe - I think it is unacceptable for all riders (to pay someone to lose) - you are the one who appears upset because its Vino.

Just wondering, is this the first time you've expressed your feelings in public? Where were you when Virenque was buying a stage win from Ullrich?

Regardless, you live in a fantasy land if you actually think that it's realistic to expect riders NOT to enter into these kind of discussions - which are ultimately about buying/selling help, since no one victory is predetermined such that one rider can definitively sell it to another.

I don't know some politically-correct way to say it, and I'm not trying to make an enemy...but your thinking couldn't be further from the reality of pro cycling and it makes me wonder how much you actually understand about the sport as it's practiced in real life.

 

[hrotha]

Just wondering, is this the first time you've expressed your feelings in public? Where were you when Virenque was buying a stage win from Ullrich?

Regardless, you live in a fantasy land if you actually think that it's realistic to expect riders NOT to enter into these kind of discussions - which are ultimately about buying/selling help, since no one victory is predetermined such that one rider can definitively sell it to another.

I don't know some politically-correct way to say it, and I'm not trying to make an enemy...but your thinking couldn't be further from the reality of pro cycling and it makes me wonder how much you actually understand about the sport as it's practiced in real life.

I fail to see how El Pistrollero's post wasn't relevant then.

 

[Christian]

What you're talking about is like Devenys did for Andy Schleck this year at the Tour. I also complained about that, but it's not half as bad as this.

Lol what about Sanchez and the entire Euskaltel riding for Conti

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Just wondering, is this the first time you've expressed your feelings in public? Where were you when Virenque was buying a stage win from Ullrich?

If there was a forum then I would have been equally as vocal.

I know that I have highlighted deals being done on this forum before.

Regardless, you live in a fantasy land if you actually think that it's realistic to expect riders NOT to enter into these kind of discussions - which are ultimately about buying/selling help, since no one victory is predetermined such that one rider can definitively sell it to another.

Big difference from an agreement to race then for an agreement to throw a race.

I don't know some politically-correct way to say it, and I'm not trying to make an enemy...but your thinking couldn't be further from the reality of pro cycling and it makes me wonder how much you actually understand about the sport as it's practiced in real life.

I already acknowledged that it is a common practice.
So you can be as politically incorrect as you wish.

 

[thehog]

Perfect the UCI to save the day:


The International Cycling Union (UCI) has confirmed that it is seeking evidence from the Swiss magazine l’Illustré, which published allegations that Alexandre Vinokourov (Astana) paid rival Alexandr Kolobnev (Katusha) to let him win Liège-Bastogne-Liège in April 2010. In a statement issued this afternoon, the sport’s governing body confirmed that it wants to establish the facts before considering possible action over the matter.

“Further to the information published today in the Swiss magazine « L’Illustré » concerning alleged misconduct at the 2010 Liège-Bastogne-Liège race,” the statement reads, “the UCI has asked that the magazine provide the UCI with any evidence which would allow the facts to be clearly established. Once the situation has been evaluated the UCI will decide, in accordance with the UCI Rules, whether any measures need to be taken. Until the conclusion of this phase of the investigation, the UCI will make no further comments on this matter.”


http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...kourov-bribery-allegations.aspx#ixzz1fsOLdy00

 

[thehog]

If there was a forum then I would have been equally as vocal.

I know that I have highlighted deals being done on this forum before.


Big difference from an agreement to race then for an agreement to throw a race.



I already acknowledged that it is a common practice.
So you can be as politically incorrect as you wish.

Joe don't worry about him. He tries this stuff on me... he's an internet boy stuck in his Mom's house.

 

[El Pistolero]

Lol what about Sanchez and the entire Euskaltel riding for Conti

Working together for a common goal is something different. Besides, if it wasn't for Samuel Sanchez Contador would have won on Alpe dhuez

But keep believing Sanchez rode for Contador

 

[Polish]

Taylor Phinney will be disappointed
You can hardly blame him. It IS disappointng you know.
Has he tweeted yet?

 

[Anonymous]

Vino=doper=paying to win monuments=great champion.

Go figure.

 

[El Pistolero]

Vino=doper=paying to win monuments=great champion.

Go figure.

Come to think about it, his Amstel Gold Race victory is also shrouded in controversy

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But the discussion has switched from shock that Vino paid Kolobnev to a fairy tale view of the sport where no agreements are made.

Has it?
Maybe - the only shocks for me in this case are that it was Vino buying out Kolobnev, I would have expected it to be the other way around - and unlike many here, I was surprised at how much Vino was prepared to offer.
(Although I think the price Basso was looking for off Simoni for a Giro stage was in €70,000)

 

[Kwibus]

Lol what about Sanchez and the entire Euskaltel riding for Conti

Sanchez riding for Contador is such BS. Sanchez had as much reason to ride hard as Contador had on the moments they rode together.