Voeckler doping?

[Nick C.]

The 2011 Tour was a Tough One.
Anniversary Of The Alpes.

Yet Clean Tommy V rode faster than Lance in 2000.
An average speed that was faster than any of Big Migs Victories.
Faster than Claudio Chiappucci or Tony Rominger.
Faster than Richard Virenque or Evgeni Berzin.
Faster than Gianni Bugno or Piotr Ugrumov.
Faster than Luc Leblanc or Alex Zülle

A clean Tommy V rode faster than all those guys.
Most of the Top10 in the 2011 Tour rode faster as a matter of fact.
Clean Teams. Clean Riders. Faster than the 90's.

That is so cool.
The Golden Age is dawning.

I thought the Alpe d' Huez times were minutes slower? Are you talking speed of the entire TDF?

 

[The Hitch]

I thought the Alpe d' Huez times were minutes slower? Are you talking speed of the entire TDF?

Yeah i think hes talking overall which can be misleading.

The riders might go 3 even 4 minutes slower up Alpe, which is a big difference.

But with the number of pan flat stages, and their length, a flat stage needs to only go 1km/h faster than a flat stage in 2000, to already offset that advantage.

50km/h vs 51km/h isnt such big a difference. Some stages with the right win could be 5km/h faster than a similar stage in 2000.

So with enough flat stages, going only slightly faster than 2000, you already manage to offset the gaps in times on all mountain stages.

Though of course this years course might have been harder than 2000. I dont know what 2000 was like but this years was supposed to be superhard, in which case maybe they went just so much faster on all the flatter sections.

 

[Race Radio]

I thought the Alpe d' Huez times were minutes slower? Are you talking speed of the entire TDF?

Polish is talking about the downhill sections. Tommy V is a great descender.....

 

[Polish]

I thought the Alpe d' Huez times were minutes slower? Are you talking speed of the entire TDF?

I am talking about the increasing speeds for the entire Tour
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14288

The Alpe is the last stronghold of the "Transformationists".
But a single climb does not a faster Tour make.
A single climb of the Alpe does not determine the winner of a Tour.

On average, clean 2011 riders climb faster, TT faster, and ride on the flats faster than their brothers from the 90's.

Improvements in Technology and Training more of an impact than doping.
Its obvious.

And why is the Wiki entry for Alpe d'huez wrong?
Why is Greg LeMond listed as the 33rd fastest time?
There were 30+ clean riders who rode up the Alpe faster this year alone.
Greg is no longer in the Top 100 probably.

"Look at the Alpe!" is a bunch of bolagna.
Sir Marco the Climber and Lance TTing will be hard to top, sure.
But averaging all the climbs in a Tour - modern riders are faster I bet.
The overall numbers do not lie.

The Golden Age is Dawning.
Clean Riders and Clean Teams faster than ever.
Or if they are not clean, at least they are not doped to the gills on EPO.
Modern riders are faster than the 90's EPO gang.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Polish, just in case you wonder about the relative silence in the clinic and the LA-thread in last 2 days - in case you feel alone - you'll find our friends in RS-Leopard thread in the racingforum. On their mission.
They found a Trojan horse to escape from the clinic ones again. lol

Have to go now. You have to take over the nightshift.

btw, Voeckler is of course cleaner than clean. He is so symphatic.
Anyone who doubts this ?

 

[mb2612]

I am talking about the increasing speeds for the entire Tour
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14288

The Alpe is the last stronghold of the "Transformationists".
But a single climb does not a faster Tour make.
A single climb of the Alpe does not determine the winner of a Tour.

On average, clean 2011 riders climb faster, TT faster, and ride on the flats faster than their brothers from the 90's.

Improvements in Technology and Training more of an impact than doping.
Its obvious.

And why is the Wiki entry for Alpe d'huez wrong?
Why is Greg LeMond listed as the 33rd fastest time?
There were 30+ clean riders who rode up the Alpe faster this year alone.
Greg is no longer in the Top 100 probably.

"Look at the Alpe!" is a bunch of bolagna.
Sir Marco the Climber and Lance TTing will be hard to top, sure.
But averaging all the climbs in a Tour - modern riders are faster I bet.
The overall numbers do not lie.

The Golden Age is Dawning.
Clean Riders and Clean Teams faster than ever.
Or if they are not clean, at least they are not doped to the gills on EPO.
Modern riders are faster than the 90's EPO gang.

I'm new here so can someone confirm if you are trolling, or just clueless?

 

[Polish]

I'm new here so can someone confirm if you are trolling, or just clueless?

Oh, so you are calling people "trolls" and/or "clueless".

You may be new here, but you will fit right in lol.
Anyway, welcome to the clinic.

And Tommy V raced up the Alpe this year FASTER than LeMond/Hinault.
Why isn't Tommy V listed ahead of them on the WIKI page?
40-50 other clean ridwers need to be listed ahead of LeMond/Hinault too.
Its Inspiring.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm new here so can someone confirm if you are trolling, or just clueless?

Bingo

See Polish it is not very hard to see what you are up to. Even new guys get it straight away.

 

[this_is_edie]

I'm new here so can someone confirm if you are trolling, or just clueless?

the ignore list is your friend

 

[webvan]

I was reading an article on Longo's 3 missed tests and there was a comment below the article saying that Voeckler had missed 2, anyone know if there is any substance to that comment?

 

[happychappy]

any substance to that comment?

The way he was sprinting uphill in July I'd imagine there's quite a few substances to that comment!

 

[L'arriviste]

I was reading an article on Longo's 3 missed tests and there was a comment below the article saying that Voeckler had missed 2, anyone know if there is any substance to that comment?

I have also noted some fairly vague (forum) references to this but I have not yet found anything substantial. The gist of them was that Voeckler himself had stated that he had failed his whereabouts twice, both times in August 2011. As I say, it's pinch of salt stuff until I can substantiate further.

EDIT: Turns out that the source of this comes from Velo 101, 11 Sept 2011. Voeckler made a TV appearance on Canal+ and defended Longo there:

"Depuis le Tour de France, il m'est arriv&#233]

 

[webvan]

Interesting...I wonder how you can miss a test during the TDF when riders are staying in the hotel booked by their team.

I thought that he'd maybe said that to show that it was easy to miss a test...possibly to explain how Longo could have missed three.

Dude must be pretty stressed out as the next time it's a strike!

 

[L'arriviste]

Interesting...I wonder how you can miss a test during the TDF when riders are staying in the hotel booked by their team.

I thought that he'd maybe said that to show that it was easy to miss a test...possibly to explain how Longo could have missed three.

Dude must be pretty stressed out as the next time it's a strike!

Voeckler's whereabouts errors occurred in August 2011 (i.e. after the Tour) according to his own words. He doesn't say whether he's had any official warnings though. Sorry, I've edited a bit since then. Please see above.

 

[hrotha]

How do you forget this stuff when it's been part of your routine for years? If you go away on vacation or something, filling in the whereabouts form should come about as naturally as taking your luggage with you.

 

[webvan]

Hopefully you can just call/fax or send an email to whoever is in charge of keeping tabs. Oh I see there is "software" to report your position.

@L'arriviste - thanks, that makes sense and he was indeed defending her. It seems to me that he forgot to report his position but was not tested on that day, so he's OK.

 

[GJB123]

How do you forget this stuff when it's been part of your routine for years? If you go away on vacation or something, filling in the whereabouts form should come about as naturally as taking your luggage with you.

There was an item once on Dutch television (related to a hurrdler missing too many OoC-controls) and it isn't as straight forward as you make it out to be. They use a web application that is prone crashing and throwing you out of the system time and time again leaving the athletes unsure whether their whereabouts actually were registered at all (he couldn't get back in to check). They had a guy from the Holland 8 (rowing) do a demo on TV and I must day it was horrendous. Throw into that that you can miss a control by actually not hearing your doorbell (imagine sitting the garden and just miss hearing it) and you are ****ed, because they do not want to call you on your mobile to tell you therey are now at the location where you claimed to be. Or that you might have a last minute change of plans and can't get into the system. The system just sucks.

The athlete they showed was academically schooled, not a stupid guy and by no means someone who was sloppy, but by his accounts you had to be downright never to mess up with the whereabouts.

Regards
GJ

 

[webvan]

They should try to figure out a way to double-checkif they get no answer when they ring the bell...

 

[Bumeington]

There was an item once on Dutch television (related to a hurrdler missing too many OoC-controls) and it isn't as straight forward as you make it out to be. They use a web application that is prone crashing and throwing you out of the system time and time again leaving the athletes unsure whether their whereabouts actually were registered at all (he couldn't get back in to check). They had a guy from the Holland 8 (rowing) do a demo on TV and I must day it was horrendous. Throw into that that you can miss a control by actually not hearing your doorbell (imagine sitting the garden and just miss hearing it) and you are ****ed, because they do not want to call you on your mobile to tell you therey are now at the location where you claimed to be. Or that you might have a last minute change of plans and can't get into the system. The system just sucks.

The athlete they showed was academically schooled, not a stupid guy and by no means someone who was sloppy, but by his accounts you had to be downright never to mess up with the whereabouts.

Regards
GJ

1. I can understand that if there's a logical time for Voeckler to miss test it's as a post-tour hero travelling all over France and perhaps with a changing schedule based on requested TV interviews etc.

2. I can believe the system is crap but you can't get a warning for not hearing the doorbell. An athlete has to select one hour a day to be available, no hard to make sure they are in doorbell hearing range for one hour, testers can't turn up at random times.

 

[hrotha]

There was an item once on Dutch television (related to a hurrdler missing too many OoC-controls) and it isn't as straight forward as you make it out to be. They use a web application that is prone crashing and throwing you out of the system time and time again leaving the athletes unsure whether their whereabouts actually were registered at all (he couldn't get back in to check). They had a guy from the Holland 8 (rowing) do a demo on TV and I must day it was horrendous. Throw into that that you can miss a control by actually not hearing your doorbell (imagine sitting the garden and just miss hearing it) and you are ****ed, because they do not want to call you on your mobile to tell you therey are now at the location where you claimed to be. Or that you might have a last minute change of plans and can't get into the system. The system just sucks.

The athlete they showed was academically schooled, not a stupid guy and by no means someone who was sloppy, but by his accounts you had to be downright never to mess up with the whereabouts.

Regards
GJ

All of that is true, of course, but Voeckler talks about "forgetting", not about failing to fill in the whereabouts forms due to some computer trouble or to his being taking a dump at the time the testers came.

 

[L'arriviste]

All of that is true, of course, but Voeckler talks about "forgetting", not about failing to fill in the whereabouts forms due to some computer trouble or to his being taking a dump at the time the testers came.

Yes indeed. But he used the word oublier which can mean a lot of things. Commonly it means "forget" but it can also mean "overlook", "miss", "omit" or "leave out". Elsewhere, sources paraphrase him specifically as having "omitted" something. Perhaps it's pedantic, but we're on that sort of topic.

My opinion is that he probably wouldn't have spoken openly like that if he'd been subject to a couple of official written warnings.

 

[hrotha]

So the French language decided it wasn't enough to have a vocabulary that consists entirely of 4 or 5 homophones, their words also had to be insanely polysemous. Gah. GAH.

 

[roundabout]

There are unofficial warnings?

 

[webvan]

Yes indeed. But he used the word oublier which can mean a lot of things. Commonly it means "forget" but it can also mean "overlook", "miss", "omit" or "leave out". Elsewhere, sources paraphrase him specifically as having "omitted" something. Perhaps it's pedantic, but we're on that sort of topic.

My opinion is that he probably wouldn't have spoken openly like that if he'd been subject to a couple of official written warnings.

So he would have received two unannounced visits in August? Seems unlikely when you read that the UCI has been slacking on these tests.

Doubt he would talk about two missed tests so lightly, he was probably just trying to explain that you can forget. In fact for all we know he maybe forgot to do it and someone on the team reminded him to do it before it was too late.

 

[L'arriviste]

So he would have received two unannounced visits in August? Seems unlikely when you read that the UCI has been slacking on these tests.

Doubt he would talk about two missed tests so lightly, he was probably just trying to explain that you can forget. In fact for all we know he maybe forgot to do it and someone on the team reminded him to do it before it was too late.

Quite right and he doesn't say he missed any tests. My point above was that if he had actually missed tests and got the official written warnings from the French cycling authority instead of just messing up his forms without any consequences, I don't think he would be telling a primetime talk show about it.