Voeckler doping?

[ChrisE]

He is on the team owned the man who agreed to pay for Floyd's doping program. Do you think he drew BMC at random and just happened to get the short straw?

When does the past stop being extrapolated onto the present? I did alot of crap in the past, but don't do it now.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Re: Schleck brothers.

How can these two Nancies p*ss about the 'other contenders' not being aggressive when they're both there in the final group and don't try to pull a one-two to thin it out?

They can't both win, but one of them may be able to.

Is it because Franc's looking in better form than his highly-touted younger brother?

Tommy V was there at the end because he's highly motivated, and the pace eased off enough between half-*ssed attacks that he could recover and then use his power to close gaps.

I'm not calling out to the days of Postal et al, but rather the 80s style of actually trying to crush the competition through aggresive attrition. I just want to see a little passion...

 

[ChrisE]

I feel sorry for you.

And agree with what you saw. It just leaves me wondering if those who complain about TV also saw the stage today. I watch cycling since 1980. Never ever witnessed such a $hitty MTF like today. But it will get worse. I promise you, riders will go backwards since no favourite want to lead.

Yeah, and since the world is turning backwards since clinic enemies are agreeing with eachother, I concur with FoxxyBrown.

The most laughable thing about the whole stage, on top of the snoozefest up the mountain, was the sprint at the end by AS to gain 2 seconds lol. If there were time bonuses obviously that would mean something, but there aren't obviously. WTF was that all about?

Voeckler never attacked but he covered alot of what there was. The last time I think Basso went and was towing somebody, and looked to have about 30 meters or so you could see TV sprinting around a corner in the background chasing them down. I seriously hope he wins, and even though I am not a religious person I will find something to pray to for this outcome.

Pathetic display by the Schlecks. AC and Evans are better TTers, so their negative racing is at least somewhat understood. Plus, AC is obviously not right.

 

[this_is_edie]

damn, either the world is really ending or I need to buy lotto tickets. I agree with ChrisE again on what happened in the stage today.

The stupid tactics from the so-called contenders, especially the one-brained Schleck bros afforded enough recovery time to Voeckler so he could follow the attacks.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yeah, and since the world is turning backwards since clinic enemies are agreeing with eachother, I concur with FoxxyBrown.

The most laughable thing about the whole stage, on top of the snoozefest up the mountain, was the sprint at the end by AS to gain 2 seconds lol. If there were time bonuses obviously that would mean something, but there aren't obviously. WTF was that all about?

Voeckler never attacked but he covered alot of what there was. The last time I think Basso went and was towing somebody, and looked to have about 30 meters or so you could see TV sprinting around a corner in the background chasing them down. I seriously hope he wins, and even though I am not a religious person I will find something to pray to for this outcome.

Pathetic display by the Schlecks. AC and Evans are better TTers, so their negative racing is at least somewhat understood. Plus, AC is obviously not right.

Funny how things turn out sometimes. I totally agree with you.

I think Evans still can´t believe the gifts he received today, AC smirks secretly in his hotel bed that the Shrecks let him heal and Basso could hide his form for another day. The TV doubters have someone new to accuse of doping w/o any hard numbers behind it. The only ones that suffer is the fans who actually want to see racing. We got robbed of a saturday evening.

Those Schleck cowards are good in accusing others not to wait for them, not to attack for them, and afterwards cry foul. I am tired of this guys. Bring back the Giro please... or even the Vuelta or Friedensfahrt.

 

[Je ne sais quoi]

Re Voeckler. I think all we're seeing here is someone performing outside the cookie-cutter of our expectations, our collective agreement about the world. Most riders spend their whole careers imprisoned by their own and others' expectations. A lot of really talented domestiques never find out what they are capable of, and everyone rides to their specialties.

But this Tour has really blown all that apart.

Voeckler has never before had the inclination, incentive or belief that he could contest a mountain stage.
Vanendert did stellar work for Gilbert in the Spring, but only a bizarre turn of events set him free. Who would have predicted these last two finishes?

Maybe in exceptional circumstances people are capable of surpassing our collective expectations.
Or maybe it's not possible for anyone to surpass our expectations without being filthy cheats.
The 500 ml glass contains 250 ml.

 

[ChrisE]

Yeah Foxxy and Edie, and I know you agree with me when I say I miss the Texas Tornado reigning strong like a galactic patron superhero over minions such as we saw today. This is what happens when a superior athlete is not there to dominate the pretenders.

He would have struck them down today like a fist from an angry god.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

damn, either the world is really ending or I need to buy lotto tickets. I agree with ChrisE again on what happened in the stage today.

The stupid tactics from the so-called contenders, especially the one-brained Schleck bros afforded enough recovery time to Voeckler so he could follow the attacks.

Same goes with me. This annoying stage goes beyond any border there may is. It just describes who ugly it was, when all of a sudden "enemies" become all friends...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yeah Foxxy and Edie, and I know you agree with me when I say I miss the Texas Tornado reigning strong like a galactic patron superhero over minions such as we saw today. This is what happens when a superior athlete is not there to dominate the pretenders.

He would have struck them down today like a fist from an angry god.

Hate to admit it. But with Fignon, Hinault or ... yes Armstrong, we would never ever witnessed such a non-racing event. I really tought silently about it while watching this farce: bring back Armstrong and Ullrich or at least heal AC.

OMG, is this me writing this...

 

[D-Queued]

Yeah Foxxy and Edie, and I know you agree with me when I say I miss the Texas Tornado reigning strong like a galactic patron superhero over minions such as we saw today. This is what happens when a superior athlete is not there to dominate the pretenders.

He would have struck them down today like a fist from an angry god.

He would have shown us a miracle.

Instead, we got magic.

I don't know which one to believe in any more.

Dave.

 

[Velodude]

He is on the team owned the man who agreed to pay for Floyd's doping program. Do you think he drew BMC at random and just happened to get the short straw?

I am not attempting to defend Cadel Evans only that I was under the impression from various comments/articles over the years he could never win La Grand Boucle cos he rode clean.

Even after he won the Tour of Austria in 2004 Team Telekom would not include him in the TdF team and it was speculated his purity would be a liability to a team in a multi stage race. That speculation held weight later when TT imploded when details of a doping program amongst riders surfaced.

However, your guilt by association is a very persuasive and condemning argument.

 

[Ferminal]

I was looking forward to a thread like this in the clinic.

As I was watching today, I was thinking this was an indication of a cleaner peleton. Now I see the conspiracy clan is out saying he is doped to the gills because he is French. When, the French in the past were at a detriment because they didn't dope.

This goes back to the basic question: how do we know when the peleton as a whole is clean. When I see 6-8 riders finishing together on a stage like this, and Voeckler staying steady in yellow with the small gaps all thru the top 10-20, I think it does. Some of you clowns aren't happy unless you are complaining and whining about something.

I do admit this stage sucked. Obviously AS could have put in a harder attack than he did up the mountain, the way he rode away from everybody at the end. He was scared of distancing his bro I think, who was not on a good day. Basso was the only one other than AS half heartedly that tried to do something.

I hope Voeckler wins, or Sanchez. The arrogance of the Schlecks deserves to be whacked down, and it will give you guys another boogy man.

What about Yardstick?

 

[this_is_edie]

Yeah Foxxy and Edie, and I know you agree with me when I say I miss the Texas Tornado reigning strong like a galactic patron superhero over minions such as we saw today. This is what happens when a superior athlete is not there to dominate the pretenders.

He would have struck them down today like a fist from an angry god.

Ahhhh the world is right again and ChrisE is wrong.

 

[ChrisE]

Hate to admit it. But with Fignon, Hinault or ... yes Armstrong, we would never ever witnessed such a non-racing event. I really tought silently about it while watching this farce: bring back Armstrong and Ullrich or at least heal AC.

OMG, is this me writing this...

Ahhhh the world is right again and ChrisE is wrong.

What about Yardstick?

Now that you bring him up Ferminal, the fact that he finished far down means the peleton is still doped. TV's French morals have been overcome by the dark side. Finally, some sanity in this thread.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I am not attempting to defend Cadel Evans only that I was under the impression from various comments/articles over the years he could never win La Grand Boucle cos he rode clean.

Even after he won the Tour of Austria in 2004 Team Telekom would not include him in the TdF team and it was speculated his purity would be a liability to a team in a multi stage race. That speculation held weight later when TT imploded when details of a doping program amongst riders surfaced.

Evans was not included in T-Mob's Tour team because he is an a-hole who did not fit in with the rest of the team, which was made up of long time friends. Evans was not going to be hanging out, sharing a beer, with Ullrich, Kloeden, Zabel, and Vino.

Evans went from Mapei to T-Mobile to Lotto to BMC. How he skipped riding for Bruyneel or Saiz we may never know. He rolls doping snake eyes every time he changes teams. For such a clean rider, he sure has had a run of bad luck.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

ChrisE

BTW your avatars improve more and more. Wonder what comes next.

 

[Velodude]

Evans was not included in T-Mob's Tour team because he is an a-hole who did not fit in with the rest of the team, which was made up of long time friends.

Evans went from Mapei to T-Mobile to Lotto to BMC. How he skipped riding for Bruyneel or Saiz we may never know. He rolls doping snake eyes every time he changes teams. For such a clean rider, he sure has had a run of bad luck.

You been hacking my post?

Originally Posted by Velodude
I am not attempting to defend Cadel Evans only that I was under the impression from various comments/articles over the years he could never win La Grand Boucle cos he rode clean. Evans was not going to be hanging out, sharing a beer, with Ullrich, Kloeden, Zabel, and Vino.

Even after he won the Tour of Austria in 2004 Team Telekom would not include him in the TdF team and it was speculated his purity would be a liability to a team in a multi stage race. That speculation held weight later when TT imploded when details of a doping program amongst riders surfaced.

A-holes can be tolerated in any team environment when they have talent of a level that can financially benefit team and sponsors. To wit, who was reputedly the biggest a-hole in TdF 1999-2010?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

You been hacking my post?

Yowza. I edited my post to include that sentence and put it in the wrong place. Fixed it.

A-holes can be tolerated in any team environment when they have talent of a level that can financially benefit team and sponsors. To wit, who was reputedly the biggest a-hole in TdF 1999-2010?

Different teams are different. The germans and Eastern Blockers on T-Mobile valued camaraderie. They already had three solid and proven GC contenders. They did not need a maverick who no one liked. Evans also had a habit during that time of getting injured...

 

[CowboyTx]

Evans also had a habit during that time of getting injured...

It was like he had a collar bone made of balsa wood

 

[Der_Gestreifte]

Evans was not included in T-Mob's Tour team because he is an a-hole who did not fit in with the rest of the team, which was made up of long time friends.

You mean the likes of Ivanov, Nardello, Botero, Guerini, Nardello and Kessler (certainly not an Eastern Blocker)?
As an aside, no Vino. Crashed out of TdS in 2004.

 

[montagna lunga]

Stop talking nonsense. This is the Clinic and when we're discussing a rider, it's because he's a doper.

That is SO full of ****...one guy starts by saying "I don't know how he could..." and the rest of you start tossing trash talk like it was junior high school dodgeball in January....what a ****ing crock not ONE of you deserves to claim ANY interest in seeing ANY rider in the yellow jersey

****ing lops

 

[cyclestationgiuseppe]

Watching Voekler ride today I felt like I was watching a mini-cooper staying with a bunch of 4X4 vehicles during the Dahar.
Something just did not seem right!

It does not pass the smell test!

 

[Maxiton]

They have to, maillot jaune gets tested every day.

Anyway, it's just before a rest day. We'll see what happens after that rest day. If the others show miraculous powers of recovery and Thomas just fades away, we'll know that we had nothing to worry about. But if he's up there with the blood bag mafia, it gets interesting.

Once upon a time, they had a test for suspected witches. They'd tie them up and throw them into water. If the suspect drowned it meant she was innocent; if she lived, it proved she was guilty of practicing witchcraft. This is sort of like that.

I was looking forward to a thread like this in the clinic.

As I was watching today, I was thinking this was an indication of a cleaner peleton. Now I see the conspiracy clan is out saying he is doped to the gills because he is French. When, the French in the past were at a detriment because they didn't dope.

This goes back to the basic question: how do we know when the peleton as a whole is clean. When I see 6-8 riders finishing together on a stage like this, and Voeckler staying steady in yellow with the small gaps all thru the top 10-20, I think it does. Some of you clowns aren't happy unless you are complaining and whining about something.

I do admit this stage sucked. Obviously AS could have put in a harder attack than he did up the mountain, the way he rode away from everybody at the end. He was scared of distancing his bro I think, who was not on a good day. Basso was the only one other than AS half heartedly that tried to do something.

I hope Voeckler wins, or Sanchez. The arrogance of the Schlecks deserves to be whacked down, and it will give you guys another boogy man.

This is really a whack thread. One of the "clean heroes" does well, so that means he is doping and throws Moondance into a depression. Hide the sleeping pills and vodka lol.

As I've made abundantly clear, I'm a Tommy V fan. Do I think he's clean? At this point I don't really care. There were far bigger issues from today's stage.

Primarily the coward/wuss factor. What a bunch of Prancies! I love cycling for the dramatic and courageous decisions that riders make when it counts. Until one of the 'top contenders' steps up and starts to ride like they actually want to win (and beat their competitors), Tommy V deserves to stay in yellow for the whole f*cking show...

Lance Armstrong says that professional cycling is entertainment, and that without dope cycling will be so lacking in entertainment, no one will watch. That's why, in his estimation, those who want to ban doping really want to ban pro cycling; because that will be the outcome of an effective doping ban. Judging by all the mewling and screeching about the pussie stage today, you'd think he's right.

The truth is, none of us has ever seen a clean peloton, or knows what a clean race looks like. Maybe it looks like what we saw today, and maybe a clean peloton consists of a bunch of athletic, skilled guys trying their best to race up a mountain without blowing up. The thing is, maybe even they aren't sure of what their natural limits are. It's new to them, too.

Why would a peloton of professional racers ride the Tour more or less clean? Maybe because we told them that's what we wanted, and they finally got the message. Maybe because sponsorship is starting to dry up due to doping scandals. Maybe because Alberto Contador's urine sample was unaccountably sent off for real scrutiny and everyone is concerned this could happen to them, too.

I'm not really sure why, but, in any case, get used to what you saw today because that may be what clean racing, pretty much, looks like. Tommy Voeckler hasn't become extraterrestrial; the peloton has simply become human.

 

[webvan]

I'll take it. The last time it looked like that was maybe 1989 when Fignon and Lemond were fighting it out in the mountains, alternating between good and bad days.

 

[rgmerk]

Unscientific training

I know that "high cadence" is (deservedly) a punchline on this board, but the Inner Ring had a post from early this year suggesting that Voeckler's training was <A HREF="http://inrng.com/2011/03/three-cheers-for-voeckler/">very unscientific</A>, done without the aid of even basics like heart rate monitors and power meters.

Has Voeckler said anything about changing his training program - perhaps in the non-English language press? If he has gotten a bit more systematic about things, that would explain at least some improvement.