Voeckler doping?

[Jeanne]

ahhhhh I'm tired of seeing this. Really. I never thought I might start disliking a rider who's actually being good. Just too good to be true IMO. Sorry, TV...

 

[Willy_Voet]

Rolland now

Amazing isn't it, a 34 year old nobody coming out of nowhere and mixing it up with the best climbers in the world?

 

[Jeanne]

Amazing isn't it, a 34 year old nobody coming out of nowhere and mixing it up with the best climbers in the world?

makes me believe even I could do it...! Maybe I should try? Not even 30 yet!

 

[frenchfry]

ahhhhh I'm tired of seeing this. Really. I never thought I might start disliking a rider who's actually being good. Just too good to be true IMO. Sorry, TV...

And yet on another thread, you agree with this:

Originally Posted by dekker_tifosi
i would have enjoyed the tour more with vinokourov, vandenbroeck, horner, wiggins, klöden, brajkovic, a 100% fit contador,a 100% fit gesink, and the addition of rodriguez and menchov

+100000000

Did you just start following cycling last week?

 

[MacRoadie]

not bad for a B-grade team.. ?????

No kidding. Where did they find these guys? Seems like they came from nowhere and now they're competing at this level in their first Tour? Why couldn't they invite a team with more Tour experience? Some team like Brioches La Boulangère or Bouygues Telecom or BBox maybe?

 

[frenchfry]

Originally Posted by Zoncolan
Rolland now

Amazing isn't it, a 34 year old nobody coming out of nowhere and mixing it up with the best climbers in the world?

Rolland is going for the white jersey, he is therefore less than 25.

 

[Jeanne]

And yet on another thread, you agree with this:



Did you just start following cycling last week?

No, today But I can like riders and enjoy a tour WITH them even though they are suspect or even confirmed (ex-?)-dopers. But for Mr. TV, this is somehow not working. This is a mix of I dislike TV and I think he is super-suspect. And because I don't like him too much, I don't like seeing him doing a highly-suspect super-performance. Can you handle this?

And, btw, what are you doing all day, collecting my posts?

 

[Willy_Voet]

Rolland is going for the white jersey, he is therefore less than 25.

Oh ****, so you mean that he actually might be a new talent whose ability is hard to judge?

Wait a sec, I just realized he won the climber's jersey at the Dauphine in 2008 at 21. He's obviously been doping for 3+ years. No way he could perform at that level and be at the front of a race like the TdF...he's French!

 

[frenchfry]

No, today But I can like riders and enjoy a tour WITH them even though they are suspect or even confirmed (ex-?)-dopers. But for Mr. TV, this is somehow not working. This is a mix of I dislike TV and I think he is super-suspect. And because I don't like him too much, I don't like seeing him doing a highly-suspect super-performance. Can you handle this?

And, btw, what are you doing all day, collecting my posts?

When someone says they would like to see vinokourov, vandenbroeck, horner, wiggins, klöden, and brajkovic in the race yet agressively goes after Voeckler as a doper, I have to wonder about your motivation and cycling knowledge.

 

[classicomano]

Time to change the thread title to: Europcar doping?

 

[Jeanne]

When someone says they would like to see vinokourov, vandenbroeck, horner, wiggins, klöden, and brajkovic in the race yet agressively goes after Voeckler as a doper, I have to wonder about your motivation and cycling knowledge.

I'm not aggressive at all. I'm quite sarcastic and ironic. And, btw. I'm not less critical towards riders a like a lot. Plus, what am I doing here?! I don't need to justify my opinions or likes/dislikes to you.

 

[frenchfry]

I'm not aggressive at all. I'm quite sarcastic and ironic. And, btw. I'm not less critical towards riders a like a lot. Plus, what am I doing here?! I don't need to justify my opinions or likes/dislikes to you.

I am not questioning your right to be here nor your right to express your opinions. I just don't find your opinions rational - that is my right.

Maybe if Radioshack riders were in the same situation as Europcar, you would be equally cynical.

By the way, I don't think I have seen such a suffer-fest in a long long time. Something has changed in cycling, and I like it personally.

 

[No_Balls]

Time to change the thread title to: Europcar doping?

Systematically, just like Telekom in the old days.

 

[hrotha]

Time to change the thread title to: Europcar doping?

Definitely time for a title change. Rolland, I could see, kind of, until today. Voeckler, pffff, I was almost on the fence. What about the rest of the team? And remember Kern withdrew, officially due to a tendonitis. Meanwhile, the other French teams are more or less at the same level as always.

 

[eztarget]

Wouldn't it just be easier (in ALL sports) to allow doping?

Best drugs & athlete wins.

Side Effect: They all die at age 45 of a heart attack after years of doping.

 

[VeloGirl]

I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.

This. They must not be drinking unicorn tears and beetjuice

 

[Cloxxki]

Let's just hope the climbing times turn out to have been way slow today.

Else, I am getting Lance/Andreas and Festina flashbacks as well.

 

[Jeanne]

I am not questioning your right to be here nor your right to express your opinions. I just don't find your opinions rational - that is my right.

Maybe if Radioshack riders were in the same situation as Europcar, you would be equally cynical.

By the way, I don't think I have seen such a suffer-fest in a long long time. Something has changed in cycling, and I like it personally.

No offense to you at all either!

I really enjoyed watching those the stages in the Alps, very exciting - also thanx to Voeckler that's for sure. No doping can give you the pure will to fight as hard as he did and for that I appreciate him.

 

[roundabout]

Tommy finished 20th. I was about 10 places off.

Still think it was more to do with tactics and trying to **** horns with Contador/Schleck for too long. Overconfidence?

 

[MacRoadie]

Tommy finished 20th. I was about 10 places off.

Still think it was more to do with tactics and trying to **** horns with Contador/Schleck for too long. Overconfidence?

No!

It is blantantly clear to even the most junior of observers that Voeckler obviously miscalculated his micro-dosing of EPO, and that his refill on the "rest day" is wearing off.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

When someone says they would like to see vinokourov, vandenbroeck, horner, wiggins, klöden, and brajkovic in the race yet agressively goes after Voeckler as a doper, I have to wonder about your motivation and cycling knowledge.

Funny stuff right here. Guys like Vandenbroeck spend their entire YEAR preparing for the tour. They train like a maniac and work insane hours in the mountains. These guys are "outsiders" for a podium spot, top 5 "contenders". And then you have Voeckler, who comes to the TdF without much specific preparation, goes into breaks etc and he basically pummels guys like Basso, Sanchez, Cunego in all the mountain stages except on the Alpe d'Huez, where he loses merely 2.5 minutes on these guys. In the meanwhile he seems to have the most impressive mountain team as well, even whithout Kern...

Yeah, i wonder why he would be more suspicious. I would like to see him do this again... outside of France.

 

[frenchfry]

No offense to you at all either!

I really enjoyed watching those the stages in the Alps, very exciting - also thanx to Voeckler that's for sure. No doping can give you the pure will to fight as hard as he did and for that I appreciate him.

Reconciled? Thanks for meeting me half way.

I am glad to see that this year the speeds are down (especially on the climbs) and the suffering is up. I am not just talking about the grimaces, these guys are struggling to finish. This is a good sign for me as a confirmed cynic. I am surprised at all the "hate" towards French riders that are now integrating the top 10. Lets be realistic, a 4th and 10th overall and 1 stage win isn't exactly earth shattering, even if it is a big improvement over past years.

I don't know if Voeckler/Rolland are doping. I do know that there is a very strong anti-doping culture here (having talked with individuals on French teams) and many signs point towards the French riders being relatively clean. I hope that Voeckler's 4th overall (for now) is the result of a timely break and a lot of guts from a top level rider. I could be wrong, but I would like to see the criticism justified by more than the fact that they are riding near the front. After all, someone has to be at the front!

 

[frenchfry]

Funny stuff right here. Guys like Vandenbroeck spend their entire YEAR preparing for the tour. They train like a maniac and work insane hours in the mountains. These guys are "outsiders" for a podium spot, top 5 "contenders". And then you have Voeckler, who comes to the TdF without much specific preparation, goes into breaks etc and he basically pummels guys like Basso, Sanchez, Cunego in all the mountain stages except on the Alpe d'Huez, where he loses merely 2.5 minutes on these guys. In the meanwhile he seems to have the most impressive mountain team as well, even whithout Kern...

Yeah, i wonder why he would be more suspicious. I would like to see him do this again... outside of France.

Thanks for reminding me that French riders don't prepare correctly, while others have an "insane" preparation.

In an interview after todays stage, Rolland said he did the Alpe 8 times in a training camp. Sounds to me like he was pretty serious about things. Maybe VDB2 did it 20 times?

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Funny stuff right here. Guys like Vandenbroeck spend their entire YEAR preparing for the tour. They train like a maniac and work insane hours in the mountains. These guys are "outsiders" for a podium spot, top 5 "contenders".

That's just bike racing. Some guys have to train more/harder/smarter than others. If racing is cleaner, genetic talent is more important than anything. Some guys overtrain, some stumble into great fitness, some have got it dialed, and sure some are on drugs.

Speeds are down and nobody is really killing anyone. Schlecks, Cadel, Contador are clearly the best, but certainly not dominating all aspects of the race as in years past.

By all the estimates floating around, Voeckler is climbing a little bit better than 2004, the big boys are all going significantly slower.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Thanks for reminding me that French riders don't prepare correctly, while others have an "insane" preparation.

In an interview after todays stage, Rolland said he did the Alpe 8 times in a training camp. Sounds to me like he was pretty serious about things. Maybe VDB2 did it 20 times?

Wrong topic. Wrong guy. Wrong answer.

That's just bike racing. Some guys have to train more/harder/smarter than others. If racing is cleaner, genetic talent is more important than anything. Some guys overtrain, some stumble into great fitness, some have got it dialed, and sure some are on drugs.

Speeds are down and nobody is really killing anyone. Schlecks, Cadel, Contador are clearly the best, but certainly not dominating all aspects of the race as in years past.

By all the estimates floating around, Voeckler is climbing a little bit better than 2004, the big boys are all going significantly slower.

Like i said. I'd like to see him do it again, outside of France.