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Mr.White

Mr.White

Mar 13, 2015
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Re: Re:

JRanton said:
jens_attacks said:
This is the sky kiwi
He will fly and kill babies
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I've read that he's never previously trained at altitude before joining Sky. Can you imagine what he will be like once he's been up to Teide with Sky a couple of times? I can't wait.
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And we all know what Sky really does on Teide, aren't we :D Jokes aside, he's been at altitude last season, Sierra Nevada with Etixx.
 
LaFlorecita

LaFlorecita

May 15, 2011
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Mr.White said:
And we all know what Sky really does on Teide, aren't we :D Jokes aside, he's been at altitude last season, Sierra Nevada with Etixx.
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staubsauger said:
Landa has been at El Teide with Astana multiple times. He joined Aru and Scarponi for their altitude camp prior to the 2014 Giro d'Italia.
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Guys, stop posting facts, that's no fun :(
 
LaFlorecita

LaFlorecita

May 15, 2011
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HelloDolly said:
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I am not forgetting them ....The TT makes the difference and hence why I think they won't podium though both better climbers than Kwait & Uran
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Pinot has improved his ITT skills tremendously, he will not lose much time at all to Contador, a few seconds at best, I am sure of that. So if Contador can beat Kwiatkowski then so can Pinot.
 
johnymax

johnymax

May 8, 2014
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Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
HelloDolly said:
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I am not forgetting them ....The TT makes the difference and hence why I think they won't podium though both better climbers than Kwait & Uran
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Pinot has improved his ITT skills tremendously, he will not lose much time at all to Contador, a few seconds at best, I am sure of that. So if Contador can beat Kwiatkowski then so can Pinot.
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How do you know this? He's been improving his TT every year now but he still lacks in comparison with the best TTers amongst GC riders. He's had some good performances in the past but not enough to beat the best. I hope he proves me wrong and indeed takes a big step forward in this discipline. While I agree he won't lose much time to Contador in the TT and he certainly can beat Michal in GC.

Thomas is an unknown to me. If he was in form, he would be the favourite with Contador, but apparently he's not in top shape yet. We'll see.
 
Gigs_98

Gigs_98

Feb 18, 2015
13,820
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Re: Re:

johnymax said:
Gigs_98 said:
JRanton said:
jens_attacks said:
This is the sky kiwi
He will fly and kill babies
Click to expand...

I've read that he's never previously trained at altitude before joining Sky. Can you imagine what he will be like once he's been up to Teide with Sky a couple of times? I can't wait.
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I can
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What? You can imagine what he will be like or you can wait? ;)
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I can wait :D
 
LaFlorecita

LaFlorecita

May 15, 2011
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Re: Re:

johnymax said:
While I agree he won't lose much time to Contador in the TT and he certainly can beat Michal in GC.
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If he won't lose much time to Contador that means he can ride a very good ITT. Which is clear when you look at his results last year and even this year (ITT at Etoile de Bessèges). To suggest he can't win here because he'll lose too much time to Kwiatkowski in the ITT is odd and that's what I was pointing out to HelloDolly.

Edit: I must add he's never been a shabby TTer but he's much more consistent now compared to 3-4 years ago (not strange at all, he was very young at that point). A TT is no longer something he must be afraid of if it ever was.
 
johnymax

johnymax

May 8, 2014
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Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
johnymax said:
While I agree he won't lose much time to Contador in the TT and he certainly can beat Michal in GC.
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If he won't lose much time to Contador that means he can ride a very good ITT. Which is clear when you look at his results last year and even this year (ITT at Etoile de Bessèges). To suggest he can't win here because he'll lose too much time to Kwiatkowski in the ITT is odd and that's what I was pointing out to HelloDolly.

Edit: I must add he's never been a shabby TTer but he's much more consistent now compared to 3-4 years ago (not strange at all, he was very young at that point). A TT is no longer something he must be afraid of if it ever was.
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I agree with you. I'm just saying that I expect him to lose time to Contador on the climbs AND in the TT (not much but enough), while Thomas and Kwiat will lose time on the climbs but can get back some time in the TT (how much I don't know). That's why if we are talking strictly for the win, the Sky duo is a better bet. If we are talking a top5 placing I'd take Pinot, because I know he'll be up there.

With the bolded part again I agree but to some extent. He is a good TT rider, but there are GC guys that are much better than him. Look at the Tour de Suisse last year. He did a good TT (14th), but Thomas, Spilak an Dumoulin all did much better. So it's still his main weakness if he wants to win WT stage races. There are those guys I mentioned, than you have Contador, Porte, Froome, even Nibali, Uran, Zakarin (still needs to confirm his Romandie ride) who can all gain time on him in TTs. So for top5 (top3) still enough, but to win races he needs to improve further his TT or become the best climber in the world.
 
LaFlorecita

LaFlorecita

May 15, 2011
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johnymax said:
With the bolded part again I agree but to some extent. He is a good TT rider, but there are GC guys that are much better than him. Look at the Tour de Suisse last year. He did a good TT (14th), but Thomas, Spilak an Dumoulin all did much better. So it's still his main weakness if he wants to win WT stage races. There are those guys I mentioned, than you have Contador, Porte, Froome, even Nibali, Uran, Zakarin (still needs to confirm his Romandie ride) who can all gain time on him in TTs. So for top5 (top3) still enough, but to win races he needs to improve further his TT or become the best climber in the world.
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There are so many riders that have won stage races that aren't the best climber in the world or among the best GC ITTers in the world. Pinot can win stage races as well if he is in good shape and isn't competing against 1 of the 3 or 4 best stage racers in the world. I am sure he could win this race as well.
 
johnymax

johnymax

May 8, 2014
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Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
johnymax said:
With the bolded part again I agree but to some extent. He is a good TT rider, but there are GC guys that are much better than him. Look at the Tour de Suisse last year. He did a good TT (14th), but Thomas, Spilak an Dumoulin all did much better. So it's still his main weakness if he wants to win WT stage races. There are those guys I mentioned, than you have Contador, Porte, Froome, even Nibali, Uran, Zakarin (still needs to confirm his Romandie ride) who can all gain time on him in TTs. So for top5 (top3) still enough, but to win races he needs to improve further his TT or become the best climber in the world.
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There are so many riders that have won stage races that aren't the best climber in the world or among the best GC ITTers in the world. Pinot can win stage races as well if he is in good shape and isn't competing against 1 of the 3 or 4 best stage racers in the world. I am sure he could win this race as well.
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No objections here. I had in mind important races with strong lineups. Even then he still has his chances of course. There's always tactics and some different/random scenarios involved or races with no ITT, we all know that. But I hope you see what am I trying to say here.
 
LaFlorecita

LaFlorecita

May 15, 2011
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Re: Re:

johnymax said:
No objections here. I had in mind important races with strong lineups. Even then he still has his chances of course. There's always tactics and some different/random scenarios involved or races with no ITT, we all know that. But I hope you see what am I trying to say here.
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Yeah, I get what you're trying to say ;)

MatParker117 said:
Pinot is an OK TT rider, unfortunately for him these days you have to be great
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To achieve what?
 
B

Brullnux

Mar 31, 2015
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Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
MatParker117 said:
Pinot is an OK TT rider, unfortunately for him these days you have to be great
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To achieve what?
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To win GC I imagine. Clearly Mat has forgotten that the last Tour contained a grand total of 14 kilometres of ITT. Also, tell that to Quintana. I feel he might disagree.
 
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