Volta Ciclista a Catalunya 2023, March 20-26

[Devil's Elbow]

So 15km at 6.7% and 2150m altitude tomorrow, will it be hard enough for significant gaps?

This climb has been used as a MTF in this race four times since 2013, the gaps from first to tenth were 21 seconds in both 2013 and 2014, 53 seconds in 2019 and 36 seconds in 2021, so that indicates what kind of gaps to expect. The stage 5 MTF produced bigger gaps the only time it’s been used this century (in 2017, 1:11 from first to tenth) but this one is still the second-hardest climb in the race and the attacks usually start decently early because the middle section is the hardest. It’s a fairly good MTF for being effectively unipuerto, IMO.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

The best Carapaz could've made it a three-way sprint. Why does he start his season this late by the way?

Sorry, you're not allowed to discuss any other rider. This is the Remco and Roglic thread.

 

[Riek s]

Not to meant you had referenced "wheelsucking" so no issue there. As for Remco being faster....he could've started his sprint earlier, too. He didn't, wasn't faster and came second. That's how the races work and folks do constantly classify Roglic's wins as a product of luck or using the work of others. Today was 300 meters of solid effort; he didn't look at any followers and you assume he couldn't have gone faster if he felt pressed. Neither you nor I know how much faster he could've gone; particularly if he didn't need to hold a 300m uphill effort.

Remco started his sprint earlier than Roglic, yes he was that far back.

And nobody is not accepting Roglic victory....

 

[Riek s]

This climb has been used as a MTF in this race four times since 2013, the gaps from first to tenth were 21 seconds in both 2013 and 2014, 53 seconds in 2019 and 36 seconds in 2021, so that indicates what kind of gaps to expect. The stage 5 MTF produced bigger gaps the only time it’s been used this century (in 2017, 1:11 from first to tenth) but this one is still the second-hardest climb in the race and the attacks usually start decently early because the middle section is the hardest. It’s a fairly good MTF for being effectively unipuerto, IMO.

Thanks.

So not very big time gaps between the favorites.

edit: just looked up the top10 in 2021:

Rnk	Rider	Team	UCI	Pnt		Time
1	YATES Adam	INEOS Grenadiers	50	50	10″	5:00:58
2	CHAVES Esteban	Team BikeExchange	20	30	6″	0:13
3	VALVERDE Alejandro	Movistar Team	8	18	4″	0:19
4	THOMAS Geraint	INEOS Grenadiers		13		0:31
5	VANHOUCKE Harm	Lotto Soudal		10		,,
6	KUSS Sepp	Team Jumbo-Visma		7		,,
7	CARTHY Hugh	EF Education - Nippo		4		,,
8	WOODS Michael	Israel Start-Up Nation		3		0:36
9	PORTE Richie	INEOS Grenadiers		2		,,
10	CICCONE Giulio	Trek - Segafredo		1		,,

Pity Yates was involved in the crash. Was expecting this a good climb for him, seems to be true.

 

[Extinction]

Not to meant you had referenced "wheelsucking" so no issue there. As for Remco being faster....he could've started his sprint earlier, too. He didn't, wasn't faster and came second. That's how the races work and folks do constantly classify Roglic's wins as a product of luck or using the work of others. Today was 300 meters of solid effort; he didn't look at any followers and you assume he couldn't have gone faster if he felt pressed. Neither you nor I know how much faster he could've gone; particularly if he didn't need to hold a 300m uphill effort.

I was not classifying Roglic's win as lucky, as I explained up thread. My call is that Remco was coming up faster than Roglic, but that wasn't enough for the win. Chapeau Primoz. Now I speculate that had Remco been on Van Willer's wheel or indeed Roglic's, he likely would have won, but that didn't happen so it remains hypothetical. I don't think Roglic had more speed in his legs at the line, precisely because it was an uphill sprint and he started from 300 meters out. By contrast, Remco started to sprint from even further out due to his terrible position, but he looked to be the faster of the two on the run in. Coming second doesn't mean his absolute velocity wasn't faster, only that he ran out of road to overtake Roglic (as so often happens in sprints, when the fastest guy loses because he started way too far back).

So I'd say they are both in fine form, and it will be the mountains to decide who is stronger.

 

[Red Rick]

This climb has been used as a MTF in this race four times since 2013, the gaps from first to tenth were 21 seconds in both 2013 and 2014, 53 seconds in 2019 and 36 seconds in 2021, so that indicates what kind of gaps to expect. The stage 5 MTF produced bigger gaps the only time it’s been used this century (in 2017, 1:11 from first to tenth) but this one is still the second-hardest climb in the race and the attacks usually start decently early because the middle section is the hardest. It’s a fairly good MTF for being effectively unipuerto, IMO.

It was raced extremely passively in 2013 and 2014 IIRC. I don't think it's very representative. 30 guys within a minute in 2013. It's similar in profile to Pico Jano except harder and higher. One team can decide to drill the first 3rd and gaps are big.

Unless I'm in extremely good shape I'm not even trying to follow Evenepoel I'm just looking at my stem probably.

That said, IIRC Tortosa was basically the most biblical VAM of like 2012-2019

 

[tobydawq]

The new Remco

He won't wear that tomorrow.

 

[Bonimenier]

It was raced extremely passively in 2013 and 2014 IIRC. I don't think it's very representative. 30 guys within a minute in 2013. It's similar in profile to Pico Jano except harder and higher. One team can decide to drill the first 3rd and gaps are big.

Unless I'm in extremely good shape I'm not even trying to follow Evenepoel I'm just looking at my stem probably.

That said, IIRC Tortosa was basically the most biblical VAM of like 2012-2019

Even if you were in extremely good shape, you wouldn't make it to the final climb in the peloton.

 

[Red Rick]

He won't wear that tomorrow.

Young riders jersey he's required to take it, no?

 

[Riek s]

Young riders jersey he's required to take it, no?

Yes i believe so. since he is 1st i think he must wear it. (unless WC sweater >> national jersey?)

 

[Red Rick]

Even if you were in extremely good shape, you wouldn't make it to the final climb in the peloton.

I will never recover from this

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He won't wear that tomorrow.

He's the genuine leader of the BYR classification, so i don't think he has a choice. Van Wilder dodged a bullet.

 

[theyoungest]

This climb has been used as a MTF in this race four times since 2013, the gaps from first to tenth were 21 seconds in both 2013 and 2014, 53 seconds in 2019 and 36 seconds in 2021, so that indicates what kind of gaps to expect. The stage 5 MTF produced bigger gaps the only time it’s been used this century (in 2017, 1:11 from first to tenth) but this one is still the second-hardest climb in the race and the attacks usually start decently early because the middle section is the hardest. It’s a fairly good MTF for being effectively unipuerto, IMO.

Given the form Evenepoel is in, and having just returned from altitude, I'd be very surprised if anyone finishes within half a minute of him. Yates would have been a good bet, Roglic if he was in a really good climbing form but I don't think he is (yet) so that leaves Evenepoel.

 

[noob]

The new Remco









He

Looks good in that color!!!

 

[Extinction]

"Had, would have, doubt, because..." You need to accept Primoz won. Tomorrow is another race and it could all change.

Don't tell me what I need to accept, as the premise is ridiculous in any case. It's called race analysis, sorry if you can't accept that.

 

[Gargamel35]

Roglič deviated a bit towards Remco at the end. This old dog is learning new tricks.

Tommorow Remco needs to destroy the field by 30s+ or i don't know who this "equal or better then Pogačar" guy is.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

If Yates wins there again tomorrow, they should rename it the Adam 1992 (or perhaps the Remco 2000 one day).

 

[Lequack]

Bad news for Cataldo, Trek says multiple fractures:
"A CT scan performed at the hospital revealed that Dario has sustained a fractured left femoral head & right acetabulum (the ‘ball & socket’ joint of the hip), two transverse process fractures of the lumbar spine without neurological impact, multiple broken ribs with a collapsed lung on both sides and a fractured left collarbone. "

https://twitter.com/x/status/1637902368443604993

View: https://twitter.com/TrekSegafredo/status/1637902368443604993

 

[Bonimenier]

Roglič deviated a bit towards Remco at the end. This old dog is learning new tricks.

That's not a new trick for him. Stage 16 of the Vuelta last year he was already deviating towards the opposition in a sprint.

 

[Sciatic]

This is utter nonsense, it's called race analysis. It's done after every race. Remco just unexpectedly happened to be a protagonist in the sprint, which in itself is noteworthy, and, had he been better positioned, actually could have won. No apology, if anything criticism.

I know we're in a post-truth world these days, but to suggest this Remco-Roglic commentary is the norm is going overboard. I couldn't watch this morning; when I came online to open this thread and saw there were 14 pages of comments after just stage 1 of Catalunya, I knew that Remco and Roglic had to have been involved (in some way) in the finale) Fourteen pages and the day is not over. Both Paris-Nice and Tirreno, arguably much bigger races, which also had big star power, each had 8 pages of comments after their respective first stages. And that Stage 1 of PN included Pogacar and Vingo, in their first big rematch since the Tour, sprinting for mountain bonus points. Yet Remco and Roglic generate twice as much commentary.

 

[saunaking]

Remco punching his handle bar!!! This is what we want to see !

he missed tho lol

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I know we're in a post-truth world these days, but to suggest this Remco-Roglic commentary is the norm is going overboard. I couldn't watch this morning; when I came online to open this thread and saw there were 14 pages of comments after just stage 1 of Catalunya, I knew that Remco and Roglic had to have been involved (in some way) in the finale) !4 pages and the day is not over. Both Paris-Nice and Tirreno, arguably much bigger races with big star power, each had 8 pages of comment after their respective first stages. And that Stage 1 of PN included Pogacar and Vingo, in their first big rematch since the Tour, sprinting for mountain bonus points. Yet Remco and Roglic generate twice as much commentary.

Count your blessings Almeida aka Almida wasn't Involved!

 

[noob]

I know we're in a post-truth world these days, but to suggest this Remco-Roglic commentary is the norm is going overboard. I couldn't watch this morning; when I came online to open this thread and saw there were 14 pages of comments after just stage 1 of Catalunya, I knew that Remco and Roglic had to have been involved (in some way) in the finale) !4 pages and the day is not over. Both Paris-Nice and Tirreno, arguably much bigger races with big star power, each had 8 pages of comment after their respective first stages. And that Stage 1 of PN included Pogacar and Vingo, in their first big rematch since the Tour, sprinting for mountain bonus points. Yet Remco and Roglic generate twice as much commentary.

It's absolutely bananas. I detatch and then it's immensely enjoyable

 

[Sciatic]

It's absolutely bananas. I detatch and then it's immensely enjoyable

Very wise.

 

[Divergence]

Roglič deviated a bit towards Remco at the end. This old dog is learning new tricks.

Tommorow Remco needs to destroy the field by 30s+ or i don't know who this "equal or better then Pogačar" guy is.

The barrier was closing in at the end. It was a normal line.

That's not a new trick for him. Stage 16 of the Vuelta last year he was already deviating towards the opposition in a sprint.

He was hit on stage 16 by someone who did not want to accept that the wheel in front was being taken by someone else.