Vuelta 2017 stage 11 Lorca - Calar Alto 187,5 km

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

So we can finally conclude that Nibali won Tour 2014 fair and square, right?
Not that I have ever had any doubt, it's cycling after all.

It's the age old - ridiculous - argument:

"What if all the best riders, all in their best form, without anyone crashing, puncturing or getting sick, rode the same race, the same year?"

To finish first, first you have to finish

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

This Nibali would have won the Giro

Don't know, Dumoulin was super strong throughout

No he wasn't. He was super strong a few stages, then very good on other and pretty mediocre on a few, but the competitors where as well.

Nibali finished with Dumoulin's domestique today

Thank you. At least somebody noticed.

Jesus christ people.

Do we say the same thing everytime someone finishes next to Mikal Landa just because he's ridden for Froome in the past?

Kelderman is a quality rider, give him that respect...

 

[Breh]

Sooo unlucky for De La Cruz. He looked really good imo and somehow managed to still take 10th this stage. Impressive.

Orica completely annihilated.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

Superman is so, so much better than his so-called leader.

You can't blame Aru for fading after the season he had.

You might blame him for being a non-talent though!

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

This Nibali would have won the Giro

Don't know, Dumoulin was super strong throughout

No he wasn't. He was super strong a few stages, then very good on other and pretty mediocre on a few, but the competitors where as well.

Nibali finished with Dumoulin's domestique today

Thank you. At least somebody noticed.

Jesus christ people.[/quote]
Do we say the same thing everytime someone finishes next to Mikal Landa?

Kelderman is a quality rider, give him that respect...[/quote]

- - - sorry, messed up the quote, and can't seem to fix it

He IS giving him respect.... he is just saying the other dutchman is better

- and I don't think there is a cycling fan in the world, that doesn't look forward to an epic battle in the coming years, between the faded grand champion, and his heir apparent

Only question is, when Sky is going to buy him

 

[markene2]

Fun stage today, Nibali looks strong, will be a fun fight!

 

[portugal11]

Unfortunately orica will start to defend his third place. No long range attacks anymor in this vuelta

 

[carton]

BTW, massive kudos to Chaves, Roche and Tejay for not giving up the ghost even though the legs clearly weren't there.

Impressive rides by Kelderman and Carapaz.

 

[Põhja Konn]

If Nibali manages to press him throughout remaining mountain stages as he did today, even a Froome could start showing the effects of doing 2nd consecutive GT for a win. Admittedly, it is a remote possibility, not a likely outcome. Also the fact that the TT is in the 3rd week, should help Nibali a bit, as recovery comes into play alongside pure TT-ing ability.

In the end it is all theory though and we will see how it actually pans out on the road. Let's just hope for the best an be prepared for a Froome victory.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Superman is so, so much better than his so-called leader.

You can't blame Aru for fading after the season he had.

You might blame him for being a non-talent though!

That's just ridiculous - you can't call a GT winner a "non-talent"

 

[yaco]

Froome had some difficulty today in the cooler weather - Similar weather tomorrow could see Froome in trouble - Nibali is looking good and I expect him to get stronger.

 

[Red Rick]

Kelderman's performance today is nothing to be scoffed at. Its very obvious that Nibali is better than at the Giro.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Froome had some difficulty today in the cooler weather - Similar weather tomorrow could see Froome in trouble - Nibali is looking good and I expect him to get stronger.

Well he did ride the Tour so that has to count as well.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Orica's plan was so cryptic and so secret that not even Chaves himself is able to explain it to the press

Been a few GTs where Chaves hasn't been good the day after rest day. Bad day and time loss (realistically out of red jersey calculations) but not disastrous; will find out over next few stages where it was just a bad day or whether he just "doesn't have it" at this race.

As for Orica's "brainstorm" of sending all 3 GC men to the one GT resulting in a lop-sided "too many chiefs, not enough Indians !" line-up; just one of a few real GMBU's (Grand Military Balls Up's) committed by Orica hierarchy this season. At most teamsm this should result in the perpetrator being fired as high as the moon but I fear that Ryan & Bannan aren't cold blooded enough to send M.White into orbit .... or render him shark bait like he so richly deserves for his his repeated missteps this season.

 

[yaco]

Re:

I wonder if Haig has more chance at winning a GT than any of the Yates/Chaves right now. I just don't see the last 3 ever doing it.

Haig defintely has a better chance that the Yates brothers - Chaves can win a GT.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Froome had some difficulty today in the cooler weather - Similar weather tomorrow could see Froome in trouble - Nibali is looking good and I expect him to get stronger.

Still ended up gaining time on everyone.

Nibali should have gained time today and failed to do so

 

[Climbing]

Re: Re:

So we can finally conclude that Nibali won Tour 2014 fair and square, right?
Not that I have ever had any doubt, it's cycling after all.

It's the age old - ridiculous - argument:

"What if all the best riders, all in their best form, without anyone crashing, puncturing or getting sick, rode the same race, the same year?"

To finish first, first you have to finish

I was answering people saying that Nibali could have won the Giro with this form, and other answering not because there were Domu and Quintana.
I agree with this, it's like 2014, "Froome and Contador would have won without crashing out", but they did.
I don't believe in if and what, that was my point.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

Superman is so, so much better than his so-called leader.

You can't blame Aru for fading after the season he had.

You might blame him for being a non-talent though!

That's just ridiculous - you can't call a GT winner a "non-talent"

He absolutely looks like Roberto Pistore with a gt win. Everybody knows how he won that Vuelta anyway. It was the strength of his team dragging him away from Dumoulin rather than his own strength!

Riis originally was a non-talent as well. And that term somehow was a hyperbole of course!

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Congrats Superman. Grande Squalo, this was just a sign of things to come.

If everyone is healthy, Astana can put in a fantastic team for next years TDF.

- question is, if the management is good enough at keeping the peace, with 3 guys wanting the captaincy

But with Cataldo, Lutsenko, Kangert, LL Sanchez, Hansen, Tiralongo, as well as new signings Villella, Hirt and Fraile.... they will most definitely not be lacking back up in the mountains.

I'd expect Lopes will ride for GC at the Giro as he will be much better suited by its parcours and he is a decent TTer.

 

[Climbing]

A TMB / Astana alliance might be possible as well.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

Congrats Superman. Grande Squalo, this was just a sign of things to come.

If everyone is healthy, Astana can put in a fantastic team for next years TDF.

- question is, if the management is good enough at keeping the peace, with 3 guys wanting the captaincy

But with Cataldo, Lutsenko, Kangert, LL Sanchez, Hansen, Tiralongo, as well as new signings Villella, Hirt and Fraile.... they will most definitely not be lacking back up in the mountains.

I'd expect Lopes will ride for GC at the Giro as he will be much better suited by its parcours and he is a decent TTer.

It already has been his intention to lead Astana at the Giro in the past. Before his curse of injuries began. So it's what I would expect as well!

Guess that's why Astana still looks out for a potential Tour leader, instead of only Fuglsang!

 

[jsem94]

Brutal stage, just finished watching on demand. MAL is incredible.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Froome had some difficulty today in the cooler weather - Similar weather tomorrow could see Froome in trouble - Nibali is looking good and I expect him to get stronger.

Still ended up gaining time on everyone.

Nibali should have gained time today and failed to do so

Let's see how Froome performs in a second day of cooler weather which is predicted tomorrow.

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Re:

Froome had some difficulty today in the cooler weather - Similar weather tomorrow could see Froome in trouble - Nibali is looking good and I expect him to get stronger.

Still ended up gaining time on everyone.

Nibali should have gained time today and failed to do so

Let's see how Froome performs in a second day of cooler weather which is predicted tomorrow.

27 Celsius and negligible chance of rain tomorrow

 

[Poursuivant]

Chuffed for Lopez after his injuries.