Vuelta 2017 stage 11 Lorca - Calar Alto 187,5 km

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Aug 22, 2017
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yaco said:
Froome had some difficulty today in the cooler weather - Similar weather tomorrow could see Froome in trouble - Nibali is looking good and I expect him to get stronger.

Perhaps I wasn't watching the same stage because I never saw Froome in trouble. He did what he always has done. He peddled to his own rhythm and ended up coming in 2nd on the stage ahead of Nibali. Tomorrow will be no different.
 
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portugal11 said:
Unfortunately orica will start to defend his third place. No long range attacks anymor in this vuelta
We'll know in a few days whether this was just a bad day for Chaves or whether he just "hasn't got it" this time round. If its the former, then why not try to keep him/get him on the podium if possible.

As for long range attacks; they tried today with SY but he was always going to be the weakest option given he was "running on empty" at the end of the Tour and has been tailing off here. His overall utility going to be minimal at best. They mucked up by sending a "top heavy" team with 3 GC men in varying levels of form but far less real support. Haig can still be of legitimate use; AY has now fallen out of contention ... as to whether his form/riding style lends itself to being of major support use or even up the road may be open to question.
 
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Climbing said:
Broccolidwarf said:
Climbing said:
So we can finally conclude that Nibali won Tour 2014 fair and square, right?
Not that I have ever had any doubt, it's cycling after all.
It's the age old - ridiculous - argument:

"What if all the best riders, all in their best form, without anyone crashing, puncturing or getting sick, rode the same race, the same year?"

To finish first, first you have to finish ;)
I was answering people saying that Nibali could have won the Giro with this form, and other answering not because there were Domu and Quintana.
I agree with this, it's like 2014, "Froome and Contador would have won without crashing out", but they did.
I don't believe in if and what, that was my point. :)
- and I was agreeing with you and elaborating :p
 
Aug 20, 2017
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LaFlorecita said:
Brullnux said:
MatParker117 said:
skippo12 said:
Nibali is Froomes equal on longer climbes...this race isn`t over.
The two and a half minutes Froome will put into him in the TT says otherwise.
Where's two and half minutes coming from? Dumoulin barely put 2 minutes into him at the giro.
Sky fans like to exaggerate.
Unfortunately you were right, I must admit. As you must remember I hoped it would be 10' gap instead of 3'55.
Disappointing. :cry:
Nevertheless - great ride by Lopez, Orica & BMC crushed.
 
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staubsauger said:
Broccolidwarf said:
staubsauger said:
Alexandre B. said:
DNP-Old said:
Superman is so, so much better than his so-called leader.
You can't blame Aru for fading after the season he had.
You might blame him for being a non-talent though!
That's just ridiculous - you can't call a GT winner a "non-talent"
He absolutely looks like Roberto Pistore with a gt win. Everybody knows how he won that Vuelta anyway. It was the strength of his team dragging him away from Dumoulin rather than his own strength!

Riis originally was a non-talent as well. And that term somehow was a hyperbole of course!
Then what constitutes a "non-talent"?

You might very well use the same argument for Froome, because of the strength of his team.

Aru finished the Tour ahead of Martin, Yates, Meintjes, Contador and Quintana.... are they all thus "non-talents"?

It's a ridiculous claim - and I am by no means an Aru fan - I'd like him to leave Astana :)
 
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Valv.Piti said:
I just realised that stage 15 is a lot harder than I thought. Hazallanes + Purche/Monachil and then a 5% drag to Sierra Nevada. Thats a Aprica deluxe!
All we need is someone with the b*lls to derail Sky train in Hazallanas. After what we saw today I wouldn't bet against Puccio still leading the bunch in the first km of Monachil and Moscon lasting until 3km to the finish.
 
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ice&fire said:
Valv.Piti said:
I just realised that stage 15 is a lot harder than I thought. Hazallanes + Purche/Monachil and then a 5% drag to Sierra Nevada. Thats a Aprica deluxe!
All we need is someone with the b*lls to derail Sky train in Hazallanas. After what we saw today I wouldn't bet against Puccio still leading the bunch in the first km of Monachil and Moscon lasting until 3km to the finish.
I guess we all were a bit saddened by the fact they ain't gonna finish up the Veleta! But indeed with Hazallanas and Monarchil beforehand it's a Les Deux Alpes like setup. It might still end up in a 2009 scenario with Bardet being the lucky Frenchman. Which still would be better than those mid ninenties Sierra Nevada stages. With all respect to Jalabert, Rominger & Bert Dietz!
 
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ice&fire said:
Valv.Piti said:
I just realised that stage 15 is a lot harder than I thought. Hazallanes + Purche/Monachil and then a 5% drag to Sierra Nevada. Thats a Aprica deluxe!
All we need is someone with the b*lls to derail Sky train in Hazallanas. After what we saw today I wouldn't bet against Puccio still leading the bunch in the first km of Monachil and Moscon lasting until 3km to the finish.
Well Chaves was clearly bad today so that explains his lack of aggressiveness. He is good racer otherwise. Nibali is Nibali, but has a *** team. The stage suits Alberto much better than this one with two high gradient, relatively short climbs like Hazallanes and Monachil, thats the perfect ambush stage for him. So lets see what he has. Then there's Astana, who knows?
 
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Bot. Sky_Bot said:
Unfortunately you were right, I must admit. As you must remember I hoped it would be 10' gap instead of 3'55.
Disappointing. :cry:
Nevertheless - great ride by Lopez, Orica & BMC crushed.
Since stage 3 he lost a grand total of 45s, 1/3rd of that being bonifications. You expected him to lose 6'50". Chin up, it's at least 10% of your prediction!
 
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jarvo said:
I think Sky should have written Nieve a blank cheque to make him stay, such a valuable dom for froome in the mountains.
Absolutely, great mountain dom, perhaps he will have more chance to ride for himself and that is why he's going to Orica but yes I would have paid whatever he wanted to stay at Sky.
 
Tonton said:
The last climb could be deadly, but recent history shows that nothing happens early. Guys will drop from the back, some will not come back, we'll peel off the artichoke, no more. Big picture, nothing...maybe the day that TJ is the casualty though.
...better than usual on the prediction side :) ...

Nibali is at the same level as he was in the Giro; week 2 and 3 he will get stronger. But he's still a notch below Froome, at least for now. I don't see Il Squalo gaining the 3 minutes he needs before the ITT. Dawg gets marginal time gains over his opponents every day. His lead is now quite substantial. It's his Vuelta to lose: I don't see it happening. Berto is well within range for a podium spot.

Wilco fares better than I would have thought, and so does De La Cruz. But the race is still young. Terrible day for BMC. Bardet deserved better today, but he'll try again.

It turned out to be a little better of a bike race than I expected.
 
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bigcog said:
jarvo said:
I think Sky should have written Nieve a blank cheque to make him stay, such a valuable dom for froome in the mountains.
Absolutely, great mountain dom, perhaps he will have more chance to ride for himself and that is why he's going to Orica but yes I would have paid whatever he wanted to stay at Sky.
Nieve should never, ever, ever have to slave for the Yates brothers. Chaves however, that could be interesting and good he at least is out of Sky, but De la Cruz more or less is a 1/1. At least in the long run, cause Nieve is for Froomey what Szmyd was for Basso. Best mountain dom in the world!
 
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Valv.Piti said:
ice&fire said:
Valv.Piti said:
I just realised that stage 15 is a lot harder than I thought. Hazallanes + Purche/Monachil and then a 5% drag to Sierra Nevada. Thats a Aprica deluxe!
All we need is someone with the b*lls to derail Sky train in Hazallanas. After what we saw today I wouldn't bet against Puccio still leading the bunch in the first km of Monachil and Moscon lasting until 3km to the finish.
Well Chaves was clearly bad today so that explains his lack of aggressiveness. He is good racer otherwise. Nibali is Nibali, but has a **** team. The stage suits Alberto much better than this one with two high gradient, relatively short climbs like Hazallanes and Monachil, thats the perfect ambush stage for him. So lets see what he has. Then there's Astana, who knows?
I reckon TBM was pretty decent today, especially Pellizotti. At the end he was still pulling when Froome had only Nieve left.
 
Tonton said:
Tonton said:
The last climb could be deadly, but recent history shows that nothing happens early. Guys will drop from the back, some will not come back, we'll peel off the artichoke, no more. Big picture, nothing...maybe the day that TJ is the casualty though.
...better than usual on the prediction side :) ...

Nibali is at the same level as he was in the Giro; week 2 and 3 he will get stronger. But he's still a notch below Froome, at least for now. I don't see Il Squalo gaining the 3 minutes he needs before the ITT. Dawg gets marginal time gains over his opponents every day. His lead is now quite substantial. It's his Vuelta to lose: I don't see it happening. Berto is well within range for a podium spot.

Wilco fares better than I would have thought, and so does De La Cruz. But the race is still young. Terrible day for BMC. Bardet deserved better today, but he'll try again.

It turned out to be a little better of a bike race than I expected.
Ever since Barguil is gone Wilco fares better. Seems Sunweb made the right decision.
 
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Climbing said:
So we can finally conclude that Nibali won Tour 2014 fair and square, right?
Not that I have ever had any doubt, it's cycling after all.
Why because he launched a few attacks, which Froome countered ? haha. Of course he won it, the other two crashed out, you can argue hypotheticals all day long but why bother.
 
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bigcog said:
Climbing said:
So we can finally conclude that Nibali won Tour 2014 fair and square, right?
Not that I have ever had any doubt, it's cycling after all.
Why because he launched a few attacks, which Froome countered ? haha. Of course he won it, the other two crashed out, you can argue hypotheticals all day long but why bother.
Read better, it's exactly what I was arguing, since people where saying that Nibali could have won this year Giro with this form, which I disagree.
Hard to communicate irony in words on a forum, especially not being native speaker.
Sorry about that.
 
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Climbing said:
bigcog said:
Climbing said:
So we can finally conclude that Nibali won Tour 2014 fair and square, right?
Not that I have ever had any doubt, it's cycling after all.
Why because he launched a few attacks, which Froome countered ? haha. Of course he won it, the other two crashed out, you can argue hypotheticals all day long but why bother.
Read better, it's exactly what I was arguing, since people where saying that Nibali could have won this year Giro with this form, which I disagree.
Hard to communicate irony in words on a forum, especially not being native speaker.
Sorry about that.
My ppologies, obviously your original post too subtle for me :)
 
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klintE said:
klintE said:
TJ, Roche, Wooods, De La Cruz to drop down in GC.
Zakarin, Kelderman, Yates shall improve their GC position
Almost. Almost! :)
Good call overall! Although I have to say, TJ and Roche losing significant time today was about the most predictable thing to happen in cycling since Porte failing to live up to expectations in the Tour. How BMC must wish they still had a dull but solid GC rider like Evans to rely on.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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skippo12 said:
The sad thing is that except for Nibali and to a lesser extent Contador no one is even trying to challenge Froome. Orica did a lot of work earlier and was no where to be seen when it mattered most. Zakarin and Kelderman were happy enough to establish a top 10 position and the rest of the group was either way down in the GC or a Sky helper.
That's just right. Orica, Zakarin and Keldermercx should simply press the pedals harder :cool:

yaco said:
De La Cruz was impressive - No puncture at the bottom of the climb and he at least finishes with the Contador group if not better - This is the kind of climb that suit Lopez - He's a very good diesel climber.
Good to see Superman fully back. I was very impressed by De La Cruz, he was really unlucky. Why is he going to Sky :confused: (please don't give me the obvious answer)

ontheroad said:
Froome back to third is 2:30 minutes with a TT to come. Anyone thinking he was slightly in decline after the tour is forced to think again. He is stronger at this Vuelta than he was at the tour. Just compare him to Bardet and Aru who were up there on GC at the tour.

Nibali looking good to take 2nd as he now has over a minute on all other competitiors and is probably a slightly better TT'ist than most other GC men. The only remaining battle is probably for the 3rd podium spot which is a bit disappointing for the race with it being only half way through.
Nibali is not going to settle for second. The Shark will get stronger relative to the Alien as the race goes on, but The Alien has already put time into Nibbles and has the TT to come, so Nibbles will probably have to find 2.5 to 3 minutes on the Alien in the mountains and Sky have the strongest team. A big call, but this race isn't over yet.

I think the Alien was playing it smart by sitting at the back and I wonder how exhausted Moscon was when he dropped (how much of a monster is he?). Bahrain had an obvious gain from pushing at that point and Froome could just react when necessary. He'll be looking to match his closest competitor at the lowest possible cost. That is more or less what he did today and Poels will probably be in top gear for the last week (he never had to hit the front today).
 

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