Vuelta a España 2011

[just some guy]

Biggest flaw of this Vuelta is that the last week doesn't seem to affect the GC at all.

I was thinking that as well when I loaded on the stages - 1 week looks great stage 4 will be a good one to set the tone for the GC

Then we have Stages 9 10 11 to shake things up

Stage 13 14 15 look a great 3 days of racing not the Giro 3 days to hell, but getting close.

Then the GC is basically over.

 

[Parrulo]

You live 100m from the Spanish - Portugese border?

Or as i call it, the border between the developed and the undeveloped world


just joking

oh u

ya i do live that close to the border, well at least when i am not in college but in September i won't be in college so all i have to do is cross a bridge and i am in spain. or swim across the river xD

Yes. You should make yourself noticable so we can see you on tv!

i will either be in salvaterra or near the finish but to do something noticeable i would need to be closer to the finish because they pass in salvaterra early in the stage. still i have like 3 more months to plan this and i already have a couple of friends coming along with me.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=u%20jelly%3F

 

[no crostis no party]

Gesink was talking about a unpaved part in the final kilometers. So it must be some side road then?

I rode to Pico Veleta September, 2010. It is not quite paved to the summit. It was ride-able to about 3350 meters +/-. There is a line on the road at 3340 meters, where a Granada-based cycle touring company holds a climb once a year. I happened on a group from this company on the way down, and they told me this.

About 100 meters or so beyond that 3340 mark, is a hair-pin where the poorly surfaced asphalt turns to layers of loose shale. I judged it to be unride-able, at least by me, on my road bike with road shoes. I could see the summit which I think I've read somewhere is actually 3398; it looked to be about 20-30 meters higher. It is not a side road, although there are several along the road above the village of Sierra Nevada, it's the end of the "paved" road from Sierra Nevada.

Mulhcen, shown on the post by Liquigas is a separate peak, you don't get to Mulhcen via Pico Veleta.

 

[no crostis no party]

There is absolutely no way a finish could be organized near the top. No space, plus the eco concerns. That's why Vuelta only goes to Sierra Nevada ski village.

 

[craig1985]

oh u

ya i do live that close to the border, well at least when i am not in college but in September i won't be in college so all i have to do is cross a bridge and i am in spain. or swim across the river xD



i will either be in salvaterra or near the finish but to do something noticeable i would need to be closer to the finish because they pass in salvaterra early in the stage. still i have like 3 more months to plan this and i already have a couple of friends coming along with me.



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=u%20jelly%3F

Hold up a sign abusing/bantering/stirring up Hitch IMO

Or if Nibali is doing a great ride, hold up a sign and wind up DT by saying that Nibali is indeed a great climber.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Hold up a sign abusing/bantering/stirring up Hitch IMO

Or if Nibali is doing a great ride, hold up a sign and wind up DT by saying that Nibali is indeed a great climber.

Another one that would **** of DT would be "Gesink can't time trial"

oh u

ya i do live that close to the border, well at least when i am not in college but in September i won't be in college so all i have to do is cross a bridge and i am in spain. or swim across the river xD

i will either be in salvaterra or near the finish but to do something noticeable i would need to be closer to the finish because they pass in salvaterra early in the stage. still i have like 3 more months to plan this and i already have a couple of friends coming along with me.

Make sure you cheer on Cadel for me

After the Pena Carbarga stage (which I think will be really cool) there will be no real gc stages even though the stages are reasonably tough. I don't really know whoever the boss of this race is was thinking. It is definetly a different style of GT with a slightly anti-climatic race though the final week 4-5 days could cause some more "out of the ordinary" tatics from gc riders who are a bit behind.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

i will either be in salvaterra or near the finish but to do something noticeable i would need to be closer to the finish because they pass in salvaterra early in the stage. still i have like 3 more months to plan this and i already have a couple of friends coming along with me.

I guess Manzaneda's probably a bit too far to travel? You could always go to the départ at Ponteareas, that's not far from you, and you can meet and talk to some riders there as well.

Another one that would **** of DT would be "Gesink can't time trial"
Make sure you cheer on Cadel for me

After the Pena Carbarga stage (which I think will be really cool) there will be no real gc stages even though the stages are reasonably tough. I don't really know whoever the boss of this race is was thinking. It is definetly a different style of GT with a slightly anti-climatic race though the final week 4-5 days could cause some more "out of the ordinary" tatics from gc riders who are a bit behind.

I know exactly what Guillén was thinking, especially bearing in mind Galicia is being properly used for the first time in a while; the big thing is that the Basque country is being used for the first time in absolutely years, and that is one of the biggest things about the route; therefore they're being given the final stages as a big gesture; the problem is that they are starting and finishing in major towns and cities. Bilbao in stage 19 isn't too bad; 2nd cat close to the finish could see a bit of action if gaps are small. But I would have preferred them to do a stage to Urkiola or the Alto de Aia as a relatively short, steep MTF or, if they're insisting on major cities, a stage to Donostia since you could put a number of climbs in there. They could have used Urko (the other side of the first 3/4 of the Alto de Arrate), or the Garai climb used in the women's Emakumeen Bira that lies just outside Durango before Urkiola.

Also, a good finish in San Sebastián, if they were worried about treading on the Clasica's toes, would be to do multiple climbs of Monte Igueldo, especially if they climbed up to Igueldo village (2,8km @ 6,7%) then descended back down to climb to the Parque de Atracciónes. A route with multiple climbs then a couple of times up and down that would make for a much more interesting stage than we will likely, sadly, get on the way to Gasteiz.

 

[icefire]

I guess Manzaneda's probably a bit too far to travel? You could always go to the départ at Ponteareas, that's not far from you, and you can meet and talk to some riders there as well.

I know exactly what Guillén was thinking, especially bearing in mind Galicia is being properly used for the first time in a while; the big thing is that the Basque country is being used for the first time in absolutely years, and that is one of the biggest things about the route; therefore they're being given the final stages as a big gesture; the problem is that they are starting and finishing in major towns and cities. Bilbao in stage 19 isn't too bad; 2nd cat close to the finish could see a bit of action if gaps are small. But I would have preferred them to do a stage to Urkiola or the Alto de Aia as a relatively short, steep MTF or, if they're insisting on major cities, a stage to Donostia since you could put a number of climbs in there. They could have used Urko (the other side of the first 3/4 of the Alto de Arrate), or the Garai climb used in the women's Emakumeen Bira that lies just outside Durango before Urkiola.

Also, a good finish in San Sebastián, if they were worried about treading on the Clasica's toes, would be to do multiple climbs of Monte Igueldo, especially if they climbed up to Igueldo village (2,8km @ 6,7%) then descended back down to climb to the Parque de Atracciónes. A route with multiple climbs then a couple of times up and down that would make for a much more interesting stage than we will likely, sadly, get on the way to Gasteiz.

Just some more background info:

The first edition of the Vuelta was organised by a newspaper from Madrid in 1935. The Spanish Civil War started just two months after the second edition and the race was interrupted for four years. It was resumed in 1942 intermitently until 1950. After an absence of four years, in 1955 a Basque newspaper took over the race organisation and run it without interruptions until 1978. In that period the race had many stages and used to finish in the Basque Country. In the late 60's and early 70's Basque separatists grew uncomfortable with anything that carried the name of Spain. Despite the fact that Basques follow cycling more than any other people in Spain, the name of Spain in a bike race was something to hate. In 1978 things went definitely very bad. Basque separatists threatened the riders and threw nails in the course of the second last stage. The last stage, an ITT in San Sebastian IIRC, was cancelled because of barricades with burning tyres in the middle fo the course. The Basque newspaper gave up the organisation. Unipublic took over in January 1979 and was able to organise the next edition in just 3 months. The Vuelta never had a stage in the Basque Country since then. The return of the Vuelta to the Basque Country after 33 years has to be seen with those events of 1978 in mind.

And now my guess for the choice of stage finishes and their place at the end of the race. They have played safe. They had two stage finishes and they chose two big cities as you (LibertineSeguros) say. They avoided San Sebastián because that's the capital where separatists are more numerous. And they chose to race there in the last days and with courses not very selective just in case incidents force them to cancel a stage, so that everyone can agree that the GC was already decided.

 

[El Pistolero]

Isn't their any hate for Spanish cyclists at the Tour of the Basque country then? Are the Basques glad to see someone like Contador win?

I've always wondered about that. No cyclist seems to think Pais Vasco is a dangerous area to organize races in. Is the name really that important for them?

 

[hrotha]

Isn't their any hate for Spanish cyclists at the Tour of the Basque country then? Are the Basques glad to see someone like Contador win?

I've always wondered about that. No cyclist seems to think Pais Vasco is a dangerous area to organize races in. Is the name really that important for them?

Basque cycling fans are among the most civilized, knowledgeable and respectful ones in the world. The problem is not that Spanish cyclists would be there. The problem (for some) is the symbolism of the Tour of Spain including the Basque Country in its course as if it were just a part of Spain.

 

[icefire]

Isn't their any hate for Spanish cyclists at the Tour of the Basque country then? Are the Basques glad to see someone like Contador win?

I've always wondered about that. No cyclist seems to think Pais Vasco is a dangerous area to organize races in. Is the name really that important for them?

You're right. They like cycling and they cheer for any rider regardless of their origin. Well, they cheer more for their own riders, but that's ok.

I'd say it's just the name of Spain and its symbols. Euskaltel riders may ride but never contest the Spanish National Championships for fear of having to wear some sort of Spanish flag for a full year. Gárate is Basque and he had no problem at all with that because he has never been in Euskaltel, but everyone knows why Samuel Sanchez will never be Spanish champion. Pure nonsense, IMHO.

 

[Mambo95]

I'd say it's just the name of Spain and its symbols. Euskaltel riders may ride but never contest the Spanish National Championships for fear of having to wear some sort of Spanish flag for a full year. Gárate is Basque and he had no problem at all with that because he has never been in Euskaltel, but everyone knows why Samuel Sanchez will never be Spanish champion. Pure nonsense, IMHO.

No-one seemed too bothered by this, or any other EE rider representing Spain:

As to the champions jersey, I don't think you have to wear it. Indurain didn't. (Maybe they've changed the rules since then)

 

[hrotha]

No-one seemed too bothered by this, or any other EE rider representing Spain:

As to the champions jersey, I don't think you have to wear it. Indurain didn't. (Maybe they've changed the rules since then)

That's different, because at the Worlds or the Olympics it's either ride for Spain or don't ride at all. Most Basque nationalists are not willing to make that sacrifice (although there have been some examples in several sports), and they don't expect others to make it either. We're not talking about an EE rider riding for Spain, we're talking about an EE rider in Spanish champ colours all year long, and even if they went for a minimalist design like the one Indurain had, it would still be jarring. EE is not just a team. In many ways it's a national team.

edit: also obviously Samu is not Basque so riding for Spain wouldn't be a problem either way. Combining Spanish champ colours and EE would be, though.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Are you telling me Mikel Astarloza wasn't trying to win the 2009 championships when he was off the front with a km to go? Also Koldo Fernández was pretty happy to fight for a sprint before it was clear Gutiérrez wasn't going to be caught last year. I think the Euskaltel attitude to the national championships is changing a bit.

Though it may be worth noting that those 2009 championships that Astarloza and Antón contested were held in Cantabria, close at hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7MqmCnQ5o - see Astarloza going for the win.

I understand why they're choosing Gasteiz instead of Donostia, I'm just disappointed by it because I would have preferred the race to finish in a more dramatic way. Otherwise País Vasco's terrain could have made for some difficult and selective stages ahead of using the mountains of Cantabria and Asturias for the big climax - which would make more sense from a continuity and route perspective - but Espainiako Itzulia returning to Euskal Herriko is enough of a big deal to merit the race's competitive finale being there.

 

[icefire]

No-one seemed too bothered by this, or any other EE rider representing Spain:

As to the champions jersey, I don't think you have to wear it. Indurain didn't. (Maybe they've changed the rules since then)

Oh, no. The Olympics or the WC is just one day. I just meant winning the nationals and having to wear the Spanish colours for a full year somewhere over their Euskaltel kit, even if it's only a narrow strip on their sleeves or their neck which is what I recall Indurain and Valverde did.

 

[icefire]

Are you telling me Mikel Astarloza wasn't trying to win the 2009 championships when he was off the front with a km to go? Also Koldo Fernández was pretty happy to fight for a sprint before it was clear Gutiérrez wasn't going to be caught last year. I think the Euskaltel attitude to the national championships is changing a bit.

Though it may be worth noting that those 2009 championships that Astarloza and Antón contested were held in Cantabria, close at hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ7MqmCnQ5o - see Astarloza going for the win.

I understand why they're choosing Gasteiz instead of Donostia, I'm just disappointed by it because I would have preferred the race to finish in a more dramatic way. Otherwise País Vasco's terrain could have made for some difficult and selective stages ahead of using the mountains of Cantabria and Asturias for the big climax - which would make more sense from a continuity and route perspective - but Espainiako Itzulia returning to Euskal Herriko is enough of a big deal to merit the race's competitive finale being there.

I forgot something else in the historic background:
1979 saw the first local elections in Spain after the return of democracy as well as the first election to the Basque regional goverment. With Basque Nationalists in power since then they never asked the Vuelta to go there. As the coalition of nationalists lost the reginal government 2 years ago to a coalition of the two largest national parties, it was about time to ask for the Vuelta return to pretend normality. As soon as nationalists return to power things will be again as they used to be in the recent past: no Vuelta in the Basque Country. Thanks God Angliru is in Asturias

 

[El Pistolero]

Explains why so many Spanish cyclists always wear dull national jerseys if they win, it's like they somehow don't feel proud of wearing the colour of the nation. Spain is Belgium times 100.
Interesting discussion by the way, even if it is somewhat off topic.

 

[icefire]

Explains why so many Spanish cyclists always wear dull national jerseys if they win, it's like they somehow don't feel proud of wearing the colour of the nation. Spain is Belgium times 100.
Interesting discussion by the way, even if it is somewhat off topic.

Just wanted to give some hints to understand why the last stages of the Vuelta are what they are, but I diverted a bit too much I guess

 

[craig1985]

Basque cycling fans are among the most civilized, knowledgeable and respectful ones in the world. The problem is not that Spanish cyclists would be there. The problem (for some) is the symbolism of the Tour of Spain including the Basque Country in its course as if it were just a part of Spain.

I don't know why these idiots just don't let it go. Franco is long dead, and if they haven't achieved independence, I doubt they will be achieving it anytime soon.

I like Euskaltel, partly because I also ride an Orbea, and I like to cheer on the underdogs, and I was so happy to see Antón and Nieve get a stage win each at the Giro. Sammy Sánchez is perhaps one of my favourite riders.

 

[greenedge]

I have to say this Vuelta is filling me with some excitement. It looks well rounded until the last week but a rider might peak for 1st 2 weeks and then fail near the end where a rider could somehow go well on the flats. I think Cadel could do this to peak for Worlds ( whilst staying in contention in the Mountains ). Also there shall be a tier of racers who shall in the TDF come top 15 going for the win. It gives them a chance to win and not be suppresed by Contador. Nibali vs Anton will be epic.

 

[craig1985]

Peter Sagan is riding in this, right?

 

[just some guy]

I have to say this Vuelta is filling me with some excitement. It looks well rounded until the last week but a rider might peak for 1st 2 weeks and then fail near the end where a rider could somehow go well on the flats. I think Cadel could do this to peak for Worlds ( whilst staying in contention in the Mountains ). Also there shall be a tier of racers who shall in the TDF come top 15 going for the win. It gives them a chance to win and not be suppresed by Contador. Nibali vs Anton will be epic.

Cadel will be watching the worlds on TV

May ITT if Mick is still sick. But has already said not riding.

 

[dlwssonic]

Cadel will be watching the worlds on TV

May ITT if Mick is still sick. But has already said not riding.

exactly no point for cadel to be riding this worlds

 

[Pilgaard]

As always a rather mountainous Vuelta in 2011. As several have noted on the forum, stage 14 to La Farrapona is notable due to the final climb immediately following the second-to-last climb. Well done by the organisers.
However, I think it highlights the usual lack of the major, epic mountain stage that often dominates the Giro and the Tour. I don't know enough about the geography of Spain to know whether it is possible to create a 5 mountain-stage in Asturias or other places - if not, then they should "borrow" the Pyrenees from the Tour, like they have done previously. Something like 2003, when they had 3 MTF in the Pyrenees.
The final week looks weak - it could be like 2007, when Menchov had the Vuelta wrapped up several stages before the finish. I usually like when they include a MTF at the second-to-last stage, near Madrid.
No doubt that the mountains will decide the Vuelta. Stage 14 and 15 will be key.
Some on the forums have discussed whether there is too few ITT-kms in the recent Grand Tours. It is remarkable that all three Grand Tours are in the midst of using plenty of mountains, but not too many time triale. Definitely a good idea, especially compared to the 80s and 90s with the many, long ITT, which settled the GC before the mountains were even ridden.
But is the resulting smaller time differences the reason for the tendency to use the final mountain for an attack. We hardly see the large and epic breakaways from the GC-climbers anymore, like previously. Is it because of the risk involved, or because doping was more pronounced in the past ?
Not the best, nor the worst Vuelta-route. But the final week should have had an influential stage, to ensure the possibilty of suspension until the end.

 

[Tangled Tango]

Just some more background info:

The first edition of the Vuelta was organised by a newspaper from Madrid in 1935. The Spanish Civil War started just two months after the second edition and the race was interrupted for four years. It was resumed in 1942 intermitently until 1950. After an absence of four years, in 1955 a Basque newspaper took over the race organisation and run it without interruptions until 1978. In that period the race had many stages and used to finish in the Basque Country. In the late 60's and early 70's Basque separatists grew uncomfortable with anything that carried the name of Spain. Despite the fact that Basques follow cycling more than any other people in Spain, the name of Spain in a bike race was something to hate. In 1978 things went definitely very bad. Basque separatists threatened the riders and threw nails in the course of the second last stage. The last stage, an ITT in San Sebastian IIRC, was cancelled because of barricades with burning tyres in the middle fo the course. The Basque newspaper gave up the organisation. Unipublic took over in January 1979 and was able to organise the next edition in just 3 months. The Vuelta never had a stage in the Basque Country since then. The return of the Vuelta to the Basque Country after 33 years has to be seen with those events of 1978 in mind.

And now my guess for the choice of stage finishes and their place at the end of the race. They have played safe. They had two stage finishes and they chose two big cities as you (LibertineSeguros) say. They avoided San Sebastián because that's the capital where separatists are more numerous. And they chose to race there in the last days and with courses not very selective just in case incidents force them to cancel a stage, so that everyone can agree that the GC was already decided.

Thanks icefire. A nice historic summary of a most important part of Spanish cycling. Well done.