Vuelta a España - Stage 10 Tarragona - Vilanova i la Geltrú 175.7km

[salixcycling]

Caisse's leaderless making-it-up-as-we-go-along strategy is amazingly fruitful. 2 wins, and a lot of cards left to play in a multitude of ways.

Stacking most of the team in the top 30 would make them look like RS in the Tour, except that they are actually getting involved and racing. Seems to be working well, apart from the lack of overall GC contention.

 

[Jamsque]

Less than thrilling stage today. Van Avermat can only manage third, he'll be disappointed.

 

[nvpacchi]

good win for Erviti! 3rd Basque victory this Vuelta too.

 

[khardung la]

good win for Erviti! 3rd Basque victory this Vuelta too.

He is from Pamplona, Navarra. Not from the Vasque country.

 

[Kwibus]

Shame they didn't work together well enough to reel Erviti back in. That would make the final a lot more interesting.

Grats Erviti and Caisse!

p.s. Ten Dam should only consider joining breaks when the finish is on a hill or mountain, because he's never capable of outsprinting any other rider or able to escape from the break and stay away. Atleast that's my opinion. Nice try though.

 

[El Pistolero]

Oh well, 2 Belgians in the top 3. Gilbert takes over green jersey I think. Don't know why he's trying, but oh well...

 

[Jamsque]

He is from Pamplona, Navarra. Not from the Vasque country.

Pamplona, and much of the rest of Navarra, has a large ethnic Basque population (I'm not sure if it is a majority, but it wouldn't surprise me). It's perfectly possible that Erviti is ethnically Basque even if he isn't geographically Basque, although the hard-line Basque nationalists would claim that he is both.

 

[hrotha]

Pamplona, and much of the rest of Navarra, has a large ethnic Basque population (I'm not sure if it is a majority, but it wouldn't surprise me). It's perfectly possible that Erviti is ethnically Basque even if he isn't geographically Basque, although the hard-line Basque nationalists would claim that he is both.

Generally speaking, most of Navarre is non-Basque. The north-western portion is Basque for the most part. Pamplona, being the capital, and also being geographically more or less where the Basque and non-Basque regions come into contact, has a little bit of everything. Whether any particular Navarrese rider feels Basque or Spanish is anyone's guess.

 

[salixcycling]

Gilbert takes over green jersey I think. Don't know why he's trying, but oh well...

Not quite - Cav also got 4 points today.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Navarre is an area that has been Basque for large parts of history, but is very much a mixed population today, mostly Spanish-speaking. I don't know when the transition happened so whether it's a recent (like the Italian works programs to de-Germanise Südtirol that Mussolini attempted) or gradual development.

Anyway, yes, Caisse will look like RSH/Bruyneel's Astana from the '09 Giro and Vuelta on the GC, but they've got stage wins already, and let's bear in mind that we would rarely see a Bruyneel team attempt something as audacious as Caisse did in the Tour with Luisle, plus they had no fewer than 5 riders in that break in the L'Aquila stage to the Giro. They're not totally GC-irrelevant with Plaza up in 6th - he claims to be in better form than he was at the Tour - they could have a couple of guys in the top 10 at the end of the race, either by being the next one in after the élites (Tiralongo style), by getting into the right breaks (Deignan style) or by getting some attacking wins and then holding on to their GC position for dear life (Moncoutié style).

 

[khardung la]

Pamplona, and much of the rest of Navarra, has a large ethnic Basque population

Large ethnic basque population...Wow, ethnic. These kind of things are new for me in spite of being rooted there myself. Just out of curiosity do you mean "culturally" basque population or do you really mean ethnic (as in blood, genes etc..)?

As for what is Navarra...well an old kingdom way older than any basque political entity.

 

[hrotha]

Large ethnic basque population...Wow, ethnic. These kind of things are new for me in spite of being rooted there myself. Just out of curiosity do you mean "culturally" basque population or do you really mean ethnic (as in blood, genes etc..)?

As for what is Navarra...well an old kingdom way older than any basque political entity.

I'm afraid you're mistaken about what "ethnic" means. Properly speaking it has little or nothing to do with race or any such concept, even though in Spanish it's sometimes used that way.

 

[The Hitch]

Not the best stage, but at least they raced the climb. I like what i see from Xacebo. a kom contender, and they are working for Mosquera well as well. Watch this space tomorow.

 

[nvpacchi]

He is from Pamplona, Navarra. Not from the Vasque country.

There was talk on Euskaltel forums about EE trying to pick up Erviti if Movistar had not come along to save Caisse.

 

[khardung la]

There was talk on Euskaltel forums about EE trying to pick up Erviti if Movistar had not come along to save Caisse.

Yeah and Samuel Sanchez is from Asturias, 250 km far from the Vasque Country.

 

[hrotha]

Yeah and Samuel Sanchez is from Asturias, 250 km far from the Vasque Country.

Oh, don't pretend it's the same thing. Samuel Sánchez is there as someone who rode in Basque teams as an amateur. Erviti would be there as a Basque. Basques consider all of Navarre to be Basque, even if only a large minority of Navarrese agree.

 

[khardung la]

Oh, don't pretend it's the same thing. Samuel Sánchez is there as someone who rode in Basque teams as an amateur. Erviti would be there as a Basque. Basques consider all of Navarre to be Basque, even if only a large minority of Navarrese agree.

I don't pretend nothing. You seem to think that the interest of EE for Erviti makes him basque, but at the same time you recognize that just a minority of navarrese people consider themselves so (you said large minority, although the historical democratic composition of the Government of Navarra speaks against that).

The point was if Erviti is basque. He is not. I could say that he is italian, but that does not make him italian.

PS:Not all the basques would consider Navarra to be basque, by the way.

 

[nvpacchi]

I find it really hard to believe that EE would make an exception for Erviti to join the squad unless he had some sort of connection to the Basque region/culture/heritage/etc. in one way or another.

If Unai Etxebarria (former EE rider) was a Basque born in Venezuela, why can't Erviti be a Basque born/living in Navarre?

 

[Barrus]

I don't really know, but I heard today that he used to play some sort of Basque sport, which was why I presumed he would've been an ethnic Basque

 

[hrotha]

I find it really hard to believe that EE would make an exception for Erviti to join the squad unless he had some sort of connection to the Basque region/culture/heritage/etc. in one way or another.

If Unai Etxebarria (former EE rider) was a Basque born in Venezuela, why can't Erviti be a Basque born/living in Navarre?

As I said, for ethnic Basques (and again, for khardung's benefit, this only means people who speak Basque and who consider themselves Basque, not Spanish) all of Navarre is Basque. For EE, Erviti is Basque. A significant minority of Navarrese feel Basque, no matter what the Spanish nationalists say, so there's a good chance Erviti actually *is* Basque. Most Navarrese sportsmen won't say anything one way or another because who wants to get into muddy politics and deny yourself the chance of riding for a Pro Tour team?

 

[Arnout]

Erviti Ollo sounds Basque by the way.

 

[khardung la]

I find it really hard to believe that EE would make an exception for Erviti to join the squad unless he had some sort of connection to the Basque region/culture/heritage/etc. in one way or another.

If Unai Etxebarria (former EE rider) was a Basque born in Venezuela, why can't Erviti be a Basque born/living in Navarre?

Sure, and I can be a Chinese living in Sweden. Look, this is senseless. I just assume that you are from the US, so probably you would find strange that the people in Quebec would consider Massachusets their own territory, and would be all the time insisting in that.

Erviti may have a connection to the basque country, which is not strange since there haven't been a border between those regions in centuries. So EE also hires non-basques, cyclists from neighbouring regions that suit them for whatever strange reason.

That would be more acceptable than telling people like me that I am basque when I am from another region. I know what I am, we are all talking about a kingdom (Navarra) that was powerful and was founded in the year 824.

 

[hrotha]

Erviti Ollo sounds Basque by the way.

Yeah, but lots of people have Basque surnames up there, doesn't mean anything really*. Hell, even I have a Basque surname.

*Well, to be fair, it does mean the region used to be mostly Basque back in the day.

 

[Barrus]

Still a person can be ethnically Basque, even if he hails from another region, especially a region which harbors a minority of Basques amongst its population

 

[Arnout]

Sure, and I can be a Chinese living in Sweden. Look, this is senseless. I just assume that if you are from the US, so probably you would find strange that the people in Quebec would consider Massachusets their own territory, and would be all the time insisting in that.

Erviti may have a connection to the basque country, which is not strange since there haven't been a border between those regions in centuries. So EE also hires non-basques, cyclists from neighbouring regions that suit them for whatever strange reason.

That would be more acceptable than telling people like me that I am basque when I am from another region. I know what I am, we are all talking about a kingdom (Navarra) that was powerful and was founded in the year 824.

Seriously, know your history. Both Navarra and the current Basque country (as well as the Biarritz Bayonne part of France) was former Basque country. I assume you call Sicard an outsider too?

But when both Navarra and the Basque country were annexed by Madrid the Basque language was forbidden in Navarra and lots of Spaniards moved to the country to make it more Spanish. Resistance in the Basque country was more fierce and that's why Navarra is now "less" Basque than the Basque country.

But it doesn't mean people of Navarra are not Basque. In fact, nowadays Basque is together with Spanish the official language of the region.

But I guess ignorance is bliss.