Vuelta a España 2018 Rumours

[ice&fire]

The opening ITT will be 10km long.
The province of Málaga will host 3 stages and the departure of stage 4. There's strong interest in a stage finish at Caminito del Rey.
There will be between 8 and 10 hill/mountain top finishes, two of them new (from the twitter rumours these are Praeres and Oiz)
Big mountains will be the main feature in the last week, but a hard stage in the first week can't be ruled out. (considering the nonsense climb categorisation we usually see in the Vuelta nobody knows what 'big mountain' and 'hard stage' really means)
https://as.com/ciclismo/2017/10/23/vuelta_espana/1508765233_353192.html

 

[KyoGrey]

Don't know what to think about a stage in Catalonia. I don't really like too many stages abroad

Generally this looks like a typical vuelta route, with a ridiculous number of mtf's and many of them ridiculously steep. About Monte Oiz, I really want to see that climb used in a race, but then again, there is probably no place in the universe where you can make a more brutal medium mountain stage than the Basque Country. Therefore I'd be happy if they stop making mtf's like everywhere else in spain and instead make stages like we sometimes see in the Vuelta al Pais Vasco with climbs like Arrate (preferably one of the steeper sides) or Aia.

At this rate of street demonstrations in Catalonia in both sides to project their strength internationally, maybe we can expect millions of Catalans in the roads either with their Catalan&Spanish flag or with their Separatist flag.

Guinness record for biggest attendance at a cycling stage EVER. :lol:

 

[julianper]

Re:

Big mountains will be the main feature in the last week, but a hard stage in the first week can't be ruled out. (considering the nonsense climb categorisation we usually see in the Vuelta nobody knows what 'big mountain' and 'hard stage' really means)

A stage in La Covatilla will close the first week. This stage will have around 4000mD+ with near climbs: Honduras, Tremedal, Tornavacas, El Pico... 2 or 3 climbs before the Covatilla. I had bet for this one: https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/161470
Praeres (maybe another wall before it) and Monte Oiz's inclusion is almost certainly as well as Lagos, Camperona and Caminito del Rey. There are some uphill finishes too, like Fermoselle, Almaden or Pozo Alcón. And medium mountains stages in Almeria and Ourense.

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Re:

Big mountains will be the main feature in the last week, but a hard stage in the first week can't be ruled out. (considering the nonsense climb categorisation we usually see in the Vuelta nobody knows what 'big mountain' and 'hard stage' really means)

A stage in La Covatilla will close the first week. This stage will have around 4000mD+ with near climbs: Honduras, Tremedal, Tornavacas, El Pico... 2 or 3 climbs before the Covatilla. I had bet for this one: https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/161470
Praeres (maybe another wall before it) and Monte Oiz's inclusion is almost certainly as well as Lagos, Camperona and Caminito del Rey. There are some uphill finishes too, like Fermoselle, Almaden or Pozo Alcón. And medium mountains stages in Almeria and Ourense.

For the time being I prefer to stick to what is published by news media. Twitterland and the APM forums have been full of questionable rumours until last week such as stages in Murcia, Asturias before the first rest day and the final mountain stage in the Pyrenees.
To show you an example, it has been published that Guillén said the Vuelta would return to Extremadura.
http://www.hoy.es/deportes/ciclismo/javier-guillen-dice-20170905001503-ntvo.html
The course in the flamme rouge link you post has neither a stage departure or finish nor a single kilometre in that region. Not even in the stage to La Covatilla where they could arrive from the South climbing Honduras + whatever small climb as they did in 2004 and 2006. That route is simply inconsistent with Guillén's words.

Now, we're in for a little laugh. Unipublic is still in the search for originality regarding road surface. According to the link I posted yesterday the opening ITT will finish at a street paved with marble. It looks quite polished

 

[jfazendeiro]

Re: Re:

Big mountains will be the main feature in the last week, but a hard stage in the first week can't be ruled out. (considering the nonsense climb categorisation we usually see in the Vuelta nobody knows what 'big mountain' and 'hard stage' really means)

A stage in La Covatilla will close the first week. This stage will have around 4000mD+ with near climbs: Honduras, Tremedal, Tornavacas, El Pico... 2 or 3 climbs before the Covatilla. I had bet for this one: https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/161470
Praeres (maybe another wall before it) and Monte Oiz's inclusion is almost certainly as well as Lagos, Camperona and Caminito del Rey. There are some uphill finishes too, like Fermoselle, Almaden or Pozo Alcón. And medium mountains stages in Almeria and Ourense.

For the time being I prefer to stick to what is published by news media. Twitterland and the APM forums have been full of questionable rumours until last week such as stages in Murcia, Asturias before the first rest day and the final mountain stage in the Pyrenees.
To show you an example, it has been published that Guillén said the Vuelta would return to Extremadura.
http://www.hoy.es/deportes/ciclismo/javier-guillen-dice-20170905001503-ntvo.html
The course in the flamme rouge link you post has neither a stage departure or finish nor a single kilometre in that region. Not even in the stage to La Covatilla where they could arrive from the South climbing Honduras + whatever small climb as they did in 2004 and 2006. That route is simply inconsistent with Guillén's words.

Now, we're in for a little laugh. Unipublic is still in the search for originality regarding road surface. According to the link I posted yesterday the opening ITT will finish at a street paved with marble. It looks quite polished

☺

 

[ice&fire]

Monte Oiz confirmed by Basque news media. There's no info on the date of the stage.
http://www.diariovasco.com/deportes/ciclismo/vuelta-espana/monte-espectacular-final-20171025001217-ntvo.html

According to the link they'll do this side of the climb:

...which is a bit meh considering there is this alternative side

 

[Netserk]

All the way or only up until San Kristobal?

 

[ice&fire]

The text is not clear on that, but it says that the climb is 14km long and its 2 final kilometers along the the windfarm are never below 10%. If they want the finish to be 'spectacular' as they claimed when this was just a rumour they could set the finish line as high as possible with minimal infrastructure as they've done in Bola del Mundo, and leave team cars and press room at San Kristobal.

 

[ice&fire]

Cangas de Onís is bidding for a stage departure.
http://www.lne.es/deportes/2017/10/26/cangas-onis-aspira-salida-vuelta/2183378.html

The town is only 10km from the start of the climb to Lagos de Covadonga. Will Unipublic be tempted to beat the Tour at the most ridiculous mountain stage of 2018?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

Cangas de Onís is bidding for a stage departure.
http://www.lne.es/deportes/2017/10/26/cangas-onis-aspira-salida-vuelta/2183378.html

The town is only 10km from the start of the climb to Lagos de Covadonga. Will Unipublic be tempted to beat the Tour at the most ridiculous mountain stage of 2018?

Although it's moved away from the role recently, historically stages to Lagos de Covadonga would invariably lead to a following stage starting in Cangas de Onis. Literally every Covadonga stage until 2010 followed this format.

With the anniversary of the Picos de Europa though, a stage from Cangas to Los Lagos could reasonably be a decent stage with San Glorio, Pandetrave, Panderrueda but then a long descent before Covadonga, but let's face it, Lagos de Covadonga doesn't connect to any climb that well so invariably the role of earlier climbs would be as leg-softeners.

The other option is a Lagos de Covadonga MTT, which might be a good way to restore some of the big gaps and mythos to the climb.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

Cangas de Onís is bidding for a stage departure.
http://www.lne.es/deportes/2017/10/26/cangas-onis-aspira-salida-vuelta/2183378.html

The town is only 10km from the start of the climb to Lagos de Covadonga. Will Unipublic be tempted to beat the Tour at the most ridiculous mountain stage of 2018?

Although it's moved away from the role recently, historically stages to Lagos de Covadonga would invariably lead to a following stage starting in Cangas de Onis. Literally every Covadonga stage until 2010 followed this format.

With the anniversary of the Picos de Europa though, a stage from Cangas to Los Lagos could reasonably be a decent stage with San Glorio, Pandetrave, Panderrueda but then a long descent before Covadonga, but let's face it, Lagos de Covadonga doesn't connect to any climb that well so invariably the role of earlier climbs would be as leg-softeners.

The other option if they aren't starting the subsequent stage there is a Lagos de Covadonga MTT, which might be a good way to restore some of the big gaps and mythos to the climb.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Covadonga was a great show in 2016, although the gaps werent as high admitedly..

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Covadonga was a great show in 2016, although the gaps werent as high admitedly..

Agreed. Think there might have been tailwind that year as all the climbing times were through the roof.

 

[Forever The Best]

It seems like the Vuelta wants to design one of the worst GT routes ever for 2018. Maybe even the worst.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Covadonga was a great show in 2016, although the gaps werent as high admitedly..

Agreed. Think there might have been tailwind that year as all the climbing times were through the roof.

I think the times were so great because the race exploded way earlier than usually on this ascent. If Froome hadn't dropped the pace of the peloton would have been way slower and Quintana and Contador would have attacked way later. All that combined made the climb extremely fast. And let's not forget, Froome rode the whole climb as a MTT so he probably really couldn't have gone faster and still he wasn't able to beat Quintana.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Covadonga was a great show in 2016, although the gaps werent as high admitedly..

Agreed. Think there might have been tailwind that year as all the climbing times were through the roof.

I think the times were so great because the race exploded way earlier than usually on this ascent. If Froome hadn't dropped the pace of the peloton would have been way slower and Quintana and Contador would have attacked way later. All that combined made the climb extremely fast. And let's not forget, Froome rode the whole climb as a MTT so he probably really couldn't have gone faster and still he wasn't able to beat Quintana.

Difference to previous years was around 1'30" if I remember correctly. I don't think the difference between an all out ascent from the bottom and a conservative ascent are that big usually.

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Re:

Covadonga was a great show in 2016, although the gaps werent as high admitedly..

Agreed. Think there might have been tailwind that year as all the climbing times were through the roof.

I think the times were so great because the race exploded way earlier than usually on this ascent. If Froome hadn't dropped the pace of the peloton would have been way slower and Quintana and Contador would have attacked way later. All that combined made the climb extremely fast. And let's not forget, Froome rode the whole climb as a MTT so he probably really couldn't have gone faster and still he wasn't able to beat Quintana.

Difference to previous years was around 1'30" if I remember correctly. I don't think the difference between an all out ascent from the bottom and a conservative ascent are that big usually.

The three previous ascents were worst than conservative. The last two were basically Contador, Valverde and Purito playing cat and mouse all the way up. The other one was world class climber Mosquera. In all of these three Covadonga was the second of three consecutive MTFs before the rest day; last year it was last before rest day.

 

[julianper]

The last stage will take place in Andorra. It will be a Mountain ITT, from Ordino to Ordino-Arcalis. Neither a long flat ITT can fix this Vuelta: there isn't good mountain (or medium mountain) stages enough to fix it.

https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/tours/view/7174

 

[Valv.Piti]

I just realized that Monte Oiz is very similar to Hazallanas (my favourite climb in the Vuelta), the difference only being Hazallanes is steepest in the bortom and Oiz after the middle. Legit a monstrous climb and makes some of the other steep stuff the Vuelta is doing pretty silly. I think it could be a a very good stage, probably similar to the stage Denifl won. Somehow I cant remember than name.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

The last stage will take place in Andorra. It will be a Mountain ITT, from Ordino to Ordino-Arcalis. Neither a long flat ITT can fix this Vuelta: there isn't good mountain (or medium mountain) stages enough to fix it.

https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/tours/view/7174

Last or penultimate stage?


It's all looking dreadfull

There's one thing I'm thinking right now.

Dumoulin for Giro-Vuelta?

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I just realized that Monte Oiz is very similar to Hazallanas (my favourite climb in the Vuelta), the difference only being Hazallanes is steepest in the bortom and Oiz after the middle. Legit a monstrous climb and makes some of the other steep stuff the Vuelta is doing pretty silly. I think it could be a a very good stage, probably similar to the stage Denifl won. Somehow I cant remember than name.

The ascent from the north? Yes, without a doubt that's a brutal climb. But the rumored ascent from the south is in my opinion one of the worst climbs for a mtf I can imagine. I like the start of the climb with super steep and false flat kilometers alternating. If the finish was at kilometer 6 on the profile @ice&fire posted I'd like that. But the huge problem is that the last of these steep ramps is followed by 7 kilometers with a gradient of 4.4% and the steepest ramp on that section is 11% steep. Absolutely nobody will attack on or before that section. So everything comes down to the last 2 kilometers. So we have a 15 kilometers climb with 2 kilometers of potential action...in a basque country stage...great. That's a bit like making a dolomites stage in the giro which finishes with a tre cime mtf but they use the side of the climb which starts in Toblach. Although actually even that would be way better.
Meanwhile this climb will probably get hyped up by the media as the new big basque country mountain top finish. I can't wait.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I just realized that Monte Oiz is very similar to Hazallanas (my favourite climb in the Vuelta), the difference only being Hazallanes is steepest in the bortom and Oiz after the middle. Legit a monstrous climb and makes some of the other steep stuff the Vuelta is doing pretty silly. I think it could be a a very good stage, probably similar to the stage Denifl won. Somehow I cant remember than name.

The ascent from the north? Yes, without a doubt that's a brutal climb. But the rumored ascent from the south is in my opinion one of the worst climbs for a mtf I can imagine. I like the start of the climb with super steep and false flat kilometers alternating. If the finish was at kilometer 6 on the profile @ice&fire posted I'd like that. But the huge problem is that the last of these steep ramps is followed by 7 kilometers with a gradient of 4.4% and the steepest ramp on that section is 11% steep. Absolutely nobody will attack on or before that section. So everything comes down to the last 2 kilometers. So we have a 15 kilometers climb with 2 kilometers of potential action...in a basque country stage...great. That's a bit like making a dolomites stage in the giro which finishes with a tre cime mtf but they use the side of the climb which starts in Toblach. Although actually even that would be way better.
Meanwhile this climb will probably get hyped up by the media as the new big basque country mountain top finish. I can't wait.

Yes. If they use the that side of the Monte Oiz it is nothing but proof that they're deliberately designing a garbage route

 

[yaco]

We know very little about the route and it's already garbage. Recent history says the Vuelta routes have been fine. They are very much different to the Giro and the TDF which make them interesting.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

We know very little about the route and it's already garbage. Recent history says the Vuelta routes have been fine. They are very much different to the Giro and the TDF which make them interesting.

Recent routes having good racing is almost purely circumstance. And it's not the endless murito finishes that have caused that.

This year's route was ok, except for the most important stages being way too short. But they're walking a dangerous road and if they drop the ball further on mountain stages it's really gonna be dire.

 

[gregrowlerson]

But isn't it good to have a climb where the harder sections are at the bottom, so as to encourage attacks from further out?

Also, an Arcalis MTT would be great. The climbs isn't tough enough to provide big gaps these days on a road stage, but for an ITT it is perfect imo.

Hopefully there is also a flat ITT somewhere.