Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2020: Stage 11 (Villaviciosa › Alto de La Farrapona. Lagos de Somiedo 170km)

[titan31]

Roglic is racing close to 100% since the beginning of August. This is his second Grand Tour. He invested a lot the last days to get the red jersey back. Just give him a break. If he has anything left in the tank, he can fly tomorrow.

This is the 2nd GT of all the top 5 tbf. Mas rode just as hard in the Tour as Roglic. Carapaz came as a superdom and had to try rescue Ineos' tour. It's not Roglic is up against guys who are very fresh here

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Mareczko's climbing legs disappeared again, and he's out of the race.

 

[Red Rick]

This is the 2nd GT of all the top 5 tbf. Mas rode just as hard in the Tour as Roglic. Carapaz came as a superdom and had to try rescue Ineos' tour. It's not Roglic is up against guys who are very fresh here

Roglic did LBL and WCRR and was on form for them. Carthy and Martin were nowhere in the Tour.

 

[gunara]

Mareczko's climbing legs disappeared again, and he's out of the race.

Then at least the stage did something to someone

 

[titan31]

Roglic did LBL and WCRR and was on form for them. Carthy and Martin were nowhere in the Tour.

With exception of Fleche instead of WCRR, Martin's done the exact same schedule as Roglic. Carthy has a few different races but relative same amount of miles. Carapaz has a different Tour build up with Burgos, Poland and Lombardy but again pretty similar.

They've all got similar miles and fatigue in their legs

 

[Luthor]

Enric Mas (Movistar Team): “It was our plan, to have Marc [Soler] at the front so he can try to win the stage and gain some time on GC. I felt very good myself. It was a very fast start and then I had great sensations so I was able to sprint with the fast guys who had been just a notch above me in the past occasions. Tomorrow is very open, with a short stage that can open differences.”
Mas kept himself sharp for the sprint He felt very good, tomorrow Mas win on Angliru?

 

[hrotha]

Personally I'm struggling to see why Roglič's busier schedule shouldn't mean that he's in even more of a hurry to take time early on.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

With exception of Fleche instead of WCRR, Martin's done the exact same schedule as Roglic. Carthy has a few different races but relative same amount of miles. Carapaz has a different Tour build up with Burgos, Poland and Lombardy but again pretty similar.

They've all got similar miles and fatigue in their legs

Having ridden a similar amount of miles, doesn't mean they have the same amount of fatigue though. Martin and Carapaz didn't have to be fully alert every day of the Tour for instance. And in Roglic's case there's definitely more of a mental exhaustion in play as well.

 

[Luthor]

Personally I'm struggling to see why Roglič's busier schedule shouldn't mean that he's in even more of a hurry to take time early on.

Because you're more tired therefore more possible to crack? If Roglic attacks, the others respond and they attack him he is risking getting himself dropped. Mas looked better than Roglic at the end of the stage, he even joked with the cameraman, Roglic was spent. When Roglic is feeling good, TJV would drill it like it happened with Gesink on Moncalvillo. Today Roglic was vulnerable but only Martin tried something but very late.

Also I've read somewhere there was headwind so attacks got hindered.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1322578744595329026

View: https://twitter.com/faustocoppi60/status/1322578744595329026

 

[SafeBet]

Always a headwind when nothing happens.

 

[SafeBet]

BTW Sosa finished 36 minutes down, even behind Cameron Wurf who worked a lot at the front through the stage. Either he's sick or in the worst shape of his life.

 

[Cannavaro]

Personally I'm struggling to see why Roglič's busier schedule shouldn't mean that he's in even more of a hurry to take time early on.

He already gained time on:
Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3
Stage 5 (did not count)
Stage 8
Stage 10
Now its its time to optimize the chances that he does not crack. If he does not crack, he wins the Vuelta

 

[Eclipse]

Enric Mas (Movistar Team): “It was our plan, to have Marc [Soler] at the front so he can try to win the stage and gain some time on GC. I felt very good myself. It was a very fast start and then I had great sensations so I was able to sprint with the fast guys who had been just a notch above me in the past occasions. Tomorrow is very open, with a short stage that can open differences.”
Mas kept himself sharp for the sprint He felt very good, tomorrow Mas win on Angliru?

No chance.

Not surprised he felt his legs were good given the slow climb lol

 

[titan31]

Having ridden a similar amount of miles, doesn't mean they have the same amount of fatigue though. Martin and Carapaz didn't have to be fully alert every day of the Tour for instance. And in Roglic's case there's definitely more of a mental exhaustion in play as well.

Martin and Carthy I can see would have had a relatively easier Tour, but Carapaz had to ride pretty hard out after Bernal left the race. Might not have been a GC contender but attacked multiple days in attempts to stages and mountain jersey.

Mas was a GC contender then so definitely rode as hard

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I don't think Soler "wasted" much time trying to win the stage, you could see it when the sprint started that he had basically spent all his energy already, it's not like he saved a lot to the sprint and still lost.

 

[batalyaw]

Carapaz has lost the best chance to gain time on Roglic and also wear him down.

 

[Rackham]

Carapaz has lost the best chance to gain time on Roglic and also wear him down.

Today was about Jumbo working for Roglic, & they did. It's standard stuff we've seen again & again over the decades (i.e. domestiques riding tempo & preventing GC rivals from attacking the leader).

The onus was on Carapaz & the others to put time on Roglic before the time trial & today's result is one less day where they could have done exactly that. I haven't read through the comments here but if anyone is complaining about a lack of action in today's monster stage, look at Carapaz, Martin & Carthy. It's their terrain & their chance before the time trial.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Martin and Carthy I can see would have had a relatively easier Tour, but Carapaz had to ride pretty hard out after Bernal left the race. Might not have been a GC contender but attacked multiple days in attempts to stages and mountain jersey.

Mas was a GC contender then so definitely rode as hard

Mas didn't ride as hard or was just further from his best shape in the buildup to the Tour and only rode the WC RR afterwards (where he dropped out). And he definitely wasn't under the same kind of pressure as Roglic was under during the Tour and is under now at the Vuelta.

That doesn't mean, that Mas ins't just as tired as Roglic is. But he came out of the Tour with pride and confidence. Roglic might not have had the same feelings. And we still don't know how much he was affected by the crash in Dauphiné.

Carapaz might have ridden hard during the Tour, but he was always meant to peak later, so who knows how hard he trained before he got called into the Tour squad? And still he wasn't under the same pressure from the media and public as Bernal was and Froome/Thomas would have been.

 

[BlueRoads]

Today was about Jumbo working for Roglic, & they did. It's standard stuff we've seen again & again over the decades (i.e. domestiques riding tempo & preventing GC rivals from attacking the leader).

The onus was on Carapaz & the others to put time on Roglic before the time trial & today's result is one less day where they could have done exactly that. I haven't read through the comments here but if anyone is complaining about a lack of action in today's monster stage, look at Carapaz, Martin & Carthy. It's their terrain & their chance before the time trial.

I agree - problem is, when you see five Jumbos while you yourself are on your own you probably don't feel like attacking. Roglic and the Jumbos are just the strongest. Movistar tried something today, it looked a bit funny again, but I have to admit, they actually tried. They just have the weaker riders.

 

[broppo]

no rain tomorrow, this vuelta is done, boring stuff!

 

[oldcrank]

The Jumbots are ruining the Grand Tours! The UCI has to reduce team sizes!

 

[Red Rick]

Guy in white on the left roleplaying as the CN forum from 2009-2017.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I agree - problem is, when you see five Jumbos while you yourself are on your own you probably don't feel like attacking. Roglic and the Jumbos are just the strongest. Movistar tried something today, it looked a bit funny again, but I have to admit, they actually tried. They just have the weaker riders.

True as that may be, if there are five Jumbos there, then there are at least a couple who are expendable to up the pace and get rid of some stragglers, but they always seem to be happy to roll in in a group of 15 behind their third best rider until the last 300m lest Sepp Kuss have to put his nose in the wind on more than one day a race. The way that Jumbo use, or rather don't use, Kuss achieves nothing from a racing point of view, and just perpetuates the meme.

 

[BlueRoads]

True as that may be, if there are five Jumbos there, then there are at least a couple who are expendable to up the pace and get rid of some stragglers, but they always seem to be happy to roll in in a group of 15 behind their third best rider until the last 300m lest Sepp Kuss have to put his nose in the wind on more than one day a race. The way that Jumbo use, or rather don't use, Kuss achieves nothing from a racing point of view, and just perpetuates the meme.

Kuss has been scouted because he looks so incredibly relaxed, he's there to pretend they all could go on climbing steep mountains for 600 more days without tiring.

 

[Cannavaro]

With exception of Fleche instead of WCRR, Martin's done the exact same schedule as Roglic. Carthy has a few different races but relative same amount of miles. Carapaz has a different Tour build up with Burgos, Poland and Lombardy but again pretty similar.

They've all got similar miles and fatigue in their legs

The intensity plays a huge role. Roglic tried to win the Tour de l'Ain, the Criterium Dauphine Libere, the Tour de France the World Championship and Liege-Bastogne-Liege and had to produce a lot of excellent efforts. I have a nice database of climbing times (of course it does not contain all climbs, but a lot). One can count how long a rider rode 6W/kg and so on climbs I measured this year:

W/kg	Roglic	Carapaz	Mas	Martin	Carthy
>8	3:38	0	0	2:46	0
>7.5	7:29	0	0	2:46	0
>7	14:58	0	0	2:46	0
>6.5	2:05:36	1:56:34	1:31:16	38:07	1:11:16
>6	4:52:42	3:37:37	6:02:41	1:50:52	3:26:58
>5.5	9:17:17	6:08:29	8:19:03	3:33:58	4:00:48

This means that Roglic rode at least 5.5 W/kg for 9 hours 17 minutes and 17 seconds and so on.
I did not noticed that Mas had a long Season, too. However, Roglic had a lot more high intensity efforts.