Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2020: Stage 7 (Vitoria-Gasteiz > Villanueva de Valdegovia, 159,7 km)

[Kaptain Kool]

I agree with Koronin that Wood's actions are bad for cycling. At the very least, he should get a DSQ.
IMHO the UCI should discourage negative racing against Officially Designated All-Time Greats (Valverde, Sagan, Evenepoel, Van der Poel, any other ODATGs?). A potential disqualification or ban would make the Negitvers think twice.

 

[movingtarget]

Woods was the fastest to the line. There was no bad luck for any other rider. He simply outsmarted them. He deserved the win.

The person who does the most work doesn't necessarily deserve the win

That's fine but other riders will remember that. It's all part of the sport. You also see situations where the rider that does the least amount of work also loses. It's rarely a sure thing.

 

[Scarponi]

Woods has always worked pretty hard in breaks before today. Doubt he will have a reputation.

 

[Koronin]

Woods has always worked pretty hard in breaks before today. Doubt he will have a reputation.

He's hurt that today just so he could get a stage win. It will be remembered.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Well, I guess they say love is blind.

 

[tobydawq]

He's hurt that today just so he could get a stage win. It will be remembered.

It won't.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

It won't.

It will by one person.

 

[tobydawq]

It will by one person.

The Yorkshirean weather would never be forgiven either by her, yet I assume it has continued undeterredly to be wet and clammy. So will Woods continue to be a world-class and well respected bike rider.

 

[RedheadDane]

Movistar still holds a grudge against Sky/Ineos for what happened in 2012.

They told you that? Coz it sure isn't clear from their riding. But anyway, even though a few riders/teams might be angry - for a while - I really don't think Mickaël Delage - and the rest of the FDJ team - will give many flying fucks.

 

[King Boonen]

If we're bringing up old races lets remember Milano Torino 2019 where Woods literally rode Valverde off his wheel, after starting the winning move and fighting against Gaudu, and went on to win. Or LBL 2019 where Woods launched the attack that made the final selection and worked with Fuglsang and Formolo as far as he could even though he didn't have the legs.

But it's a win on a rearranged Vuelta in a massively reduced, weird calendar, that is apparently going to define him as a rider for the rest of his career...

 

[LaFlorecita]

I'm not sure he's fully recovered yet.
He has DNFed a ton of races after the season resumed.

He is definitely not anywhere near his level before the crash. It was a serious injury, so it's not crazy to think he needs some extra time to get strong again.

 

[Bolder]

There is no way Woods should have worked for Valverde in the Vuelta. In fact no rider should work for Valverde in the Vuelta.

He was second last year, he's now in the top 10, and Movistar riders are a threat to Carthy.
EF isn't a GC team, they're scrapping for any positive signs, so yeah, Woods did the right thing.

Clearly it wasn't popular in the break -- they were all yelling at him etc -- but he'd also created the winning move himself with 20k to go. Woods is a solid journeyman rider coming off a serious injury moving to another team. He might not get many more chances. Whereas Valverde, an all-time talent, has won his fair share of races, let's just say.

As for how long this animus against Woods could last, we only have to look to MVDP/WvA. Wout unloaded on Mathieu for sitting on during Ghent-Wevelghem, yet only days later they cooperated at the Tour of Flanders.

Fun subject to debate. Love Koronin's passion even if it verges into irrationality at times. We need to create a Michael Woods is a DISGUSTING WHEELSUCKER thread now...

 

[LaFlorecita]

If he had been on, say, Burgos-BH or something where a stage win is the max they can expect from the race and he pulled this stunt, sure he'd get criticised for it.

Really? I feel like an underdog team could pull such a trick with little consequence. For such a team a stage win would make their race and possibly their whole year, so they'd be excused for sitting on and maximising their chances.

 

[LaFlorecita]

That climb is one of those everyone was dong the same amount of work because there was no "draft". It was an everyone for them-self climb. Those attempted attacks on the desent were funny because Bardet and Valverde are much better descenders than Woods. Bardet and Valverde were working well together on the flat and Woods did skip several turns because he was sure he could beat Valverde in a sprint if he didn't work. He lost and now he's an even bigger wheel sucker than he was then. He will suffer payback. The ONLY reason Dumoulin got back is his a superior TTer.

Woods knew it would be mission impossible to win the sprint versus Valverde so he skipped some turns to maximize his chances. Same story as today.

Please tell us what Valverde has done all of this year to show he is even capable to staying with the top climbers at la Vuelta and that includes the first week of la Vuelta.

Your 2 points PROVE again he had no interest in helping Carthy just himself. Carthy very likely losses time tomorrow.

Mas has shown in the past that he can do a major turn around over the course of a 3 week race.

Valverde has always relied on his consistency which is there, but at a lower level. There is literally nothing this year OR in his past to say he can improve his level that much in any race.

So, there are 4 MTFs left, and because Valverde loses 1 minute on each MTF anyway, should they have just given him a free 5 minutes yesterday? That's not how it works. You never know what will happen. Valverde could grow into the race, or the race could explode at one point with groups all over the road and Valverde finds himself in the first group taking 5 minutes. You don't give a potential rival free time.

 

[SafeBet]

He is definitely not anywhere near his level before the crash. It was a serious injury, so it's not crazy to think he needs some extra time to get strong again.

Yeah according to some reports he couldn't ride his bike for 3 months. I don't know if that's true but that's a really long time.

 

[SafeBet]

Clearly it wasn't popular in the break -- they were all yelling at him etc -- but he'd also created the winning move himself with 20k to go.

I heard Woods talking about the stage on the Cycling Podcast and he said Valverde was a real gentleman when Woods explained why he wasn't pulling. He didn't complain at all.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

He's hurt that today just so he could get a stage win. It will be remembered.

Do you have any quotes from riders, team managers, cycling journalists or anybody who might be in a position to treat Woods differently because of this 'reputational damage' to the effect that they consider his tactics today, yet alone him, 'disgusting', or even questionable?

David Millar on the matter (ITV commentary, 9.7km to go) : "He is totally in the right to not sit on (I assume he misspoke, and meant 'to sit on') and play his cards, and his cards are to save as much energy to be able to actually do one huge attack to leave them."
Immediately after the finish "The tactics he used today were exceptional: a magnificent win for him and on, I think, he will be so proud of."
In later chat:" He read that like a book, he looked like a seasoned campaigner, he looked like a Alejandro Valverde who was tactically perfectly astute. Credit to him, he was very gutsy and rode it perfectly."

In other words, it's OK to try to win in a race.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Really? I feel like an underdog team could pull such a trick with little consequence. For such a team a stage win would make their race and possibly their whole year, so they'd be excused for sitting on and maximising their chances.

If a rider as strong as Michael Woods is on a team like that, he's their undisputed leader.

 

[Koronin]

Woods knew it would be mission impossible to win the sprint versus Valverde so he skipped some turns to maximize his chances. Same story as today.




So, there are 4 MTFs left, and because Valverde loses 1 minute on each MTF anyway, should they have just given him a free 5 minutes yesterday? That's not how it works. You never know what will happen. Valverde could grow into the race, or the race could explode at one point with groups all over the road and Valverde finds himself in the first group taking 5 minutes. You don't give a potential rival free time.

Please tell me what gives ANYONE any idea that Valverde's climbing is going to get any better in this race than it currently is? So please show any evidence from THIS YEAR that says he can do ANYTHING more than lose at least 1 minute on ALL mountain top finishes? Doesn't mean he won't finish in the top 10, but there is nothing to indicate his climbing will get any better than it currently is. Actually the opposite is more likely.

I heard Woods talking about the stage on the Cycling Podcast and he said Valverde was a real gentleman when Woods explained why he wasn't pulling. He didn't complain at all.

According to several reports (including one at AS) Valverde was asked about that. Valverde said there was no conversation with Woods. Woods gave him the excuse and he never responded and never had any conversation. Woods can say what he wants, but he never got a response and Valverde never accepted the excuse.

 

[Cian]

Please tell me what gives ANYONE any idea that Valverde's climbing is going to get any better in this race than it currently is? So please show any evidence from THIS YEAR that says he can do ANYTHING more than lose at least 1 minute on ALL mountain top finishes? Doesn't mean he won't finish in the top 10, but there is nothing to indicate his climbing will get any better than it currently is. Actually the opposite is more likely.



According to several reports (including one at AS) Valverde was asked about that. Valverde said there was no conversation with Woods. Woods gave him the excuse and he never responded and never had any conversation. Woods can say what he wants, but he never got a response and Valverde never accepted the excuse.

Why does any evidence need to be from this year?
Valverde was 2nd at last years Vuelta and has podiumed multiple Grand Tours, it isn't difficult to see how he could be viewed as a threat.

 

[Koronin]

Why does any evidence need to be from this year?
Valverde was 2nd at last years Vuelta and has podiumed multiple Grand Tours, it isn't difficult to see how he could be viewed as a threat.

What does what he did in the past have to do with what he's done this year? The reason I need evidence from this year is so far there is NOTHING to show he can climb very well at all, let alone climb well enough to compete for anything useful. If he was capable of competing he would NOT be losing a minute on EVERY single mountain top finish. So yes it is very difficult to see where he's a threat to anyone who is capable of competing for the overall.

 

[Cian]

What does what he did in the past have to do with what he's done this year? The reason I need evidence from this year is so far there is NOTHING to show he can climb very well at all, let alone climb well enough to compete for anything useful. If he was capable of competing he would NOT be losing a minute on EVERY single mountain top finish. So yes it is very difficult to see where he's a threat to anyone who is capable of competing for the overall.

I think Valverde's past results are highly relevant as to whether or not he is a GC threat. Past results show us that Alejandro Valverde is definitely capable of competing at the Vuelta.

 

[Koronin]

I think Valverde's past results are highly relevant as to whether or not he is a GC threat. Past results show us that Alejandro Valverde is definitely capable of competing at the Vuelta.

According to past results he wouldn't be 3 plus minutes down currently AND would have at least 5 wins on the season so far.

 

[Cian]

According to past results he wouldn't be 3 plus minutes down currently AND would have at least 5 wins on the season so far.

So because Valverde has been below par in an interrupted season Woods should assume his form can never improve again and help him move up the GC and win a stage.

 

[Koronin]

So because Valverde has been below par in an interrupted season Woods should assume his form can never improve again and help him move up the GC and win a stage.

He was well below part long BEFORE the interruption started.
Also Carthy DROPPED two spots today. Thus proving that his supposed being so worried about Valverde was the WRONG person to be worried about. Actually since Carthy LOST time and LOST the podium what Woods did actually HURT his teammate.