Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2021: Stage 20 (Sanxenxo - Castro de Herville, 202.2 km)

[Escarabajo]

The only thing that would make sense apart from a meltdown is that he wanted to attack earlier and were denied. I mean way before Bernal went.

And that doesn't feel likely.

Where did you read or heard that?

 

[BlueRoads]

I don't get that either.
However, the order could have been made with the assumption that they were going to come back because the mountain was almost over. And all of a sudden the gap opened in a hurry. Then Movistar could have realized about the error. Especially that they didn't have anyone helping him. The funny thing is that Lopez had just responded to an attack. He looked OK. I don't understand.

It only would make sense if Movistar gambled on it coming back together and Roglic being tired from the work in the group because Roglic was their only rival... but that would have been a weird gamble... why should someone like Roglic crumble from a little effort; the groups not coming back together was way more probable...?

I really need to watch it...

 

[BlueRoads]

It's exactly why I dislike it.

Zomg what an achievement that the Vuelta changed the points system and Philipsen went home.

Okay, but after the year that Jakobsen had I still find it nice. Next year I'm going to be harder on them

 

[roundabout]

Haig responded to Bernal's attack and was in the move that went away. So either Lopez did not have it or it was a collective case of brains freezing up in the Movistar camp (Lopez included).

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I was reminded of Cavendish's comment about getting into an echelon being like sprinting to get off an ice floe before it detaches. Haig responded twice to do that, Lopez did not.

To a large extent, most of what happened today was determined in those few seconds.

 

[Leinster]

Now here's a question completely unrelated to Lopez:
The DQ riders finished side-by-side, so how was it decided in which order they should be listed on the result sheet? Did someone get the - frankly, unnecessary - task of checking the finish-line photo, or did they just draw straws?

Let the transponders do it? Mark them down in the order their tags have them cross the line? I think that's how it's done at various triathlons/5k funruns etc up and down the land that have electronic timing.

 

[jmdirt]

Now here's a question completely unrelated to Lopez:
The DQ riders finished side-by-side, so how was it decided in which order they should be listed on the result sheet? Did someone get the - frankly, unnecessary - task of checking the finish-line photo, or did they just draw straws?

eeny meeny miny moe

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

After thinking a bit about it, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a mixture of bad planning and lack of adapting.

If you look at how stage 17 went, I think Movistar were anticipating Ineos to do something similar and given that they have a 1-2 of similar quality to Yates/Bernal they probably planned to have one guy always marking the other so you would get to sit on, have someone up the road and don't have to work in either cases. They already tried this on stage 17 but Lopez was asleep and missed the move.

Now, this stage, the first climbs approach, Ineos up the pace just as expected and the DS is probably on the radio, Lopez to mark Bernal, Mas to mark Yates. In theory a good strategy because you don't want to follow each individuel move and get tired.
First part goes according to plan:
Yates attacks -> Mas follows, everyone follows.
Bernal attacks -> Lopez follows, everyone follows.
Yates attacks again -> Mas follows. Now the big difference, while for the first two moves, Haig marked both but Mäder struggled at the back, this time he is there together with Haig and they counter. And I think Lopez just realized this too late and was kinda ambushed.
Bernal obviously sits in because he has less to lose, doesn't care about 5th in GC and has a teammate up front. So there was a window of about 20 seconds were Lopez probably didn't realize that he had to react and given that it flattened out at that moment and draft matters quite a lot and it was done.

Now, Lopez and their DS are blaiming each other but they probably simply underestimated Haig to do something and not just follow wheels like in the last few days. Eyes full on Ineos but way more to lose.

 

[jmdirt]

Congrats CC! Way to race your ars off!

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Nice to see Gibbons on the podium

Let’s not spend too much arguing about (potentially) fake news, and rather celebrate gutsy, maniacal finish by Champoussin, what a champ!! Chapeau!

Could've, should've... what did actually happen is what counts.

I thought it was a fun stage - Champoussin won it, Gibbons gave it his all, Jakobsen is still in the green, Roglic is, well, Roglic, and somewhere in those lovely green forests MAL is having a word with himself and he will hopefully find himself shortly. It is what it is.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Because he's (Lopez) extremely emotional and temperamental (or at least he appears to be temperamental). So that's where it makes sense. Marc Soler may have thrown a fit when he was called back to help Quintana, but he also didn't abandon the race and did help later in the race.

Yea, but Marc Soler was knowingly third at best in the hierarchy there. López is somebody who is at worst a 1B option. So Soler was angry and frustrated but it was a stage win he was asked to throw away, not a GC podium, and he was sacrificed for a guy who was justifiably above him in the food chain. Soler therefore is in the position where it's like, well, that sucks, but swallow your pride and move on. And for all that Soler has the reputation of being a hot-head, Supermán is even more of one. And with no Verona, the help they were able to offer with only three rouleurs left was pretty minimal, even if Rojas buried himself.

Let's remember though, Movistar have had issues like this at the Vuelta before. In 1996 Miguel Indurain retired from the race after a pajará and a widely broadcast fight with the team car. And in 1998, well, I shouldn't have to go into the insubordination of 1998, which got pretty unsavoury.

And while your blind devotion to Valverde might be excessive at times (and you have really undersold Supermán a lot as a result of this frequently too), they really missed his presence to defuse the ticking time bomb.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I refuse to believe the team car told him NOT to chase. Because well, thats just stupid....

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I refuse to believe the team car told him NOT to chase. Because well, thats just stupid....

He rides for Movistar.

 

[RedheadDane]

It's exactly why I dislike it.

Zomg what an achievement that the Vuelta changed the points system and Philipsen went home.

Hardly Jakobsen's fault that Philipsen went home...

 

[Valv.Piti]

He rides for Movistar.

Yes, and while they are not the tactically best in the peloton, its often exaggerated massively on this forum. But sure, you cant rule it out I guess, but man, its just counterproductive.

 

[noob]

“He’s a great person and has shown that to everyone these last days. We’ll see what happened and we’ll talk. It was the first thing I was told when I finished, but I don’t know anything about it.”

Rojas <3

 

[Lequack]

What would be funny is if Movistar would try to do explainin it away like "Lopez got stung by a bee, therefore he had to abandon"

 

[staubsauger]

I haven't watched a replay, but think I saw Lopez marking a first attack from Bernal and when everyone reached to them Yates made the counterattack that created the gap. I'd say Lopez and Bernal didn't have the legs to follow.

Bernal was at the back of his own teams pacemaking, once Yates took over from Sivakov the first time. He clearly was absolute horse crap today. Hence why his attack didn't stuck, but Yates' actually gapped him.

Zero clue why Bengsch kept saying Bernal had great legs today. He clearly neither had today nor Thursday. Either that or he simply isn't as good as we thought in 2019.

Lopez was unlucky. I understand his frustration. Especially if Movistar indeed told him to not chase. But they were actually riding tempo at one point, until it became crystal clear it's a potato chase!

After all Lopez has attacked Mas multiple times during this Vuelta a Espana. Of course not openly . But Mas didn't even once make a true move in López disadvantage. Dumoulin and Carapaz sat at home laughing if they saw it today.

Lopez is an idiot. It's nothing new eventually. We know this ever since 2018 to be honest. He proves his continuesly ever since. Nice rider to watch still. Even feel sorry for him as I said. But that doesn't change the fact that overall he's a dumber. How often he hasn't pulled? Even in situations it would've made sense for himself.

 

[Gigs_98]

So as I wrote I missed most of the stage but looking at what happened now I'm just so completely baffled by the Movistar tactics. No matter if he got instructions from the team or not, playing the "one guy attacks the other one sits back" game when literally every important rider except Bernal is in the attack is so extraordinarily stupid. And it's not even like it was complicated to think of whether you should follow a move or not. There was exactly one reason not to follow a move and that was if Roglic had not followed it either. But no matter the racing situation, if Roglic is in the group in front there is absolutely nothing MAL possibly could have achieved by staying behind. Nothing. This decision is honestly in the pantheon of inexplicably bad tactical moves. Absolutely inexcusable.

 

[motty89]

I know movistar are often criticised for their tactics but surely even they wouldn't tell lopez not to follow?! Have to think he just followed bernals attack then didn't have the legs when Yates went.

Think I heard that netflix aren't making a movi docu for this season? Such a shame, would have been worth it for this stage alone!

 

[Valv.Piti]

So as I wrote I missed most of the stage but looking at what happened now I'm just so completely baffled by the Movistar tactics. No matter if he got instructions from the team or not, playing the "one guy attacks the other one sits back" game when literally every important rider except Bernal is in the attack is so extraordinarily stupid. And it's not even like it was complicated to think of whether you should follow a move or not. There was exactly one reason not to follow a move and that was if Roglic had not followed it either. But no matter the racing situation, if Roglic is in the group in front there is absolutely nothing MAL possibly could have achieved by staying behind. Nothing. This decision is honestly in the pantheon of inexplicably bad tactical moves. Absolutely inexcusable.

Yes, if thats the case. That didnt look like the case though - he missed the move and wasnt strong enough to bridge. It really had nothing to do with tactics.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He rides for Movistar.

This feels more like a Rabobank or Lampre move to be honest.

 

[Valv.Piti]

This feels more like a Rabobank or Lampre move to be honest.

Oh, the nostalgia of those teams..

 

[Escarabajo]

I really don't believe the news that Movistar ordered him to slow down. Having said that, the attack that he didn't follow was so clumsy and he looked so strong that I cannot believe that he couldn't follow either. In conclusion I don't believe anything!

One solution for Movistar problems is banning the radios!

 

[carton]

Good show. Sorry to miss most of it. Well done to Jack "Gerro" Haig, way to ride smart and use his team. Really dissapointed with Superman waving the white flag. A little disapointed with Mas as well, but when Ineos set the cat among the pigeons it's often the savvier riders and not the braver ones who take advantage. Mas played it right.