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Vuelta a España 2022: Pre-race discussion/hype tread

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Jan the Man

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very difficult race to call from a GC perspective.

I expect Almeida will be very strong. Carapaz too although he has not ridden much since Giro. Hindley should be there or there abouts if he has giro form and if he is actually entering with GC ambitions (i don’t know as plausibly Higuita could be designated Bora leaser). Who knows about Roglic given lack of
Training.

Mas is unknown but has disappointed this year.

Then you have the young guns in Remco, Carlos Rodriguez and Ayuso who will want to prove their GC capabilities(to varying degrees of expectation).
 
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hill

hill

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Sure, but i think we can all agree that Evenepoel is not just ''considering someone top GT favourite because of winning few one week races without GT level competition''. First of all, he beat GT level competition, i have no idea why people keep acting as if beating Carapaz, Landa, Gaudu, Lopez, Roglic, Kelderman, Vingegaard, Yates, Hart... are all nobodies when it comes to GT's. Because he has beaten all of them in GC races, most more than once. Secondly, i think what he has shown throughout his short career is proof that he is an extraordinary talent, and not just another guy who just can get results in small races. Two WCC and two ECC ITT medals, from the age of 19 onward, shows he has a huge engine. Youngest winner of Liège since the late 1960's by telling everyone smell ya later. Two entries at Classica, two wins in dominating fashion.

The problem is that every time he doesn't perform, people take it as evidence that he can't do it. While every time he succeeds, he still has everything to prove. But when other riders finish 20 minutes down, the same does not apply and they remain contenders. Regardless, i agree he still has to show it in a GT, but acting as if the potential is not there is simply stupid.
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For riders like Carapaz, Vingegaard or Landa certainly isn't the goal of the season winning a one week race so beating them there doesn't mean much for me. And the stages at one week races where Remco is good aren't super hard mountain stages but hilly classics like stages (I don't count the Tour of Norway mtf because there wasn't GT level competition). In GTs however, much more time is gained/lost in the hard mountains and that isn't a terrain where Remco has most of his achievments from. I certainly believe that he is able to win a GT in the future but currently there is no evidence for considering him a big favourite.
 
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tobydawq

tobydawq

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Jan the Man said:
very difficult race to call from a GC perspective.

I expect Almeida will be very strong. Carapaz too although he has not ridden much since Giro. Hindley should be there or there abouts if he has giro form and if he is actually entering with GC ambitions (i don’t know as plausibly Higuita could be designated Bora leaser). Who knows about Roglic given lack of
Training.

Mas is unknown but has disappointed this year.

Then you have the young guns in Remco, Carlos Rodriguez and Ayuso who will want to prove their GC capabilities(to varying degrees of expectation).
Click to expand...

Itzulia? Which is not really fair to count but he did do it.
 
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Bonimenier

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CyclistAbi said:
Isn't there already a Remco thread? Seriously. This Remco fans are worse then Roglič fans.

P.S. When did Remco beat Rogla on a stage race?
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Roglic only beat Remco in stage races in the first 4 months of Remco's career. Since then Roglic finished behind Remco 100% of the times.

In name of the whole forum I would like to apologize for not talking about Roglic in every single post.
 
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Ilmaestro99

Ilmaestro99

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Bonimenier said:
Roglic only beat Remco in stage races in the first 4 months of Remco's career. Since then Roglic finished behind Remco 100% of the times.

In name of the whole forum I would like to apologize for not talking about Roglic in every single post.
Click to expand...
Also, in the last 12 months, Masnada has beaten Roglic in every world tour race when the competeted against each other
 
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staubsauger

staubsauger

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Sure, but i think we can all agree that Evenepoel is not just ''considering someone top GT favourite because of winning few one week races without GT level competition''. First of all, he beat GT level competition, i have no idea why people keep acting as if beating Carapaz, Landa, Gaudu, Lopez, Roglic, Kelderman, Vingegaard, Yates, Hart... are all nobodies when it comes to GT's. Because he has beaten all of them in GC races, most more than once. Secondly, i think what he has shown throughout his short career is proof that he is an extraordinary talent, and not just another guy who just can get results in small races. Two WCC and two ECC ITT medals, from the age of 19 onward, shows he has a huge engine. Youngest winner of Liège since the late 1960's by telling everyone smell ya later. Two entries at Classica, two wins in dominating fashion.

The problem is that every time he doesn't perform, people take it as evidence that he can't do it. While every time he succeeds, he still has everything to prove. But when other riders finish 20 minutes down, the same does not apply and they remain contenders. Regardless, i agree he still has to show it in a GT, but acting as if the potential is not there is simply stupid.


Pushing watts over a certain period has little to do with the opposition, or when exactly in the season you push them. If it is during training or during prep, 6.5W/kg over 30 minutes is pushing 6.5w/kg over 30 minutes. Doesn't matter if it's in the Tour or in Langkawi. Your ridiculous description of his performance in Itzulia (where his rivals were actually working together against him) is quite telling of the agenda you are trying to push here. If you are annoyed, you are doing it to yourself.
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Huh? Of course it has. There's a whole lot more of physical and psychical stress in the big races and they're much more demanding physical and psychical than at a race like Algarve where parts of the race are like a cycling tour for the pros.
 
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KZD

KZD

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hill said:
For riders like Carapaz, Vingegaard or Landa certainly isn't the goal of the season winning a one week race so beating them there doesn't mean much for me. And the stages at one week races where Remco is good aren't super hard mountain stages but hilly classics like stages (I don't count the Tour of Norway mtf because there wasn't GT level competition). In GTs however, much more time is gained/lost in the hard mountains and that isn't a terrain where Remco has most of his achievments from. I certainly believe that he is able to win a GT in the future but currently there is no evidence for considering him a big favourite.
Click to expand...

And since when were those one-week races a goal for Remco? He has a winner's mentality so obviosuly tries to win as much as he can but he said from the beginning of the season that their main goals were Liège for the first half and the Vuelta for the second half and we all know what happened in Liège.
 
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Big Doopie

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If we get the best Remco throughout three weeks this will not be close. When Remco wins he dominates frankly like no other rider.

However stringing together three weeks of his best is very much in doubt.

My prediction: he either crushes all opposition or he is outside the top ten. I dream of the first (as GT competition will then be epic for the coming decade), but I fear the latter most likely.
 
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Kaptain Kool

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hill

hill

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KZD said:
And since when were those one-week races a goal for Remco? He has a winner's mentality so obviosuly tries to win as much as he can but he said from the beginning of the season that their main goals were Liège for the first half and the Vuelta for the second half and we all know what happened in Liège.
Click to expand...
I didn't say that he peaked, but I understand that it might have sounded like that. My point was that the conditions in which Remco beaten these riders just aren't comparable to GTs.
 
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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CyclistAbi said:
Isn't there already a Remco thread? Seriously. This Remco fans are worse then Roglič fans.

P.S. When did Remco beat Rogla on a stage race?
Click to expand...
I assume it was somewhat of a joke considering you are a Roglic fan, but it weren't the Remco fans that started this debate.
By the way, Roglic is old news, who cares. That's like beating Nibali. Vingegaard is the reference now.
Also, beating Roglic when he is injured/recovering, is very much fair game considering A/ Roglic is always injured, so it is basically impossible to beat him when he is not injured, and B/ when Evenepoel doesn't perform after injury or physical issues, it also seems to count.

hill said:
I didn't say that he peaked, but I understand that it might have sounded like that. My point was that the conditions in which Remco beaten these riders just aren't comparable to GTs.
Click to expand...
Neither is it for who wins or podiums TA or PN for instance. Unless you think Van Aert or Soler would be getting on the podium of a GT anytime soon. Hart has only 1 GC win. The Giro. In one week races he is a non-factor more often than not. Based on his 1 week results, Hart will never win a GT... except that he already did.
 
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pman

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I think this race means more to Patrick Lafevere. Quickstep has always excelled at having a team identity and sticking to it. Remco has thrown that for a curve. Are they classics team? Are they a team building around a young GC rider? They don't have the budget of an Ineos or Jumbo so they have to make choices. While Remco is teetering on the edge of being a GC guy, Quickstep is kind of losing the focus on what made them so great. Remco could make Patrick's life a lot easier if he shows once and for all that he is a GC guy. However if he fades Quickstep will probably stay in limbo because you can't write off the ambitions of someone Remco's age. Anyway, between that and the teams chasing points, this Vuelta is as important to the teams as any in recent memory.
 
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